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21 Oct 11
18:36
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Date Joined:
17 Jun 11
Surely this well bred horse is a reasonable price? Yes it did not beat much but still won as liked. Normally scared of Bolger horses but as his is not 16/1 or 20/1 I might be ok. think the money will come for this tomorrow, thoughts?
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his price is a joke, 6/4 for a maiden winner and all the horses behind cant get within 20L of the winner nto.
even if he wins by 10, joke price, dont lay him, just back something else imo!
gl
even if he wins by 10, joke price, dont lay him, just back something else imo!
gl
but surely if his price is a joke why shouldn't you lay him?
as you can lay as much 11/8 as you want ON HERE that price is massive
i trust you will all have layed to your full bank...or is it all talk ?
i trust you will all have layed to your full bank...or is it all talk ?
But doesn't the fact that he is here tell us that he is better than Daddylonglegs.
Shame they didnt add an "E" to his name,Could have made an anagram of "Cameltoe"
mythical prince Joined: 20 Sep 06
Replies: 3492 21 Oct 11 23:54
but surely if his price is a joke why shouldn't you lay him?
because he might be a flying machine! might aswell get decent odds against him, risking less instead of laying him at 6/4. what has he done on the track to warrent a price like 6/4?
anyone backing it without info is crazy!
Replies: 3492 21 Oct 11 23:54
but surely if his price is a joke why shouldn't you lay him?
because he might be a flying machine! might aswell get decent odds against him, risking less instead of laying him at 6/4. what has he done on the track to warrent a price like 6/4?
anyone backing it without info is crazy!
don't get your logic. he is either a bad price or he isn't. on the one hand you can't say his price is a joke and then say it's too risky laying him.
well what has he done on the track to warrant 6-4 is a fair question. on the other hand you could say with the info ballydoyle have, lets say they think he's their best 2 year old.. then the reason he's 6-4 is because ballydoyle insiders are backing him.
for example ladbrokes are swerving this animal, which tells you something. st nicholas abbey was also very well supported a couple of years ago in the same race before hacking up. ok you could say he won a beresford but that renewal had more strength in depth.
for example ladbrokes are swerving this animal, which tells you something. st nicholas abbey was also very well supported a couple of years ago in the same race before hacking up. ok you could say he won a beresford but that renewal had more strength in depth.
its not too risky laying him, what im saying is hes an unknown, so id rather throw a tenner on an outsider than lay him for 100 to make the same money as he might be the next frankel!
he wins im down a tenner!
i lay him im down 100!
unless u wanna lay him for pittens but i dont see the point in that!!
i hope this makes sense to u!
he wins im down a tenner!
i lay him im down 100!
unless u wanna lay him for pittens but i dont see the point in that!!
i hope this makes sense to u!
i can lay him for a tenner but id rather just have a token bet on something bigger because hes shorter than i think he should be and i dont have a strong opinion!
i ahve absolusolutely nothing against anyone laying him for a tenner byw, im not a big hitter or anything close!
in this instance id just rather try make a decent few quid rather than risking more to win more!
in this instance id just rather try make a decent few quid rather than risking more to win more!
but surely if you back anything else you are just guessing as to which the right horse to back is... then he
gets beat but it doesn't matter because you backed the wrong one.
whereas if you genuinely think he is shorter than he should be, then just lay him? then you have the whole field?
gets beat but it doesn't matter because you backed the wrong one.
whereas if you genuinely think he is shorter than he should be, then just lay him? then you have the whole field?
i wouldn't back it, rather watch, but this race is littered with winners that had won nothing more than a maiden, motivator comes to mind, high chapparral etc so wouldn't let the form book dictate too much given the connections
Nothing special on the clock any of them,the ground and draw maybe the deciding factors.
yes i know what laying is mp -LOL
its just something i do if i dont have a strong opinion on the short priced fav (that could be a flying machine), i dont want to risk much money on the race but i wanna have more than a tenner or so win if i lay him so...
its just something i do if i dont have a strong opinion on the short priced fav (that could be a flying machine), i dont want to risk much money on the race but i wanna have more than a tenner or so win if i lay him so...
fair enough.
