Death of The Hill Bookmakers?

Well that narrows it down a bit - but not much !!!

Minimum bid is £150, but when the course see this maybe a re draft...

I wouldn't go for £100.

cant see where it says any minimum amount.
but £150 would be the same as last years £140 plus an increase of £10.

where will the agt get enough staff to administer the various areas and be on hand
to resolve all the disputes?

LIKE RR SAYS THEYLL ALLL TURN UP CAUSE THEY THINK THERE MAY BE A THIRD MISSSING AND THEYLL BE OVERCROWDED WITH BUISNES........MISSING ? NO CHANCE .....NEXT YEAR MAYBE

S.O.G.Y MISSSSIMG DERBY DAY .........MORE CHANCE OF FINDING ELVIS AT TATTTENHAM CORNER

previously itwas 140 quid but you knewprety much where youd bet, now you could bid 250 and be in  a worse place, as i said before they can stick it where the sun dont shine, ive spoken to one of the guys who builds the joints up and he reckons the new deal makes it a waste of time  for him to bother wioth financialy.i certainly coulnt be bothered to take my own joint up on the hill. all the aggro trying to put it away after when aLL I REALLY ANNA DO IS GO HOME.i usually do the frriday but i wont bother ill go to my home track  brighton.if its poss to do just the aug bank i may do that but once again ill not  lose any kip if i cant.went to a point to point today bet to fabulous figures, took resonable money , won more than ive ever won derby  day , nevr had   dispute with a drunk, got off the track in five mins  without having to drive over broken beer bottles and paid less than the 150 min to bet derby day , it made me think "why do i actually want to got to epsom anyway.

S.O.G.Y likely to go to Cartmel Cashy - he's party of the furniture there you know but your other 'chums' are nailed on. Will this new arrangement stop you and Mossy arguing over a blade of grass ?

Whisky
I don't go to rearranged points but todays looked very good for the lads.My plans today were to go to Sedgefield first choice,if that was off then go to the Jedforest point.Both off of course so we ended up at Micks point.I backed a 14/1 led over the last & got beat,a 12/1 led over the last & got beat,an even money fav. led over the last & got beat.Backed one each way,only paying on the first two & it finished third.Unbelievable!
Sickoflaying winners
You're talking sense there a decent point takes a bit of beating.As for Epsom I stopped going to Epsom a few years ago,I usually do far better business that day at Hexham & Newcastle than I used to at Epsom.

getting back to the main point epsom are claiming they can implement these changes before september 2012 by declaring the areas as new betting areas as there are no set lists in these areas.
but everyone knows this is not true.
they have been informed that lists do exsist but will not recognise them as they say there are unaware of them.
if the f.r.b. wanted to they could get these changes delayed for this year at least but i guess it does not interest them.

no reply yet to the 1646 post by cashless.

Where will SkintofGreatYarmouth bet on Derby day,

Epsom N/O

Cartmel 4/5

He likes to have some figures on the board!

SOGY is in the Guinness Book of Bookmaking Records for betting to 200% one Derby Day, he is available to give lessons to any bookmaker currently betting to as close as 100% as possible.  Get in early (like the Weaselewise) cos there is bound to be plenty of interest!!!

Will they really only offer these picks to 2011 epsom bookmakers.

the bloke i bet next to on derby day openened at 112% on the derby that was at 11.30 and he got worse then complained it was rubbish.

Ok so the betting % is not great, the fees are going up, you cant guarantee your pick, you need to arrive at 9am, the oaks and BH Monday are rubbish, its full of gypsies and people looking for a fight, you never get a result in the derby and you have to park your car miles from your pick and carry enough batteries to power London.

Can anyone give me a good reason not to attend the Derby this year !!!!

the weather if it rains its all grass and can b a mudbath which it was i think 4 years ago wen we all layed cardboard boxes out so people cud walk safely apart from that ave a gud day

DEMOCRAT ILL BE THERE DERBY DAY ALONG NORWICH CITYS MOST LOYAL SUPPORTERS....I GET A FEEELING AS RESIDENT DOUBLE AGENT YOULL BE THERE AS WELL.....S.O.G.Y..1-6..........FLASH 1-10

pat can i have 10 fifty's on ? think it will be ok only downside if i get robin fletcher 1 side of me and jockey wilson the other it will be like a rose between 2 thorns i just wanna be on my own 50yds away from the tuggers

WE KNOW ITLL BE OK EDD SO WE PAY AN EXTRA FEW QUID NO BIG DEAL..JUST PAY A PONY OVER THE ODDS EDD AND YOU CAN BET WHERE YA WANT

If you only make a book at Epsom on Derby Day what happens after September 2012 with this marketing fee?

