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27 Oct 11
22:49
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30 Mar 08
Struggling to see how the pro-whips are going to win this argument unless they come up with some new arguments or convincingly explain the current necessity for jockeys to use whips in races. I want to be convinced for the entertainment aspect but still havent heard one solid reason not to ban it either on the forum or from jockey/trainer quotes.
It encourages lazy horses - non argument. There are horses out there who dont run to their full potential with the whip so why does it matter if some are lazy without it? A race is a race and it would be better for punters once you know which horses are willing and which ones arent.
Safety of horse/ safety of others - unconvincing argument. Have seen horses swerve due to whip and seen plenty of jockeys straighten up horses without whip.
More entertaining with whip - true. It signals the exciting finale in the race and showcases jockeys skills. I dont want to see this go but racing can live without it.
Not enough reason to ban it - well, clearly some people think its abuse but equally importantly, there just isn't a way of giving a jockey a whip and saying 'do everything to win the race but dont overuse the whip'. There will always be differeing views of what was too much and what was too little, which also increases suspicion of losing rides. There will always be some horses who react better or worse to the whip which makes punting more difficult.
I predict the current chaos continues and whipping is banned by the end of the year as the only solution to the current mess.
It encourages lazy horses - non argument. There are horses out there who dont run to their full potential with the whip so why does it matter if some are lazy without it? A race is a race and it would be better for punters once you know which horses are willing and which ones arent.
Safety of horse/ safety of others - unconvincing argument. Have seen horses swerve due to whip and seen plenty of jockeys straighten up horses without whip.
More entertaining with whip - true. It signals the exciting finale in the race and showcases jockeys skills. I dont want to see this go but racing can live without it.
Not enough reason to ban it - well, clearly some people think its abuse but equally importantly, there just isn't a way of giving a jockey a whip and saying 'do everything to win the race but dont overuse the whip'. There will always be differeing views of what was too much and what was too little, which also increases suspicion of losing rides. There will always be some horses who react better or worse to the whip which makes punting more difficult.
I predict the current chaos continues and whipping is banned by the end of the year as the only solution to the current mess.
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Look at the last few festivals, most of them would now be banned under the new rules. now tell me people are going to be betting on them as much, apart from the Breeders Cup i wont be having many bets this winter until i see how this affects top class racing in the Nh game
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imo any whip agreement has to be universal, you wouldnt get much foreign involvement with British racing if it universally banned the whip
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Unilaterally banned the whip that should read
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Unilateral argument - yes, in theory the sport should be regulated worldwide imo but britain has to decided to take the lead/cave into minority groups (whichever your preference) so the current situation is chaos. I wouldnt have minded if all of this debate had never come up but its here and Britain is clearly making its own rules
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^ although keeping the sport unilateral is a really good argument that i havent heard any jockeys or trainers use as yet..
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That`s because you haven`t been listening.
Horses have always been controlled with whips since the Middle Ages to my knowledge. |
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I suggest that you read the BHA report which can be found on the BHA website
You may be surprised - if you do - to find that the arguments which you reject as "non-argument" and "unconvincing" were (ironically) fully accepted as valid ones in the report. If I were on a novice chaser heading at 30 mph straight for a 6 foot fence and don't think that it is going to time its leap properly, I would not want to be whipless - particularly if the possible outcome is my broken neck and the horses' death? |
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i reckon 99% of people who comment on this have never read the report and plenty have never seen a horse either
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Horses always been controlled with whips - and i imagine they always will be to some extent. I still havent heard the argument why it's necessary for a race to happen. Maybe because I havent been listening.
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GFYS
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I havent read the report, and as irrelevant as this is, I haven't sat on a horse, am not a vegetarian, do not work for the BHA, do enjoy NH racing.
My point was that the pro-whip arguments arent getting through. If I were on a novice chaser heading at 30 mph straight for a 6 foot fence and don't think that it is going to time its leap properly, I would not want to be whipless - particularly if the possible outcome is my broken neck and the horses' death? If I were on a novice chaser heading at 30 mph straight for a 6 foot fence and don't think that it is going to time its leap properly, i could as easily kill us both by using the whip? The problem for the pro-whip argument is that there are countless more examples of the latter than the former |
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No there aren`t.
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talking rubbish
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feck it i'm with wolf man
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So one of the pro-whip arguments is that it helps a horse time a jump at a fence helping the horse and jockey get over safely. That's a new one on me tbf.
And for the flat jocks? Have they got an equally killer argument? |
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I`m sorry but if you know ANYTHING about racing you really should know the former. I don`t think you are worth arguing with at this time of night.
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Pleasegivemeanailedontip 27 Oct 11 23:49
I predict the current chaos continues and whipping is banned by the end of the year as the only solution to the current mess. -------------------------------------------- You are also predicting the END of British racing. Nobody will be, seriously, on races run without the whip - only the 10p Lucky15 daydreamers will continue. At a time when the new in-coming Chief Executive of the BHA, Paul Bittar - has made his number one priority to address and increase the LEVY - He will not face an uphill task - BUT an impossible one - given Whipless racing. That's an absolute 1.01. ...... in betting terms. |
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I'll be betting with no whip, I'll expect to win more (no more getting touched off by unbackable overwhipped gambles) and if other successful gamblers decide to pack it in all the more for me.