the problem is when you go through the opposition you realise that it is in fact
a very weak field.
fencing I think is overrated. even the trainer is talking him down and thinks he'll find one or two too good.
encke looks on the weak side to me.
talwar is exposed to a certain extent.
zip top is nothing special.
learn is a pacemaker for camelot.
i'd rather back camelot at around 6-4 than back one of the others. also I don't think you can just say you'll back one of the others in the field without specfiying which one.
the problem is when you go through the opposition you realise that it is in fact
a very weak field.
fencing I think is overrated. even the trainer is talking him down and thinks he'll find one or two too good.
encke looks on the weak side to me.
talwar is exposed to a certain extent.
zip top is nothing special.
learn is a pacemaker for camelot.
i'd rather back camelot at around 6-4 than back one of the others. also I don't think you can just say you'll back one of the others in the field without specfiying which one.
ok, let me put some cold hard form facts on this race as nobody seems to have done, although they are giving there opinions.
-camelot beat on debut a or'd 76 horse that gave him 2lb, but fat boy o'brien put 1lb over, and claimed 3lbs- this horse has been beaten by at least that far and further in every race its contested and the horses behind have not won a race yet either. would i call this good form, no its pure trash and he's 6/4 or watever.
encke- best judged on his maiden 2nd to pereniall, which should still be unbeaten but for a useless hills riding it. can be given a mark in upper 90's-which gives camelot about 20lbs to improve
fencing- is or'd 105 due to smashing a horse deserved of its or93 by 5 lenghts goin away over 7furlongs, is scopey will be better over this mile and looks a stone cold certainty to me, dont mind gosden talking him down a bit.
possible plays- massive win lay of fav, place lay of fav or win bet fencing, massive place fencing
no doubt i could have egg on my face tomorrow, but its just my thoughts
-camelot beat on debut a or'd 76 horse that gave him 2lb, but fat boy o'brien put 1lb over, and claimed 3lbs- this horse has been beaten by at least that far and further in every race its contested and the horses behind have not won a race yet either. would i call this good form, no its pure trash and he's 6/4 or watever.
encke- best judged on his maiden 2nd to pereniall, which should still be unbeaten but for a useless hills riding it. can be given a mark in upper 90's-which gives camelot about 20lbs to improve
fencing- is or'd 105 due to smashing a horse deserved of its or93 by 5 lenghts goin away over 7furlongs, is scopey will be better over this mile and looks a stone cold certainty to me, dont mind gosden talking him down a bit.
possible plays- massive win lay of fav, place lay of fav or win bet fencing, massive place fencing
no doubt i could have egg on my face tomorrow, but its just my thoughts
7/4 advertised in the william hill advert on the middle pages of the racing post.
that is in bold letters so no misprint.
that is in bold letters so no misprint.
7/4 advertised in the william hill advert on the middle pages of the racing post.
that is in bold letters so no misprint.
that is in bold letters so no misprint.
Betting overbroke on the Channel 4 prices 5/4 11/4 8/1 10/1 20/1!
Learn will go off in front,Camelot will swing away on the bridle in 2nd or 3rd before pouncing and winning easing down
6/4 looks good to me now, rule 4 to come but as short as 5/6 in places, I am on so we will see, some great replys cheers.
sure am Busvaldo,partly because its a week field (imo) and also because he's one of their best 2 yo's if not the best!
Camelot won in great style first time out,but If the pacemakers rider fails to do a proper Job and it turns tactical,then
in a close finish, Buick will probably prevail over less experienced O'brien
imo
in a close finish, Buick will probably prevail over less experienced O'brien
imo
if hills hold there 5/4 till 11 it will be 11/8 with stan james for an hour, until hills cut it. imo it's a lay at 11/10 and have laid the bol***ks off it expecting it to drift.
He has got the weakest form in the race and 100 days off the racecourse,
so on the face of it and such a short price it looks a lay,
but the horse has potential + reputation of connections - who rate him one of their best,
and that has been backed up with hard cash this week for today's race
and the 2012 Derby (was 16/1 now 10/1).
