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Watching the racing today on replay simply highlighted to me that the standard of riding and simple acts of jockeyship are simply beyond most modern day riders on both the flat and jumps. The main gripe I have is the consistency of their riding, its up and down like a yo-yo. Take the likes of Spencer and Fanning in particular look highly competent at times and then 30 mins later throw in an absolute stinker. Sam Twiston Davies today on Frascati Park was sadly totally inept, he was on the one known stayer, faffed about and then the inevitable accident waiting to happen and fell off. Even some of the best young riders around are hopelessly inconsistent, tonights ride on Karate by Nicole Nordblad was I am sad to say absolutely shocking and yet she has ridden some decent races on the AW this winter.
There is simply way too much racing which is allowing incredibly average jockeys to earn a decent living, where 30 years ago they wouldnt have been able to do that on 50 rides a season.
In terms of jockeyship less really would mean more has the cream would rise to the top and they would then have to work incredibly hard to stay there. I really fear for the standards in the next 20 years as the best riders bar none are over jumps close to retirement and on the flat all north of 40..................... it really is very poor and very sad, as how I wish I could take my nephew to watch a Piggott, Cauthen, or even an Eddery or Carson, this present lot are abysmal.
There is simply way too much racing which is allowing incredibly average jockeys to earn a decent living, where 30 years ago they wouldnt have been able to do that on 50 rides a season.
In terms of jockeyship less really would mean more has the cream would rise to the top and they would then have to work incredibly hard to stay there. I really fear for the standards in the next 20 years as the best riders bar none are over jumps close to retirement and on the flat all north of 40..................... it really is very poor and very sad, as how I wish I could take my nephew to watch a Piggott, Cauthen, or even an Eddery or Carson, this present lot are abysmal.
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On a brighter note i think the general standard of moaning/whining/complaining/blubbering has improved markedly since the advent of the Betfair Forum
With the whole of the flat season ahead of us the moaning, whinging and whining can only intensify.
I would say a high % of these "bad rides" are good rides for some...if you want Adam Kirby to finish in a certain position...he can do that.
As for the (lack of) "consistency of their riding"
They are, of course, NOT riding horses of EQUAL ABILITY every ride -
Nor, has ANY jockey riding in the past 100 years enjoyed such a scenario...
- So to say they are 'good on one, and awful on another' - is not so simple a comparison.
Thankfully, the new Whip Rules restrictions - most especially on the FLAT - have saved us from an even greater 'falling of Standards' ... as they cannot now copy their American Cousins, anymore. .......
Like yourself, herbington, I really had got utterly sick of watching them all start 'riding a finish' THREE furlongs, and more, from home .... and, WORSE STILL - these YOUNGER Jockeys transfering that style to the TURF
- only resulting in 'Last Man Standing' finishes, and races.
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I agree, that there simply does not appear to be any 'Class Jockeys' around nowadays - Just 'Journeymen Jockeys', by comparison to some of the greats of yesteryear.
However - When I watch the Australian racing, at night on ATR - I am continually struck by the consistency of jockeys like Nash Rawiller ....
- and, also, how virtually ALL the horses appear to run 'straight and true' - without wandering all over the course, as they often do here - even at the much lower-grade tracks, and ridden by, consequent, 'lower-grade' jockeys, too.
Their horses all appear to be far better behaved than a lot of our mottley mob at such as Wolverhampton and Southwell.... Perhaps there IS something to be learned there.
It really is refreshing to watch racing as it USED to be HERE -
and as it SHOULD be, NOW.
They are, of course, NOT riding horses of EQUAL ABILITY every ride -
Nor, has ANY jockey riding in the past 100 years enjoyed such a scenario...
- So to say they are 'good on one, and awful on another' - is not so simple a comparison.
Thankfully, the new Whip Rules restrictions - most especially on the FLAT - have saved us from an even greater 'falling of Standards' ... as they cannot now copy their American Cousins, anymore. .......
Like yourself, herbington, I really had got utterly sick of watching them all start 'riding a finish' THREE furlongs, and more, from home .... and, WORSE STILL - these YOUNGER Jockeys transfering that style to the TURF
- only resulting in 'Last Man Standing' finishes, and races.