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If I were on a novice chaser heading at 30 mph straight for a 6 foot fence and don't think that it is going to time its leap properly, i could as easily kill us both by using the whip? The problem for the pro-whip argument is that there are countless more examples of the latter than the former
worst recent example can remember was Shay Barry gong whip happy on Hairy Molly at Killarney last August. Horse was jumping fine, idiot decides to hit it down the shoulder, barely takes off at the last, you know the rest. |
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Shane Byrne who rode Work Boy to win at Haydock also gave that one a whack at the last. Horse won, but totally unnecessary, as horse was jumping ok.
Was a case where thankful that he did get banned, ironically for 1 strike over the limit |
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Feck you claim that NH racing is cruel how then can you bet on it. Have you no conscience!
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Pedrobob
Do you just watch races to see if a jockey has in your view been cruel or are you actually interested in the sport ? This a gambling horse racing forum for people who enjoy their racing So if your not interested just post your absurd comments on a tree hugging forum |
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if you have seen any of my other comments in the last 2 weeks, ranader, you would find it difficult to describe me as anti-whip.
Just pointing out 2 cases where the whip was totally unnecessary (1 resulting in the death of a former Champion Bumper winner aged 10, who had only fallen in 2 of his previous 25 starts over jumps). Some jocks are whip happy and need to be educated. |
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lacson 28 Oct 11 00:09
"If I were on a novice chaser heading at 30 mph straight for a 6 foot fence.... " Where are these 6 foot fences you speak of? I'm surprised, having read a couple of your other posts, that you've resorted to this kind of sensationalist stuff lacson. |
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Pardubice, Gerry, they breed em tough out there
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Where has this safety argument come from? I only read people spouting about it on here. To the best of my knowledge, the BHA, RSPCA, WHW and, even A flipping A, have never said people shouldn't carry whips for safety purposes. Correction will always be allowed, it's the encouragement element the debate revolves around.
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(btw, gigspig, If you're with wolfatthedoor you've backed the wrong horse, mate. A few, just a few, mind, of the 'pros' are capable of arguing their position intelligently and without name-calling. He fails on both counts).
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I see the usual suspects are on here.
I don't care what GG, TH and Feck say they are not gamblers. They may be part time punters but they are definitely not gamblers. The 'no whip' brigade do not bet on horses seriously because it is a cheat's charter. Why anyone listens to this bunch I don't know. They turn up on every whip debate spouting their complete ignorance of our sport. And, as I said, they can give you all the bullsh@t they like, they are not genuine gamblers. And I will give you a 'nailedontip' the whip won't be banned anytime soon. So you 'no whip' guys why don't you go away and play with yourselves. Leave the genuine horse racing people to discuss their sport sensibly. |
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Take a bow, brigust.
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BTW, can you tell Betfair that I don't gamble, please? They might let me off the Premium Charge then ysfc.
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Rung the RSPCA up yet, btw, brig?
Or do you think you can change the world sitting in yer scratchers having another meltdown on the Betfair forum???  |
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This good enough for ya 'brigust'??
2011-10-05 12:23 90009869016 2011-10-05 12:23 Premium Charge for week commencing 26 Sep 11 - CC663 - ADJ52 - - - (3,607.31) 2011-10-02 15:39 16495259947 2011-09-27 16:34 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 32.00 391.00 Won 12,121.00 39,691.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16494994716 2011-09-27 16:19 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 32.00 55.00 Won 1,705.00 27,570.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16494992770 2011-09-27 16:19 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 36.00 20.00 Won 700.00 25,865.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16394188285 2011-09-20 00:43 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 44.00 5.00 Won 215.00 25,165.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16390637428 2011-09-19 18:25 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 38.00 8.00 Won 296.00 24,950.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16303507595 2011-09-13 14:54 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 36.00 6.00 Won 210.00 24,654.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16292186869 2011-09-12 14:35 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 36.00 2.00 Won 70.00 24,444.04 2011-10-02 15:39 16139071976 2011-08-31 22:32 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 1,000.00 19.71 Won 19,690.29 24,374.04 2011-10-02 15:39 15850409127 2011-08-10 12:11 FRA Long (FRA) 2nd Oct / Arc De Triomphe / Danedream Back 510.00 2.00 Won 1,018.00 4,683.75 Run along little boy........and leave the real punters to sort this out...... |
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The Headmaster talking rubbish about the PC. He really hasn't a clue has he. You know Head, you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.
I know your talking sh@t, Bf knows your talking sh@t, so 'Stop' talking sh@t. But I have to agree I promised myself not to get embroiled with this bunch of 'usual suspects' so I will leave you to your own idea of rubbish. |
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Oh dear, brig....you should always hit 'refresh' before posting, I reckon!
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Anybody who BACKED Danedream knows sod all about racing imo
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A few, just a few, mind, of the 'pros' are capable of arguing their position intelligently and without name-calling.
To be followed by.......... They might let me off the Premium Charge then ysfc. |
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Ooooops missed this
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TH you and I know you are talking sh@t. I would take this further but I won't. I will leave you in your own little world.
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Give us a list of horses it's acceptable to have had it off on then, SS, I'm sure one of them will be in here somewhere!
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