Certainly wouldn't be confident to lay him either, and no value to back him.
so on the face of it and such a short price it looks a lay,
but the horse has potential + reputation of connections - who rate him one of their best,
and that has been backed up with hard cash this week for today's race
and the 2012 Derby (was 16/1 now 10/1).
Certainly wouldn't be confident to lay him either, and no value to back him.
Talwar e/w could surprise if back to his best.
how anyone can suggest fencing is a certainty is beyond my comprehension.
So let me get this right then Taipan, in your hard facts opinion, Camelot has about 30lbs 2 find with Fencing?
A little tip for u, not all form is black&white mate.
Eg; Fencing bt Telwar 2.5Ls, Power bt Telwar 19.5Ls
By all acounts Camelot is rated as 1 of AP`OBs best 2yos and for that reason alone he is 6/4f in what does not look a very strong race
I will be surprised if Camelot is not at least as gd as Fencing if not better.
Like all things its about opinion, but for me you have 2 look a bit more deeper into racing than just the bare form.
Best of luck with Fencing tho, as like Camelot, he is a promising middle dist colt in the making.
A little tip for u, not all form is black&white mate.
Eg; Fencing bt Telwar 2.5Ls, Power bt Telwar 19.5Ls
By all acounts Camelot is rated as 1 of AP`OBs best 2yos and for that reason alone he is 6/4f in what does not look a very strong race
I will be surprised if Camelot is not at least as gd as Fencing if not better.
Like all things its about opinion, but for me you have 2 look a bit more deeper into racing than just the bare form.
Best of luck with Fencing tho, as like Camelot, he is a promising middle dist colt in the making.
How can 6/4 be a good price...won a 5 horse mickey mouse maiden, O'Brien had 3 of them!!
If you think the price is decent because A O'Brian thinks its one of his best 2yr olds then good luck.
Fencing has the form in the book.....Camelot is all about potential.......
If you think the price is decent because A O'Brian thinks its one of his best 2yr olds then good luck.
Fencing has the form in the book.....Camelot is all about potential.......
Most of this field is about potential koikeeper.
Fencing has only fair form in the book for me, it was more about the manner that he won in that i liked about him.
Camelot won a poor mdn thats true, but was very impressive and 2 my eye did not come out of 2nd gear 2 win it.
At 6/4 & 5/2 they are both priced up on potential.
If i had 2 have a bet on the race, i would side with Camelot.
Fencing has only fair form in the book for me, it was more about the manner that he won in that i liked about him.
Camelot won a poor mdn thats true, but was very impressive and 2 my eye did not come out of 2nd gear 2 win it.
At 6/4 & 5/2 they are both priced up on potential.
If i had 2 have a bet on the race, i would side with Camelot.
Zip Top for me at the prices. The price for Camelot is an absolute joke.
Zip Top - supplemented, needed every yard of the 7f last time out, finished like a train in a Group 3.
His sire has an excellent record with his 2yo runners over 1m
7.6 on here yes please!!!
Zip Top - supplemented, needed every yard of the 7f last time out, finished like a train in a Group 3.
His sire has an excellent record with his 2yo runners over 1m
7.6 on here yes please!!!
milleracing- yes thts exactly what i'm saying, though no doubt he'll improve from his maiden from, he will have to and big time. looks weak to me and i dont back a horse on its reputation coming from that yard where they are completely full of crap
well at least he's won one more race than pescatorio.
he's also won the same as washington irving- who i remmeber being talked of as a derby certainty
taipan everyone on here knows your full of shít,dont forget to come on here when Camelot skates in,
ps if people think Camelot is a silly price then ill suggest Learn is way overpriced because most people assume he's there as a pacemaker,he may well be but dont be surprised if he goes very close to winning this,1-2 for Ballydoyle is the bet,Camelot to hold of a gutsy Learn
ps if people think Camelot is a silly price then ill suggest Learn is way overpriced because most people assume he's there as a pacemaker,he may well be but dont be surprised if he goes very close to winning this,1-2 for Ballydoyle is the bet,Camelot to hold of a gutsy Learn
would like Fencing but concerned that Gosden doesnt fancy him
There's been some drivel in this thread. Some of it by Mythical Prince.