------------------------------------
I agree, that there simply does not appear to be any 'Class Jockeys' around nowadays - Just 'Journeymen Jockeys', by comparison to some of the greats of yesteryear.
However - When I watch the Australian racing, at night on ATR - I am continually struck by the consistency of jockeys like Nash Rawiller ....
- and, also, how virtually ALL the horses appear to run 'straight and true' - without wandering all over the course, as they often do here - even at the much lower-grade tracks, and ridden by, consequent, 'lower-grade' jockeys, too.
Their horses all appear to be far better behaved than a lot of our mottley mob at such as Wolverhampton and Southwell.... Perhaps there IS something to be learned there.
It really is refreshing to watch racing as it USED to be HERE -
and as it SHOULD be, NOW.
totally right herb....just look no further than dundalk 2nite.....some of these lads masquarading as jockies is a total embarassment to be honest....
interesting observation onlooker, watching Kinnane on Saturday, the fluency, the economy of movement with everything in sync. Agree, the standard, especially on the all-weather looks poor to me, but it is a tough profession to break into if a kid isn't from a particular background, the pool they can draw from is small so it is probably normal to expect mixed abilities. I'm too young to remember the jocks of yesteryear, but I'm certain there are plenty of bad ones around today.
Not to be all negative though, I've been really impressed with hanigan so far this year.
Not to be all negative though, I've been really impressed with hanigan so far this year.
William Buick one of the best today imo but with the a/w and low grade racing there are a lot of poor horses that still have to be ridden that would make even Lester Piggot look bad!
Buick is a fine young horseman and potentially top drawer. His ride in the King George last year in particular made Moore look what he is a one dimentional pillock and young O'Brien totally inept. My worry for Buick is that for every decent season Gosden can have, he follows it with a stinker in terms of quality and that harms the stable jockey.
As for Hanagan, I remain to be convinced, decent jockey but not top drawer for me, I may be wrong.
As for Hanagan, I remain to be convinced, decent jockey but not top drawer for me, I may be wrong.
The standard is no better of worse than it's ever been it's just that when you go back and cherry pick the good ones from the past, you ignore all of the not so good ones at the time too.
The only thing I will say is that with wall to wall racing today that the strain it puts on jockeys compared to previous eras is a lot more intense and although fit sportsmen and women, they are still always likely to make errors through physical and mental fatigue and their riding at times will suffer as a result of that.
The raising of the minimum weight a few times and the 9 meetings a week maximum rules have and will help but there's still plenty of travelling, early mornings and late nights and tight schedules to contended with that all have a bearing on things.
The only thing I will say is that with wall to wall racing today that the strain it puts on jockeys compared to previous eras is a lot more intense and although fit sportsmen and women, they are still always likely to make errors through physical and mental fatigue and their riding at times will suffer as a result of that.
The raising of the minimum weight a few times and the 9 meetings a week maximum rules have and will help but there's still plenty of travelling, early mornings and late nights and tight schedules to contended with that all have a bearing on things.
IMA
In my heyday of watching racing there was
Piggott
Cauthen
Eddery
Carson
Mercer
Today we have
Dettori
Moore
Hanagan
Spencer
De Souza
I would suggest that the first group mentioned would ride the bottom lot to sleep with the honourable exception of Dettori when he can be bothered.
Ryan Moore is lauded but he is a one dimentional jockey with a awful tactical brain. When have you ever seen Moore ride one from the front and dominate a race, he is frightened jockey. For my money (and I dont buy the injury rubbish) is ride on Workforce last year was the worst I have ever seen it was totally and utterly weak and inept, a tactical error that none of the 5 jockeys from the past I mention would have ever made on an experienced animal they knew stayed.
In my heyday of watching racing there was
Piggott
Cauthen
Eddery
Carson
Mercer
Today we have
Dettori
Moore
Hanagan
Spencer
De Souza
I would suggest that the first group mentioned would ride the bottom lot to sleep with the honourable exception of Dettori when he can be bothered.