Cashy I only go with the Norfolk yokels in my capacity as navigator to avoid them getting lost - they dont travel much beyond Newmarket and satnav has yet to reach Yarmouth and Wisbech !! Weasel will have to decide whether to send his rep. to his second choice and as for him getting involved in a tender the only one he knows is 'Love Me Tender' !!!!

LEICESTER HAVE DRAWN NORWIICH AWAY IN THE CUP IVE PLANS TO GO ,I WONDER IF ILL GET THE INVITE TO A CUP OF TEA AND A PEICE OF CAKE.IF WE GO ON THE BUS WITH THE LADS AND WE PASS THERE HOUSE I WAS PLANNING ON DISTRBUTING HALF BRICKS TO THE LADS ON THE COACH

Will the bus stop or will it be done 'in running' ?????

ILL BET 1.01 WE DONT MISS

I see you have got our man , Adge will not be pleased.

Sorry pat ignore that last post, some numpty informed me he had come to you, just checked , gone to Southampton.

And no doubt even tho' on the other side of the world adge was one of the first to know !! Will Irish Joe be one of the firing squad Cashy - if so you can have 100/1 !!

LEICESTER BID 7M FOR THE RANGERS KID WENT EVERTON FOR 5.5..........WE BID 3M FOR SHARP AND HE WENT FOR 1.8..........WE BID 5.5M FOR MAYNARD AND HE WENT FOR 1.65.....WILL SOMEBODY TELL ME WHATS GOING ON

must have all seen sense i mean who wants to go to an east midlands gaff/khasi

Not too difficult to work out Cashy. They've all realised there's no such thing as 'Money without work' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

democrat what price/value would you put on tatts 5 rowley ?

Ed, I offered 35 last year and was willing to deal. He wasn't interested. In my opinion that was a VERY fair offer.. I certainly wouldn't be offering that much now!!

thats what i had in mind £35kish not sure i want a move up there cos its still a khazi majority of meets even dan hague a regular misser last yr tho he had a schedule Y substitute

1 day a year, even in the decent pitches IMO.  If I could get a decent price for mine I'd be OUT.  Fat chance of that now its gone down the nick.

Different people have different strategies flash but one is a belief that the capital outlay would be recovered over 4 years - if the vendor rates the value at 40k that makes it 10k profit a year. You would of course work by the paddock off that no. with whatever benefits that brings. I like you am no great fan of the place, little atmosphere, seldom race in good weather and quality race days at a premium. Not sure if this helps much - if in doubt toss a coin !!

Flash you'll be pleased to know that a very recent sale at GY means that some of your 'dear friends' from Bernard Matthews country are now doubly represented at the course !! The mind boggles !

did they buy howlett racings prime pick

You're warm in fact bvery warm !!!

You're warm in fact very warm !!!

well spill the beanz democrat the suspense is killing me

I believe you had WORDS with the purchaser last summer or was it the one before ? That's as much info as I can impart.

That narrows it down a bit!! 

IVE JUST BOUGHT BACK IN AT THE ROWLEY JUST TTTTTT T CLOSE TA MY MATES S.OG.Y AND FLASH

Good luck to you - you'll need it near those two pullers and tuggers !!!!!

Did you buy it Ed? It's gone from the website!

He's ignoring you Paddy - or too busy doing his 'other job' !

HOPING THEY HAVENT FROZE TO DEATH

S.O.G.Ys IN FRONT OF THE FIRE

That'll be the fire in the Raceview Bar at the dogs !!

That'll be the fire in the Raceview Bar at the dogs !!

no i didn't buy it for what it is worth i offered him £42k { must want my head testing } he said he wanted £50k hence declared myself a non runner ! it prob only worth £35k max ; went a bit higher cos it 25mins up road from me ; seems sombody has pulled up £50k their need is much greater than mine ! so hard to put REAL valuations on pitches i honestly believe my pick 11 at the july course will out perfom pick 5 at the rowley mile yr in yr out by a country mile and no way would i swap it for the said pick at the rowley ! however for whatever reason it is probably woth less than half of that of the said rowley pick bonkers imo .