The price on Camelot is a joke. That doesn't mean I would want to lay it, because by laying it I'm betting it not to win. I reckon it will probably hack up. Why? Ballydoyle have had the money down, Daddy Long Legs has been saved for another race, Encke n/r, Fencing should be top but all the vibes are not today. Do I want to take a chance on Camelot at 11/8? No. Wouldn't bet it unless I could get at least 3s.
Zip Top has e/w chances but with only 5 runners I wouldn't want to be betting in the place market.
The play here would have been to back Camelot for the derby at 12s. Then when the horse wins this you can do as you please. No bet in this race for me.
The price on Camelot is a joke. That doesn't mean I would want to lay it, because by laying it I'm betting it not to win. I reckon it will probably hack up. Why? Ballydoyle have had the money down, Daddy Long Legs has been saved for another race, Encke n/r, Fencing should be top but all the vibes are not today. Do I want to take a chance on Camelot at 11/8? No. Wouldn't bet it unless I could get at least 3s.
Zip Top has e/w chances but with only 5 runners I wouldn't want to be betting in the place market.
The play here would have been to back Camelot for the derby at 12s. Then when the horse wins this you can do as you please. No bet in this race for me.
fencing missed work because of a spot on his arse :o
Camelot evs. 8/11 with Laddies in the ring.
Laddies are laughing here.
Laddies are laughing here.
Passed the field in 3 strides.
Absolute machine.
If you've got on for the Derby your laughing. Lock in some profit now for the Derby.
Absolute machine.
If you've got on for the Derby your laughing. Lock in some profit now for the Derby.
warning was laddies holding at 8/11...no idea what the layers were doing here.
5/1 for The Derby. Not for me, but I was expecting 2/1.
Laddies have the inside line on Coolmore - warning signs were there
The reason it was so short is simply because the right people were on
SORRY for all the booms ? looks a good horse, wont place? i dont think so.that 6/4 looking good now away to hills to collect.
It looks good now Comicbookguy, taking a big chance at that price prior to the race.
Was impressive but i would rather tug on my owns balls than take 3/1 for the derby 
posted by TiptheOdds
Oct 11 22:21
Are you off your feckin trolley? A good price? 6/4 for a group one? It won a five runner maiden on its only start - when two of its opponents were stablemates.
It may well win but 5-1 could possibly be described as a good price, 6/4 NO.
What do u think now??
Oct 11 22:21
Are you off your feckin trolley? A good price? 6/4 for a group one? It won a five runner maiden on its only start - when two of its opponents were stablemates.
It may well win but 5-1 could possibly be described as a good price, 6/4 NO.
What do u think now??
Taipan my friend, u really need 2 get this bee u have in your bonnet about the AP`OB stable out of your system, its effecting your thinking mate.
We are talking about 1 of the strongest stables in the world and for me and millions of others, he is 1 of if not the best trainer of racehorses.
We are talking about 1 of the strongest stables in the world and for me and millions of others, he is 1 of if not the best trainer of racehorses.
3foot
22 Oct 11 15:00
Joined:
02 Apr 11
| Topic/replies: 452 | Blogger: 3foot's blog
There's been some drivel in this thread. Some of it by Mythical Prince.
The price on Camelot is a joke. That doesn't mean I would want to lay it, because by laying it I'm betting it not to win. I reckon it will probably hack up. Why? Ballydoyle have had the money down, Daddy Long Legs has been saved for another race, Encke n/r, Fencing should be top but all the vibes are not today. Do I want to take a chance on Camelot at 11/8? No. Wouldn't bet it unless I could get at least 3s.
Zip Top has e/w chances but with only 5 runners I wouldn't want to be betting in the place market.
The play here would have been to back Camelot for the derby at 12s. Then when the horse wins this you can do as you please. No bet in this race for me.
you sound shrewd.
22 Oct 11 15:00
Joined:
02 Apr 11
| Topic/replies: 452 | Blogger: 3foot's blog
There's been some drivel in this thread. Some of it by Mythical Prince.
