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http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racings-100m-windfall-after-court-ruling-20120330-1w22x.html
The NSW thoroughbred racing industry is set to reap a $100 million bonanza following a ruling handed down this morning by the High Court.
The High Court, in dismissing an appeal by corporate bookmakers Betfair and Sportsbet, ruled that all wagering operators taking bets on races in this state must pay Racing NSW 1.5 per cent of turnover under the state governments racefield legislation.
For around four years Racing NSW has been collecting 1.5 per cent from on-course and off-course wagering operators. It has accumulated the $100 million mentioned above, but while the matter was being played out in court the money hasn't been injected into the industry.
Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys said the decision could result in a further $40 to $50 million a year being collected for the industry after the High Court ruled Sportsbet and Betfair had to pay the racefields fee..
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racings-100m-windfall-after-court-ruling-20120330-1w22x.html#ixzz1qYiEhSvr
Sportsbet and Betfair both believed paying a percentage of gross profits was the way to go.
The two launched separate legal action some four years ago and it went all the way to the High Court.
Major sporting organisation like the NRL, AFL and Cricket Australia will no doubt be keen to follow the Racing NSW lead. These bodies have agreements in place that allow wagering operators to return a percentage of gross profit.
The NSW thoroughbred racing industry is set to reap a $100 million bonanza following a ruling handed down this morning by the High Court.
The High Court, in dismissing an appeal by corporate bookmakers Betfair and Sportsbet, ruled that all wagering operators taking bets on races in this state must pay Racing NSW 1.5 per cent of turnover under the state governments racefield legislation.
For around four years Racing NSW has been collecting 1.5 per cent from on-course and off-course wagering operators. It has accumulated the $100 million mentioned above, but while the matter was being played out in court the money hasn't been injected into the industry.
Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys said the decision could result in a further $40 to $50 million a year being collected for the industry after the High Court ruled Sportsbet and Betfair had to pay the racefields fee..
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racings-100m-windfall-after-court-ruling-20120330-1w22x.html#ixzz1qYiEhSvr
Sportsbet and Betfair both believed paying a percentage of gross profits was the way to go.
The two launched separate legal action some four years ago and it went all the way to the High Court.
Major sporting organisation like the NRL, AFL and Cricket Australia will no doubt be keen to follow the Racing NSW lead. These bodies have agreements in place that allow wagering operators to return a percentage of gross profit.
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will give the government food for thought with their intention to tax bets at source next year
If it`s only NSW won`t BF just stop offering markets at courses in that State ?
the other states will follow if they see NSW getting lots of dough
It was a high court decision, i.e as high as you can go in australia. If other states want to impose fee they can and it will be legal based on this ruling.
the sooner we get some similar regulation here the better then we can promote a strong on course with lower take out and get the rings back some credibility
nothings forever, change is imminent. IT WONT BE LONG NOW
nothings forever, change is imminent. IT WONT BE LONG NOW
barry, please explain what you think the changes will be and how
you think they might affect those who bet on this exchange.
you think they might affect those who bet on this exchange.
wee eck, the recent budget gave notice of intending to tax bets at source, to commence in 2013, all off-shore bookmakers will be required to pay a tax on bets sourced from the UK, This NSW decision to charge one and half % turnover tax, if applied to UK sourced bets would not be sustainable
Barry, is your last post one you made this morning or a copy and paste from 2004? Thanks in advance.
barry "sourced bets would not be sustainable" what does that mean or imply?
gerard, govt. wheels turn very slowly, but get there in the end.
wee eck, if I placed a bet with an off-shore bookmaker they would be liable to pay a fee.
In this country bets as such haven`t been taxed for many years,though of course most of us are old enough to remember when they were. British firms have gone offshore to avoid paying GB Corporation Tax and to a lesser extent the Levy. Both of these are based on profits not turnover.
barry that if true would eat or erode this Exchanges profits hugely I would imagine
Salmon, exactly but NSW have rejected profits tax in favour of turnover tax, our Govt would take note.
barry if the NSW resulted in betfair abandoning their operations in Australia
surely the UK government would take note.
surely the UK government would take note.
wee eck losing betfairs contributions to UK coffers is a p*** in the ocean
barry is a guaranteed half a loaf not better than no loaf at all?
Its a bitter disappointment for BF and sporting exchanges generally for a fellow member of our ex empire and commonwealth to not UNDERSTAND THAT EXCHANGES ARE NOT BOOKMAKERS BUT A MARGINAL BUSINESS THAT CANNOT PAY 1.5% ON TURNOVER ON A 2-5% RAKE ON TURNOVER .
