Oi, Paul Roy, look what I've just found...

Good find George, I was trying to find something like that before, when I posted that if anyone really cares we need to kill the horses and eat them.

George - can't argue with the poll..... except that in 2007 Ramsay was at the peak of his popularity. Therefore if they'd been asked if it was a good thing that Ramsay was serving human organs, a positive response would have been likely. Given that his currency has since wained, I'd imagine that support for eating whatever Ramsay's cooking now has wained too.

So we should then ignore public sentiment and perception on the basis that it is usually short term and easily influenced, such as basing it on an event on one saturday in April each year

Oh dear...Go for it Gallbladder.Put a £25000 deposit on every horse sold and the meat will be too expensive !

zilzal - no. I didn't say that, and if I thought such a thing, we'd be changing Governments every few months in the UK. It was merely an observation.

Well , in simple terms thats what this whip rule was based on. Are you telling me that we would be having this change if the BBC hadnt have shown Aerial shots of two dead racehorses live to god knows how many live viewers and the Newspaper reaction to it???

No zilzal. The new whip rule was introduced following the BHA's equivalent of a general election. In a way, all those eligible to vote decided that they wanted the new rules rather than the old. The net result is that we now have new rules that it appears that no one - whether pro-whip or anti-whip - really wants! A bit like the coalition givernment!

Well tell that to Paul Struthers then, because the emotive quote was "After the National there was a danger we would lose the RSPCA"  or words to that effect

Elections are nearly always called after a 'vote of no confidence' though. The RSPCA spoke, the BHA acted.

Ah now we are getting there. This vote of no confidence as you say, was based on a knee jerk reaction by the press over a camera angle.

If the RSPCA were to be listened to then Halal and Kosher meat would then be outlawed.

As ive said before, all that needed to be done was to make the Grand National a special case and comply for the race only, After all the PERCEPTION is that its nowdays a safer race when fatalities tell us different.

The reaction may well have been knee-jerk but the changes and the implementation of the changes was not - it's taken months to get here.

And less than a week to have a review

And if the Beeb show viewers more dead horses next year-then what???

A review of less than a week - now that is knee-jerk!

It makes me think that despite everything that's wrong with the new rules, the BHA won't make any further changes. If they do, and things go badly (as they're bound to with only a week to review) the whole lot at the BHA will have to go. I can't see them putting everything on the line.

this is a case of an organised MINORITY effecting change over a dissolute body (BHA), exploiting their weakness for incompetence and ineffectual leader ship. There is no overall public will for this and if the BHA had met this head on this mess would never have occurred.For every signature the animal rights lobby gets I am sure the BHA could have got 2 against their agenda if they could be bothered. What worries me is what happens when the inevitable happens and more horses die in the running of the national, maybe it wont be this year, or the next but it will happen eventually.

The problem with the National is that horses don't get enough experience of the fences and the jockeys go too fast.

Siting the first fence closer to the runners would help as they'd be unable to build up so much speed going into it, or failing that since the Melling Road is in the way moving the start line closer to the first.

More races over the fences would help too - there's only two that National horses can run in prior to the National and they're run on consecutive days.  Staging a 3m Handicap Chase over the big fences in January and one in Feb would certainly help matters in this regard

Seriously, I think that horsemeat is readily available in hotels and the like throughout the UK.

btw this is the same public perception that cheer lie fvck when a horse falls at the last imho

Years ago a horse of mine was put down at Perth when, I told the trainer that it was a goner he moaned

and said it should have been brought back as it would have made £300 as horesemeat. Fact

Fat Dodgy 19 Oct 11 07:14 
this is a case of an organised MINORITY effecting change over a dissolute body (BHA), exploiting their weakness for incompetence and ineffectual leader ship. There is no overall public will for this and if the BHA had met this head on this mess would never have occurred.For every signature the animal rights lobby gets I am sure the BHA could have got 2 against their agenda if they could be bothered.

FD you make it sound as though the RSPCA is some here today, gone tomorrow organisation! They are hugely respected, popular and influential. According to wiki their income for 2008 was nearly £120m and none of that came from state funding or from lottery money. Oh and an important racehorse owner happens to be the Royal Patron - HM Queen Elizabeth II!

The importance of keeping the RSPCA 'on side' cannot be over-estimated imo because if it ever came to the great British public needing to takes sides - RSPCA or 'racing' - there will only ever be one winner.

Gerry gets around. Not only is he Chair of Racing for Change but also the RSPCA.

so you think that this whip ban will stop horses dying in the National Gerry, cos I dont

I also think that the RSPCA do a great job and that the National is a cruel and unnecessary race, ban it by all means, but the new whip rules are not going to stop horses dying. I also think the RSPCA have had their hand forced by complaints from the public and has to be seen to act.

Just trying to provide a little balance to the arguments SS.

I mean, do you believe any part of this statement from FD: For every signature the animal rights lobby gets I am sure the BHA could have got 2 against their agenda if they could be bothered

yes, there are more fans of racing than detractors imo

It depends what they are asking Gerry and how they are asking it.
The RSPCA would probably like to see the GN stopped but are unlikely to want to put an end to flat racing,given that as I think you have pointed out elsewhere The Queen is their patron. Animal Aid and the like are a different matter. They are probably genuine about being non-violent so not quite the lunatic fringe,but not far away.

The RSPCA have categorically denied they want to see the whip banned Sammy. They have also stated that the vast majority of complaints about horse racing are after the running of the National....they are a reactionary organisation in the main acting, on information supplied to them by the public. I doubt even a Cape Blanco style ride would get that many complaints ig it happened here.

As ive said before, all that needed to be done was to make the Grand National a special case and comply for the race only, After all the PERCEPTION is that its nowdays a safer race when fatalities tell us different.

good point ....after all...if it's public perception we're worried about..sort out the only race the public watch.

exactly Duffy, they dont watch any other race ffs, yet when this joke of a race throws up more deaths further down the line we will be back to square one...