The price on Camelot is a joke. That doesn't mean I would want to lay it, because by laying it I'm betting it not to win. I reckon it will probably hack up. Why? Ballydoyle have had the money down, Daddy Long Legs has been saved for another race, Encke n/r, Fencing should be top but all the vibes are not today. Do I want to take a chance on Camelot at 11/8? No. Wouldn't bet it unless I could get at least 3s.
Zip Top has e/w chances but with only 5 runners I wouldn't want to be betting in the place market.
The play here would have been to back Camelot for the derby at 12s. Then when the horse wins this you can do as you please. No bet in this race for me.
you sound shrewd.
mythical prince
22 Oct 11 01:45
Joined:
20 Sep 06
| Topic/replies: 3,508 | Blogger: mythical prince's blog
fair enough.
the problem is when you go through the opposition you realise that it is in fact
a very weak field.
fencing I think is overrated. even the trainer is talking him down and thinks he'll find one or two too good.
encke looks on the weak side to me.
talwar is exposed to a certain extent.
zip top is nothing special.
learn is a pacemaker for camelot.
i'd rather back camelot at around 6-4 than back one of the others. also I don't think you can just say you'll back one of the others in the field without specfiying which one.
^presumably this was the drivel you were referring to, you massive mug.
22 Oct 11 01:45
Joined:
20 Sep 06
| Topic/replies: 3,508 | Blogger: mythical prince's blog
fair enough.
the problem is when you go through the opposition you realise that it is in fact
a very weak field.
fencing I think is overrated. even the trainer is talking him down and thinks he'll find one or two too good.
encke looks on the weak side to me.
talwar is exposed to a certain extent.
zip top is nothing special.
learn is a pacemaker for camelot.
i'd rather back camelot at around 6-4 than back one of the others. also I don't think you can just say you'll back one of the others in the field without specfiying which one.
^presumably this was the drivel you were referring to, you massive mug.
Me shrewd Mythical Prince? I fookin wish.
I took objection to these comments
21/10/11 - 23:54
but surely if his price is a joke why shouldn't you lay him?
22/10/11 1:04
don't get your logic. he is either a bad price or he isn't. on the one hand you can't say his price is a joke and then say it's too risky laying him.
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Just because some of us thought the horse was a shocking price doesn't warrant us laying him to back the rest of the field. Because of this and the fact that there was only 5 runners, I had no bet in the race.
Camelot won like the best 6/4 shot you would ever see. If you took that price then you've got an easy win. I couldn't take the price given the form of Camelot's maiden and the time off the track. I like Fencing but the vibes were there that today wasn't to be the day, despite the money coming for the horse. There was always a chance Camelot would go and do what he did, and I think anyone who holds a Derby AP ticket has a live one, and the bigger the odds the better on that.
I took objection to these comments
21/10/11 - 23:54
but surely if his price is a joke why shouldn't you lay him?
22/10/11 1:04
don't get your logic. he is either a bad price or he isn't. on the one hand you can't say his price is a joke and then say it's too risky laying him.
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Just because some of us thought the horse was a shocking price doesn't warrant us laying him to back the rest of the field. Because of this and the fact that there was only 5 runners, I had no bet in the race.
Camelot won like the best 6/4 shot you would ever see. If you took that price then you've got an easy win. I couldn't take the price given the form of Camelot's maiden and the time off the track. I like Fencing but the vibes were there that today wasn't to be the day, despite the money coming for the horse. There was always a chance Camelot would go and do what he did, and I think anyone who holds a Derby AP ticket has a live one, and the bigger the odds the better on that.
agree with mooono, 3/1 derby price is an absolute joke.
Obviously decent but the race showed fencing hated the ground as it was slower than the maiden yesterday won by reckoning and that was only making its debut.You'd have to be nuts to be backing this in the future for anything,as its only a visual positive looks very nice but certainly no frankel at this point.
You'd have to be nuts to be backing this in the future for anything,as its only a visual positive looks very nice but certainly no frankel at this point.
While Camelot obviously beat nothing today I have to admit he did it in some style and he couldn´t have won any easier.
Whether he was a lay or not at the price today, he is defintely a lay at 3-1 or less for next years Derby.
Whether he was a lay or not at the price today, he is defintely a lay at 3-1 or less for next years Derby.
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