Why on earth now is our money going to Australian horse racing when our HBA would of been better recieving it, its just not fair .
Its hard to see BF getting far with the US goverment or the Australian because deep down both countries are still bittter that they have our red , white and blue in there flags nad betting pioneers arent switching anything extra on in their temperal lobes , present or missing.
Is the Australin goverment basically saying that had BF customers not played on an exchange about ossie race results we would of gone to thier tracks as such a notion would be a trully foolish one and all it proves is that certain goverments and racing bodies are extremely ring-fenced and greedy.
Any tax or levey system that renders a business unprofitable by being to high has to be an unfair tax that is based on older buiness practices and unhelpful to new and contempary ones and in fact certain tax regimes i the past have led to our own indusrty being taken apart literally by foreign competition , we all now count this legacy by paying stealth taxes to prop up the missing indusrty taxes.
Do emerging coutries like the tiger economies buinesses pay such taxes?
Do emerging coutries like the tiger economies buinesses pay such taxes?
If that is The barrie Dennis then any betfarians at lingfield wave your mobile betfair apps in front of him today and just like Agencore let him know we are still alive and fighting fit.
Some of you brits are very uneducated on this topic, which is understandable. But it's much less understandable to see comments from people who are clueless.
Firslty, this isn't a tax. The money goes to racing nsw which pumps it back into the racing industry, it has nothing to do with the government. It's a very popular decision among racing circles in Australia.
Secondly, this wasn't a court case to decide whether or not betfair should start paying. It was an appeal by betfair and also corporate bookmakers against an original decision made in 2006 which said they had to pay it.
The totaliser's in each state pay the turnover fee and betfair/corporates have been paying since 2006 and little to no impact will be felt by punters in australia.
You can say what you like about Australian horses, but the fact is the financial state of australian racing (and australia in general
) craps all over the UK.
Firslty, this isn't a tax. The money goes to racing nsw which pumps it back into the racing industry, it has nothing to do with the government. It's a very popular decision among racing circles in Australia.
Secondly, this wasn't a court case to decide whether or not betfair should start paying. It was an appeal by betfair and also corporate bookmakers against an original decision made in 2006 which said they had to pay it.
The totaliser's in each state pay the turnover fee and betfair/corporates have been paying since 2006 and little to no impact will be felt by punters in australia.
You can say what you like about Australian horses, but the fact is the financial state of australian racing (and australia in general
) craps all over the UK.
well said tommyjone, shame that here they have been able to avoid paying the levy here by simply shipping themselves offshore whilst also avoid UK tax....at least this has finally now been changed in the recent budget but it's about time something was done to ensure a fair contribution to British racing from the major benefactors of the industry.
Wrong tommyjone the British economy is still one of the biggest in the world and far way in front of Australia who cant even beat the burnt out Spain 
1 United States 14,637,661
2 China 5,767,346n2
3 Japan 5,567,898
4 Germany 3,397,562
5 France 2,673,853
6 United Kingdom 2,140,108
7 Brazil 2,080,203
8 Italy 2,044,003
9 India 1,843,382
10 Canada 1,566,030
11 Russia 1,489,936
12 Spain 1,409,946
13 Australia 1,237,363
14 Mexico 1,034,308
15 Korea, South 1,014,482
16 Netherlands 780,668
17 Turkey 735,487
1 United States 14,637,661
2 China 5,767,346n2
3 Japan 5,567,898
4 Germany 3,397,562
5 France 2,673,853
6 United Kingdom 2,140,108
7 Brazil 2,080,203
8 Italy 2,044,003
9 India 1,843,382
10 Canada 1,566,030
11 Russia 1,489,936
12 Spain 1,409,946
13 Australia 1,237,363
14 Mexico 1,034,308
15 Korea, South 1,014,482
16 Netherlands 780,668
17 Turkey 735,487
For our size we are probably still the best overall performer mate!
No response to the racing side of things?
And just on that, we have a third of your people. Although I do believe your figures are in nominal and not PPP, we're produce about 5k more per capita in PPP. Of course GDP isn't the only measure of wealth and current prosperity either, but I disgress.
And just on that, we have a third of your people. Although I do believe your figures are in nominal and not PPP, we're produce about 5k more per capita in PPP. Of course GDP isn't the only measure of wealth and current prosperity either, but I disgress.
Along with germany and france that is and in fact the celtic countries are by far the best in the world , even Juleus Ceasur wanted so despaeratly to seize and steal the well established iron foundries of the Gauls for the roman empire , who would of thought that Germany, britain and france would one day of ruled so much of the known world!
Ok well I can see this conversation is at an end 
Point is, the high court ruling will be good for racing in Australia. The UK really needs to sort some stuff out and not rely on the shiek so much.