DEMOCRAT REMEMBER WHEN WE WAS INVOLVED WITH 7-8 ON THE FRONT LINE ALL THEM YEARS AGO...WHEN BUYING AND SELLING CAME IN AND ALL THEM KIND OF NUMBERS WERE FETCHING TELEPHONE NUMBERS ,I STTOOOD THERE SCRATCHING ME HEAD WONDERING DID SOMEBODY KNOW DIFFERENT TO ME

EDD WHY DONT YA OFFER SOMEBODY IN THE TOP 5 ON THE JULY TOP DOUGH FOR THERE PITCH

cashy brendan skekkey daid he wudn't take less than 50 cos he paid 130 for it ! july course for what you would have to pay for a top 5 pick i am more than happy with what i have got for what i paid i'e mik howard paid £40k for pick 8 i paid less than half that for mine mind u he did stand one for £6.30 2 yrs back !

Remember it well Cashy. Also remember overhearing John Pegley at the very first auction saying 'there will be some blood spilt' when a host of starngers were paying sky high prices for the picks being sold. By that comment I thought he meant that the successful bidders would not have a clue how to make a book ( talking pre-Exchanges here ) but of course he could have meant that ten years down the line the capital values ( in some/most cases ) would halve and more !! How many on here attended that first auction it'd be interesting to hear from them and their recollections. More later.

REMEMBER RON SIMCOTT ATTENDING ONE OF THE EARLIER PITCH AUCTIONS AND BEING TOLD BY CLIVE REAMS(NJPC)"IF U BUY A PITCH ITS YOURS FOR LIFE" ANOTHER FAMOUS QUOTE WE WILL NEVER ALLOW BOARDS ON RAILS.ALWAYS USED TO MAKE ME SMILE HOW CERTAIN PEOPLE KNEW EXACTLY WHEN TO BUY,AND EXACTLY WHEN TO GET RID ANYONE WOULD THINK THEY WERE GETTING THERE CARDS MARKED

Privileged information has been worth a fortune to some TRUTH and still is ! I remember a pal of mine had his Towcester pitch in at a certain auction and it was sold at several thousand below his reserve. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. When I told him  ( he wasn't at the auction ) he quite rightly kicked up merry Hell and subsequently was paid his reserve figure. Nothing untoward here except total incompetence by CR. But where was the difference in the hammer price and the amount received come from ? Things have improved since thank goodness.

plenty of buyers made a killing at the first auctions and had several years to realise a profit if they so wished.it's the last 5 years or so when the pitches outside the top 10 have spiralled downwards.
the people who got mugged early doors were those vendors who were advised to sell all their picks in one lot.

oh and the others who got mugged selling there pitches
and having to pay heavy commission to them auctioneers!,
let alone the njpc

good point carpet,yes 12 1/2% commission +vat! clive lived well for a while,the auctioneers were class though.

Talking of the 1st auctions - I wouldn't mind having a look at some of Stephen Little's data that he compiled
Make interesting reading now - I lost all mine a few years ago

Andrew give me a prompt before the next meeting and i will see what i can dig up.

Cheers uwgs
Just give me one of your pick no's so I know who you are

545APG - he has about 27 pitches at Doncaster flat - that should be clue enough :-)

Out of your neighbours at Redcar i am the one that has not learned to do the smiley faces and i suspect that i am too old to learn now.

Having mentioned Redcar i personally attend the track even less frequently than you do.

it must be alan bennett then.

Think I've gotcha

What chance Donny on Thursday Joe?

very slim imo,it says on the website they are reassessing the situation in the morning to presumably tell us when they will inspect.

If it is off I'm going to register at the dole office - I've had 3 days of work this year!!

I was going to reapply for my old job modelling - unfortunately the gas mask factory has shut down!

just spoke to someone at ayr,only 1 book in the actual tatts ring.

Probably only one punter in there aswell!!

545APG some interesting comparisons between prices currently being asked on the live auction site and what the same pitches were actually sold for in the past.

Ascot NH T19 now £2200  - previously £13000

Ascot R T39 now £7000 - previously (T38)£26000

Chelt F T62 £2000 - (73) £18000

Sandown F T30 £3200 - (31) £13000

Southwell AW T16 £1500 - (17) £17000

Thirsk T44 £400 - (46) £3500

Wincanton T21 £1400 - (29) £10000



Food for thought?

Even if the vendors get the full asking price it amounts to £17700 compared to previous sales values of £101500 i.e. a drop of over 80% !!!!!!

One thing in common with all these lots is they are all bad picks and never were good picks!!!

We bought some of our pitches at the top end but most at the bottom end and all in the top ten bar for Aintree

I see the Irish lady is selling her Tatts pitch at Cheltenham - only asked her for a bet once and got halved and halved and halved again

ribero there is normaly only 2 or 3 in ayr tatts anyway for the midweek jumps cards.

jimnast - julie has had tatts to herself for the past few meetings, you could have at least made an effort to make it two

Ascot n/h 19 - bad pick!, is it?

wtf has it got do with the thread, f**k off and start your own

wtf has it got do with the thread, f**k off and start your own

just looked on the auction site and yes i agree that there are no good picks for sale.but then again why should there be(mine definitely arent).what amazes me is what has been bid for some of those lots,i have bet near some of the positions that are on there and believe me they would have to pay me to turn up.somebody somewhere will be in for a nasty shock with one of the lots(take the money and run).