Ryan Moore is lauded but he is a one dimentional jockey with a awful tactical brain. When have you ever seen Moore ride one from the front and dominate a race, he is frightened jockey. For my money (and I dont buy the injury rubbish) is ride on Workforce last year was the worst I have ever seen it was totally and utterly weak and inept, a tactical error that none of the 5 jockeys from the past I mention would have ever made on an experienced animal they knew stayed.
But the thing is herblington you are picking 5 jockeys in the first list that cover a much longer timespan compared to the second at about 40+ years as opposed to 25, plus Hanagan and De Souza are at about the same stage of their careers as Fallon (a glaring omission from either of your lists btw lol) was when he first got the Cecil job and look at what he went on to achieve, so you're not really comparing like with like and both or them and Moore are also likely to add many further big race wins to their careers too.
On another note, there was nothing wrong with Moore's ride on Workforce in the KG and he sat a little off the pace just as he did in his Derby and Arc wins and when Nathaniel went passed the pacemaker Moore went with him and was almost upsides until WF started hanging. You can see Moore pull his right rein out to try to straighten the horse and gets almost upsides again until his horse starts hanging again and he has to pull his whip through and he still hangs and so has to finally put both hands on the reins and the alarming cross course drift cost them more than the horse was beaten by.
On another note, there was nothing wrong with Moore's ride on Workforce in the KG and he sat a little off the pace just as he did in his Derby and Arc wins and when Nathaniel went passed the pacemaker Moore went with him and was almost upsides until WF started hanging. You can see Moore pull his right rein out to try to straighten the horse and gets almost upsides again until his horse starts hanging again and he has to pull his whip through and he still hangs and so has to finally put both hands on the reins and the alarming cross course drift cost them more than the horse was beaten by.
IMA
I think we prove whats great about racing 2 people can see the same race in completely different ways.
As for Fallon I left him off my list because he sort of spanned the period between the era I mention and the present day. I actually agree with you and in my opinion Fallon is the 3rd best jockey I have ever seen riding, the go to man when you were in the soup. In fact Fallon now is probably better than anything out there when he is on his A game.
I think we prove whats great about racing 2 people can see the same race in completely different ways.
As for Fallon I left him off my list because he sort of spanned the period between the era I mention and the present day. I actually agree with you and in my opinion Fallon is the 3rd best jockey I have ever seen riding, the go to man when you were in the soup. In fact Fallon now is probably better than anything out there when he is on his A game.
jocks of today are of a much higher standard imo.
We see every race from a number of angles so are able to analyse, something that we were unable to do in the past.
And, of course today there is Betfair.
We see every race from a number of angles so are able to analyse, something that we were unable to do in the past.
And, of course today there is Betfair.
Agreed Aberdonia..........Steve even better than Lester.
Stewarty b........lets the argument down a bit with the modern Jocks though.
Stewarty b........lets the argument down a bit with the modern Jocks though.
Aberdonia
BY rating Cauthen you prove your worth, tactical genius in the saddle and a joy to watch. rarely went for the stick full cry because he had paced the race to perfection, they said he had a clock in his head and I dont doubt it. the likes of moore, hanagan and co can only dream of riding like cauthen, but in defence of the modern lot I do think given the right opportunities SDS could be the next best thing to cauthen has he does ride some super races from the front, really gets a horse into a nice rhythm.
BY rating Cauthen you prove your worth, tactical genius in the saddle and a joy to watch. rarely went for the stick full cry because he had paced the race to perfection, they said he had a clock in his head and I dont doubt it. the likes of moore, hanagan and co can only dream of riding like cauthen, but in defence of the modern lot I do think given the right opportunities SDS could be the next best thing to cauthen has he does ride some super races from the front, really gets a horse into a nice rhythm.
His ride on Reference Point in the derby was a masterclass.
negativity
noun: pessimism, cynicism, unwillingness, antagonism, contrariness, uncooperativeness, gloom I hate negativity - I can't stand people who moan all the time.
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
noun: pessimism, cynicism, unwillingness, antagonism, contrariness, uncooperativeness, gloom I hate negativity - I can't stand people who moan all the time.
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
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