Point is, the high court ruling will be good for racing in Australia. The UK really needs to sort some stuff out and not rely on the shiek so much.
It isnt batfair that is starving our racing industry but the stranglehold that the Big Bookmakers have on them and the use of casino style FOBT machines to give them leverage
to pay less racing levy, betfair being noted as operating under different profit margins doesnt have to pay a levey but pays a contribution anyway but certain goverments overseas reckon we can afford to pay like a bookmaker becasue they are ignorant and selfish and typical of all loud mouthed australins I have had the displeasure of meeting.
to pay less racing levy, betfair being noted as operating under different profit margins doesnt have to pay a levey but pays a contribution anyway but certain goverments overseas reckon we can afford to pay like a bookmaker becasue they are ignorant and selfish and typical of all loud mouthed australins I have had the displeasure of meeting.
Betfair can afford to pay it, they've been paying it since 2006 in Australia and so have all the corporate bookmakers. So do the totalisers.
It works fine.
It works fine.
We shall have to see about that wont we but thanks for not respecting a buissness that is trying to be fair and throwing it in with all the other companies that can afford it becasue they are unfair and greedy.
When Chaina opens up to gambling which they love then they will choose Betfair and not crusty old bookmakers that live in the pockets of atiquated goverments.
Tommy what is good for wealthy racehorse owners is bad for punters. Betfair has helped many people make money whether its for a living or extra money. A tax on turnover would mean a return to the days when you could only bet "for fun "
lets hope China doesn't have some tax haven like Gibraltar when this "fair" business you mention moves into the market. Fortunately I don't think China are such mugs to allow these unfair business practices to happen in the first place.
bf they will choose exchange betting but i would be confident which firm will price themselves out even if they were asked in the first place.
Mar 30, 2012 -- 1:26PM, tommyjone wrote:
Some of you brits are very uneducated on this topic, which is understandable. But it's much less understandable to see comments from people who are clueless.Firslty, this isn't a tax. The money goes to racing nsw which pumps it back into the racing industry, it has nothing to do with the government. It's a very popular decision among racing circles in Australia.Secondly, this wasn't a court case to decide whether or not betfair should start paying. It was an appeal by betfair and also corporate bookmakers against an original decision made in 2006 which said they had to pay it.The totaliser's in each state pay the turnover fee and betfair/corporates have been paying since 2006 and little to no impact will be felt by punters in australia. You can say what you like about Australian horses, but the fact is the financial state of australian racing (and australia in general ) craps all over the UK.
obv if they are sucking the life out of punters, the leeches will be squirming in happiness. But the fact of the matter is that gross profit taxes encourage competition and gross turnover taxes limit competition.
Why do buissness men/women and compaines have to go to tax exiles in the first place?
Because host countries have not always allowed buinssess and persons too florish but preffered
to grind them down which can mean they cant grow or survive and why should buissnesses that are successful have to continually pay for ineffective goverments that make poor hsitorecal decisions that effect us all.
Because host countries have not always allowed buinssess and persons too florish but preffered
to grind them down which can mean they cant grow or survive and why should buissnesses that are successful have to continually pay for ineffective goverments that make poor hsitorecal decisions that effect us all.
Bookmakers have actually warned that the new taxation could mean the loss of many jobs and outlets so how will this move help the general gambling industry at all!
ITs those in power making decisions to take money from those in profit, plain and simple and the loss of jobs is what mostly the uk goverment is best at doing and will continue to do until it learns the hard way.
And too the Aussie posters, next time you send a super horse over here that is probably been sponsered by us make sure it can win a race and not flop like the last one you sent over please
What a grotesque ruling.
It creates a false incentive to scratch-trade or even risk trading at a tick loss for non-recreational industry interests. It will make prices worse for punters and protect state-assisted monopolies.
I can't see a turnover tax coming back in this country, though, so long as the govt. wants Britain to be a world-leader in betting.
It creates a false incentive to scratch-trade or even risk trading at a tick loss for non-recreational industry interests. It will make prices worse for punters and protect state-assisted monopolies.
I can't see a turnover tax coming back in this country, though, so long as the govt. wants Britain to be a world-leader in betting.
I cant see this geoverment or the last being unfair too exchanges as the British love new and great ideas as history has proven and the rest of the world still looks up to us as a fair nation.
Askari hope youre right. Maybe of all things the FOBTs will save us.
