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20 Oct 11
22:20
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Date Joined:
30 Nov 10
The Irish dominate the ranks of jockeys in both codes yet the two greatest flat jockeys of all time were English,Fred Archer is so far back it is his record we admire but Lester Piggott for the old timers on here was as good as it gets.Lester grew up with horses and knew them inside out,he could ride from the front,he could ride from the back,he could ride hard and he could ride easy but he would be banned every day under these crazy new rules.There is one given in the current debate and that is horses respond to the whip,some need it some don`t and it was Lesters brilliance that he understood when the whip was necessary.
Watch Lesters rides on Petite Etoile and then contrast them with his ride on Roberto in the 1972 Derby and The Minstrel in the 1977 Derby both won with the whip,that was just great race riding.No one here can tell me that Lester was cruel or that he abused horses when he had a natural affinity with them.
Watch Lesters rides on Petite Etoile and then contrast them with his ride on Roberto in the 1972 Derby and The Minstrel in the 1977 Derby both won with the whip,that was just great race riding.No one here can tell me that Lester was cruel or that he abused horses when he had a natural affinity with them.
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You could say he knew when he needed to be cruel.
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Couldn't agree more wild. I backed Hot Grove in 1977 and Willie Carson gave him a great ride and I know for sure that no other jockey would have won on the Minstrel - it was a ride of sheer brilliance. In my opinion it's the best Derby finish ever.
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I go back to the early 60s when as far as I can remember there were no whip rules. I think some Irish-based jockeys caused the first problems at Cheltenham with some rather too obviously vicious overarm whipping. Piggott and some others may well have done the same on occasion but they were more stylish about it.
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Some of these do-gooders need to go to a Burghley (amongst others) then they will see some serious slaps. And also rather dodgy obstacles..
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Salmon Spray it was the 1980 Cheltenham festival,there were no whip rules at the time but the stewards decided on a clampdown without warning.The first race was the Sun Alliance Novice Hurdle which was won by the 5/2 favourite Drumlargan,he turned in vying for the lead with the rank outsider Farmer,he then hung badly and was heading for the stand when Ryan hit him on the jaw that straightened him up and in a driving finish ran on to win,to me and the thousands of Irish who backed him it was a vintage ride however the stewards referred him to Portman Square.Joe Byrne rode Batista the next day in The Triumph and got beat a shorthead,Joe the father of Josh Byrne was also referred to Portman Square for overuse of the whip.Their hearing took place on Power Gold Cup day in Ireland causing them to miss some fancied mounts,the result they were declared disqualified persons for three months,a savage injustice,they could not attend a race meeting or work in a racing stable during this time.
Breaking a horse can be cruel as you are trying to make a noble beast with spirit do things he doesn`t want to do,the bit in the mouth is not natural,the next stage to this madness is stop breaking horses and stop all racing.Many on the anti whip side are genuine but is that what they want. |
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The date sounds about right wildman. I did think one or two rides looked a bit much myself at the time,although that may be partly down to the lack of subtelty shall we say shown by the riders.
I think we have to accept that the old-fashioned whips have had their day but I agree that if the BHA stick to their position on this the days of ravcing in GB are numbered. A decade or three. |
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I absolutely agree with the thrust of this thread, but I am not sure that anyone now would think that Tommy's ride on Drumlargan was in any way acceptable.
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Salmon Spray...Correct it was the blow to the jaw that done for Ryan and looked bad and Byrnes ride made some of us wince.The problem started with jockeys riding shorter which means he does not have the full use of his legs to squeeze,kick and encourage his horse which makes them rely on the whip more and more.
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Blackbarn i accept your point,maybe the fact we all backed Drumlargan may have coloured our viewpoint.Drumlargan suffered no ill affects as he had a long career after culminating in a win in the Whitbread Gold Cup.
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Piggott beat the crap out of nice unbeaten 3yo filly of Henry Cecil's in the late 70's at the Great Met meeting. Gave it too much to do but by whipping it to death, got it to make up an impossible 5 lengths in the final furlong to win.
She never won again. |
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Hard to disagree with you Pedrobob after your thread of the year performance some days back[check it out best tip ever given here]but to me Lester Piggott was the greatest flat jockey i ever saw and while he knew how to use the stick he also knew when not to use it.
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hello wildman, how are you doing?
Lester used to give me heart attacks  with his daredevil rides . Vacarme (when he got disqualified at Goodwood), Royal Academy at the Breeders Cup .... |
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It is pretty clear that some of Lester's (and others of the period) mounts were not given time to respond.
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Agree that Lester could give a very sympathetic ride to an inexperienced filly (Hughes please note) but he could scare an older horse to the point of panic if he thought it would run any faster.
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