SPOT ON ARTFUL,THE VAST MAJORITY OF PICKS THESE DAYS THE RACECOURSES SHOULD BE PAYING THE BOOKMAKERS TO WORK EM.

spring is just round the corner when we start earning a crust again,that winter game is diabolical(only been out once this year)got to the stage where im just following the punters around the country.lol

So John Pegley was right !! I know of some who 'invested' fortunes in pitches and managed to sell them without suffering the huge losses they would if sold now. One question - does anyone know if a loss incurred between buying and seliing price can be set against tax ? At first auction I can remember Mrs Redfearn, mother of Anthea of Generation Game and wife of Frank, being cheered from the Hall after her picks were sold !

democrat,anthea was there herself and walked out with her family as soon as the lot had gone through.

Yes I do remember ribero - just didn't mention it !! Am I right in thinking that no cheques were accepted at that auction ? Surely I've got that wrong !

Could be something in that Demo. If you were to make a capital gain the taxman would want his cut, so why not set a capital lose against tax.

Anybody know the tax law regarding this?

YES I REMEMBER THE REDFERN FAMILY TURNING UP AT THE AUCTION AND BEING GREETED WITH"NICE TO SEE U,TO SEE U NICE" AFTER THE PITCHES WERE SOLD THE AUCTIONEER SHOUTED"DIDNT SHE DO WELL"TWO OF HER POORER PICKS WERE PUT UP FOR SALE TOGETHER,WITH NO BIDS THE AUCTIONEER RETORTED,"YOU GET NOTHING FOR A PAIR NOT IN THIS GAME".

I remember one firm in particular buying and buying pitches as if money had gone out of fashion. Knowing a bit about them I thought how on earth were they going to resource all the days racing that would be involved. Needless to say the firm does not operate today, No prizes for guessing the id. !!!

Whiskey alpha.....

If you sell a list position at a loss,that capital loss can be set against any capital gains you make but not against your inland revenue liability.

Similarly purchasing a list position cannot be set against your tax liability.

If you sell a pitch for less than you paid for it you DO incur a capital loss.  This can be set against any capital gains for that financial year.  It cannot be set against other classes of taxation.

Beat me to it AD

Hi Wassy.....we can always get a job with the inland revenue.....except we enjoy this game too much!!!

the artful dodger,

.....except we enjoy this game too much!!!

Enjoy, are you a f*cking masochist or something!

Surrounded by c*nts who are slaves to the betting exchanges.

Oh look, it's 6.6 to back, i better go 11/2!

I can make better books, staying at home!

Mum,

You are funny!

Norfolk....No,not a masochist but we do like the game and tend to give the quieter meetings a swerve.The c*nts you mention are all over the place....their noses glued to the screen and having anything above a fiver back on the machine.....favourite loses £4.....second favourite loses £1....everything else wins between £6 and £15!!!Total take....£420.....bets back on the machine £400!!!!

They're very brave but without the machine they wouldn't have a clue!

Perhaps different tax rules if you trade as a limited company?

Trading as a Ltd company of course keeps your personal assets segregated and can be more advantageous taxation wise depending on how an income is drawn, I do however believe the the IHT position would be significantly different i.e between Sole Trader & LTD Company

how the feck are peopleexpected to bid on something  not knowing what they are gonna get for their money. this is without doubt the most ludicrous idea ever. you could bit 300 or more and have no idea where your gonna bet untill youve paid your money out lol.if you bid for a pick at any current course you know where you can expect tp work from and adjust your bid accordingly,can you imagine going tom a property auction  and bidding on a property  and then being told which house youve bought?this could not happen in any other business.i cannot believe the agt tghinks this is a sensible way forward.at the very least every pitch should be numbered and then you have a clue as to what you are bidding for, a map/printout of where every joint is gonna be should be available for us to see before bidding for anything . ffs chaps dont stand foir this total b0000llloox , if you feel the need to bid , then bid £10 and we cqan all bid the same tenner

I wonder if you can put bids in on different areas in case you don't get in the area of your first choice?You could bid & give your prefence which area you want to stand in for first choice etc.If you don't get in your first choice then they look at your bid for your second choice & so on until you have a successful bid or will everyone get in the area they want regardless of the number in that area?