The ignorance is unbelievable. They've been paying it since 2006 for god's sake. It hasn't affected anything in 6 years. Racing NSW has been saving the money up in case the decision went the other way, they have about $100 million Australian they're going to invest now. Anyone who thinks it only favours "rich horse owners" is crazy. In australia horses are often owned by people from all over the place, it's not britain where every horse is owned by ballydoyle or godolphin. And also it helps out trainers and everyone else involved in the industry and most of all it helps to keep the industry viable.
The totalisers in Australia aren't state run either. They've been privatised for years.
No matter who you are in australia, a totaliser, an exchange or a corporate you pay NSW racing to use their fields.
If you seriously think this means you can only bet for fun then you need to get your head examined. The totaliser odds and on course aren't far off bet fair anyway.
The totalisers in Australia aren't state run either. They've been privatised for years.
No matter who you are in australia, a totaliser, an exchange or a corporate you pay NSW racing to use their fields.
If you seriously think this means you can only bet for fun then you need to get your head examined. The totaliser odds and on course aren't far off bet fair anyway.
tommyjone - your ignorance is unbelievable. Turnover taxes by definition build in a minimum margin thus stifling competition. Gross profit taxes allow the market to set the margin.
I'm perfectly aware of what it does. Just because a gross profit tax will return slightly better margins to punters does not make it a better option. Not everything has to be in the name of the free market.
We would receive slightly better margins yes, at least I think we would. But it doesn't mean the industry would be viable, efficiency is not fairness. And in this case it's not even sustainable long term, racing NSW needs money to keep the racing industry thriving.
We would receive slightly better margins yes, at least I think we would. But it doesn't mean the industry would be viable, efficiency is not fairness. And in this case it's not even sustainable long term, racing NSW needs money to keep the racing industry thriving.
bf_fananatic
Wrong tommyjone the British economy is still one of the biggest in the world and far way in front of Australia who cant even beat the burnt out Spain
6 United Kingdom 2,140,108
13 Australia 1,237,363
Can you strip out government spending, money printing and the effect of negative real interest rates?
Cheers.
Wrong tommyjone the British economy is still one of the biggest in the world and far way in front of Australia who cant even beat the burnt out Spain
6 United Kingdom 2,140,108
13 Australia 1,237,363
Can you strip out government spending, money printing and the effect of negative real interest rates?
Cheers.
I'm just wondering how much btfr pay guys like the fantasist to write this stuff on this forum? 
Racing needs a strong betting ring and not those who profit from laying known non-triers or horses that have already fallen.
As for the stuff about the "red, white and blue", I'd say that at least half of all Australians would wish this legacy of past masters was not in their flag. You will note that the national colours of her sportsmen are more like the green and gold of another well-known horseracing country.
And, though I have no idea what the figures listed are supposed to be, I could see not a single Celtic country in your list, despit your saying that we do best of the lot!
Btw, those who are on the run from Irish jurisdiction are the very dodgers who broke our land by their greedy antics.
So, all in all, I have to say that I cannot take much heed of your posts, Mr bf fantasist. Sorry, but it strikes me as way off the mark.
I'm only a humble course punter who realises that I need bookmakers ON course.
Racing needs a strong betting ring and not those who profit from laying known non-triers or horses that have already fallen.
As for the stuff about the "red, white and blue", I'd say that at least half of all Australians would wish this legacy of past masters was not in their flag. You will note that the national colours of her sportsmen are more like the green and gold of another well-known horseracing country.
And, though I have no idea what the figures listed are supposed to be, I could see not a single Celtic country in your list, despit your saying that we do best of the lot!
Btw, those who are on the run from Irish jurisdiction are the very dodgers who broke our land by their greedy antics.
So, all in all, I have to say that I cannot take much heed of your posts, Mr bf fantasist. Sorry, but it strikes me as way off the mark.
I'm only a humble course punter who realises that I need bookmakers ON course.
Does 1.5% of Betfair's turnover equate to 60% of their profits?
Does 1.5% of Betfair's turnover equate to 60% of their profits?
Sean rua the Celts where not just the few stuck in Ireland or the north of Scotland that speak Celtic but all the tribes of iron age Europe from the fore-mentioned through uk France and Germany, the romans never ventured to Ireland and cared not for constant fighting with pics hence Hadrians wall.
The positive Legacy of invading empires is the infra-structure and culture that is left behind or adopted hence the part reason for these countries peoples bouncing back in the dark ages to become far greater than there mentors.America and Australia have been lucky also by this process
and have Education systems, language and law systems identical to the UK .
Many people only believe in what suits them and don't make impartial observations from all the data available, rather like the persons working in the law courts in this exchange beating case.
The positive Legacy of invading empires is the infra-structure and culture that is left behind or adopted hence the part reason for these countries peoples bouncing back in the dark ages to become far greater than there mentors.America and Australia have been lucky also by this process
and have Education systems, language and law systems identical to the UK .
Many people only believe in what suits them and don't make impartial observations from all the data available, rather like the persons working in the law courts in this exchange beating case.
Ameraca is even more hard lined with its gambling firms and citizens and bans them from even having a bet on-line to suit them collecting huge taxs from any fortunate winner.
There taxation and the Australians skimming for its own racing are not good policies towards fair play.
There taxation and the Australians skimming for its own racing are not good policies towards fair play.
It amazes me how little americans and Ausrtalians Know about history and perhaps they dont like it becasue they only have a few centurys to look at and the british may pop up in their school lessons
I'm just wondering how much btfr pay guys like the fantasist to write this stuff on this forum?
It's pathetic, isn't it?
If he isn't paid, then it takes one serious mug to come on here and talk about how BF are treated 'unfairly' and the various other shyte, day after day after day.
It's pathetic, isn't it?
If he isn't paid, then it takes one serious mug to come on here and talk about how BF are treated 'unfairly' and the various other shyte, day after day after day.
Today, Australian Gambling Authorities confirm betting exchanges will be taxed 1.1/2% on turnover, how will they absorb these charges or just accept defeat.
tommyjone,
Has Australian racing improved over the years, from the prize persective? I'm Irish and I recollect Pat Glennon and Garney Bogoure (spelling?) coming over from Australia to ride for Vincent O'Brien in the 60s, for the money I assume. Has the Aussie racing business improved financially from those days?
Has Australian racing improved over the years, from the prize persective? I'm Irish and I recollect Pat Glennon and Garney Bogoure (spelling?) coming over from Australia to ride for Vincent O'Brien in the 60s, for the money I assume. Has the Aussie racing business improved financially from those days?
tommyjone,
Has Australian racing improved over the years, from the prize persective? I'm Irish and I recollect Pat Glennon and Garney Bogoure (spelling?) coming over from Australia to ride for Vincent O'Brien in the 60s, for the money I assume. Has the Aussie racing business improved financially from those days?
Has Australian racing improved over the years, from the prize persective? I'm Irish and I recollect Pat Glennon and Garney Bogoure (spelling?) coming over from Australia to ride for Vincent O'Brien in the 60s, for the money I assume. Has the Aussie racing business improved financially from those days?
barry dennis
11 Apr 12 09:48
Joined:
23 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 348 | Blogger: barry dennis's blog
Today, Australian Gambling Authorities confirm betting exchanges will be taxed 1.1/2% on turnover, how will they absorb these charges or just accept defeat.
Do you have a source for this barry?
11 Apr 12 09:48
Joined:
23 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 348 | Blogger: barry dennis's blog
Today, Australian Gambling Authorities confirm betting exchanges will be taxed 1.1/2% on turnover, how will they absorb these charges or just accept defeat.
Do you have a source for this barry?
Victoria now increases to 2.0% for it's Carnival period. Right there on day one tells you where turnover taxes lead.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i live in the united knigdom so unlikly i will go to a austalian race course
A lot of issues got confused on this thread.
I know the Aussies will come back and say Betfair have been paying it since 2006,but they obviously hoped they might get it back. Now it's clear they won't has this ruling had any effect on BF Australian markets ?
I know the Aussies will come back and say Betfair have been paying it since 2006,but they obviously hoped they might get it back. Now it's clear they won't has this ruling had any effect on BF Australian markets ?
In this country bets as such haven`t been taxed for many years,though of course most of us are old enough to remember when they were. British firms have gone offshore to avoid paying GB Corporation Tax and to a lesser extent the Levy. Both of these are based on profits not turnover.
My memory must be failing then, or things have changed in recent years. Levy was always paid on horserace TURNOVER. As for the return of anything like the old BD - no chance. All that is likely to happen in NSW is that Betfair will increase comm rates to cover the 1.5% levy on turnover. In the UK, I'm all for the govt forcing the nomads back into the fold.
My memory must be failing then, or things have changed in recent years. Levy was always paid on horserace TURNOVER. As for the return of anything like the old BD - no chance. All that is likely to happen in NSW is that Betfair will increase comm rates to cover the 1.5% levy on turnover. In the UK, I'm all for the govt forcing the nomads back into the fold.
gross profit tax, purely based on profit came in a number of years ago, asked for by the bookmakers and granted by the government
Try reading my post correctly Alias. Of course I am aware the levy and betting tax WERE based on turnover. Corporation tax has always been a tax on profits. The current levy is payable on profits and not turnover.
thread was interesting til halfway down the first page,moron
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