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18 Oct 11
20:25
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05 Jan 10
A jockey whipped me 'as hard as I'd hit a horse' and it didn't hurt
Racing insiders claim their foam-cushioned whip is designed to produce noise, not pain. Our reporter put it to the test
Greg Wood at Lingfield
guardian.co.uk,
A jockey's whip is not widely considered to be a wonder of modern technology to match the iPod or the mobile phone but perhaps it should be. "It's your job to educate people," Jim Crowley said at Lingfield Park on Tuesday, shortly before hitting me with one.
"The message needs to be got across. This has been blown up out of all proportion. Whips don't hurt horses."
It is a line that has been heard many times in the debate over the use of the whip, not least during the current controversy over the British Horseracing Authority's strict new regulations on its use. It is also an argument that many people, perhaps, still find a little difficult to believe. If it doesn't hurt, they say, why use it at all?
But Crowley is right. He hit me three times in quick succession on the palm of the hand yesterday afternoon, the third time "as hard as I'd ever hit a horse" and, thanks to the design of his lightweight, foam-cushioned whip, I scarcely felt a thing.
It has not always been like this. A decade or so ago a fairly gentle swish from a heavy, old-fashioned whip with a loop of leather at its tip would have produced a smack with a real sting. The modern equivalent, though, is all about noise rather than impact.
"A horse wouldn't feel it the same as a human," Crowley said. "They have a tough hide and it's covered with hair. This whip doesn't hurt a human, so it can't hurt a horse and these sticks have been tested and tested to show that they don't hurt the horse.
"There's no way a jockey would want to hurt a horse. The sticks nowadays are fantastic and designed to startle the horse with a loud bang. We use them to create that sound, which is what people don't realise, and that's the problem."
The lack of any pain from Crowley's strikes is so impressive that it is tempting to wonder whether jockeys should be encouraged to spread the message by hitting racegoers too. Better still, they could walk down Oxford Street hitting passers-by and, when they find that itdoesn't hurt, tell them to tell their friends.
"The palm of your hand is one of the most sensitive parts of your body," Crowley said. "You wouldn't want to have a tattoo there but, when you're hit with one of these whips, you hardly feel it.
"A friend of mine who was a soldier wanted to have a look at one of these. He wasn't involved in racing at all and his whole perception changed in one second by looking at one of these new whips and realising that they're padded and they don't hurt.
"The sticks are getting better and better all the time. They're all tested and they've all got serial numbers in. To be honest, the only problem I have with these sticks is that on a windy day, the wind catches them because they're so light."
Three strokes from a whip on the palm of the hand is hardly a controlled scientific experiment. For one thing it could be argued that Crowley, one of the most easy-going members of the weighing room, is simply too pleasant to launch a proper, full-blooded assault on anyone, even a journalist.
Ryan Moore or Kieren Fallon, by contrast, might apply themselves to the task with real venom. Having felt the best that Crowley could do, though, I would be happy to let them try.
"Hopefully the BHA will come around," Crowley said of the hasty review of the new rules that is due to conclude by the end of this week. "The jockeys just want what's right. The whole situation has been blown out of proportion but what the jockeys have put forward the BHA can hopefully bring into force."
Racing insiders claim their foam-cushioned whip is designed to produce noise, not pain. Our reporter put it to the test
Greg Wood at Lingfield
guardian.co.uk,
A jockey's whip is not widely considered to be a wonder of modern technology to match the iPod or the mobile phone but perhaps it should be. "It's your job to educate people," Jim Crowley said at Lingfield Park on Tuesday, shortly before hitting me with one.
"The message needs to be got across. This has been blown up out of all proportion. Whips don't hurt horses."
It is a line that has been heard many times in the debate over the use of the whip, not least during the current controversy over the British Horseracing Authority's strict new regulations on its use. It is also an argument that many people, perhaps, still find a little difficult to believe. If it doesn't hurt, they say, why use it at all?
But Crowley is right. He hit me three times in quick succession on the palm of the hand yesterday afternoon, the third time "as hard as I'd ever hit a horse" and, thanks to the design of his lightweight, foam-cushioned whip, I scarcely felt a thing.
It has not always been like this. A decade or so ago a fairly gentle swish from a heavy, old-fashioned whip with a loop of leather at its tip would have produced a smack with a real sting. The modern equivalent, though, is all about noise rather than impact.
"A horse wouldn't feel it the same as a human," Crowley said. "They have a tough hide and it's covered with hair. This whip doesn't hurt a human, so it can't hurt a horse and these sticks have been tested and tested to show that they don't hurt the horse.
"There's no way a jockey would want to hurt a horse. The sticks nowadays are fantastic and designed to startle the horse with a loud bang. We use them to create that sound, which is what people don't realise, and that's the problem."
The lack of any pain from Crowley's strikes is so impressive that it is tempting to wonder whether jockeys should be encouraged to spread the message by hitting racegoers too. Better still, they could walk down Oxford Street hitting passers-by and, when they find that itdoesn't hurt, tell them to tell their friends.
"The palm of your hand is one of the most sensitive parts of your body," Crowley said. "You wouldn't want to have a tattoo there but, when you're hit with one of these whips, you hardly feel it.
"A friend of mine who was a soldier wanted to have a look at one of these. He wasn't involved in racing at all and his whole perception changed in one second by looking at one of these new whips and realising that they're padded and they don't hurt.
"The sticks are getting better and better all the time. They're all tested and they've all got serial numbers in. To be honest, the only problem I have with these sticks is that on a windy day, the wind catches them because they're so light."
Three strokes from a whip on the palm of the hand is hardly a controlled scientific experiment. For one thing it could be argued that Crowley, one of the most easy-going members of the weighing room, is simply too pleasant to launch a proper, full-blooded assault on anyone, even a journalist.
Ryan Moore or Kieren Fallon, by contrast, might apply themselves to the task with real venom. Having felt the best that Crowley could do, though, I would be happy to let them try.
"Hopefully the BHA will come around," Crowley said of the hasty review of the new rules that is due to conclude by the end of this week. "The jockeys just want what's right. The whole situation has been blown out of proportion but what the jockeys have put forward the BHA can hopefully bring into force."
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wd AD good stuff
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"The message needs to be got across. This has been blown up out of all proportion. Whips don't hurt horses."
Pretty pointless statement tbph. It's his compadre's and the BHA'S own fault that this message wasn't drilled into the RSPCA at the beginning of this farce... Now they've opened the door to Lily and Benjamin from Hertfordshire, and all their accompanying cohorts, it's all too late. It won't stop now till Racing is dead and buried.. |
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Oh, and the jocks have lost any sympathy i had for them..
Close the weighing room door on the way out chappies.. |
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"Whips don't hurt horses."
is this goldie lookin chain's new song |
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Good find Anaglog..wonder how the anti-whip brigade will respond.
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My you are quick AD! I was just going to post same. Don´t you watch footie then?
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There will be people who will say that if whips don´t actually cause pain, and only make horses go faster by making a whooshing noise, then why don´t jockeys just have whistles?
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Now that would be really funny, TiptheOdds. Whistles going off at various pitches and lengths in the home straight.
I could make a fortune selling mp3s of it. |
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Told you before Tip, castanets
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crow scarer every furlong marker
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Jockeys would of course be limited to 7 blows per race...I´d love to see that rule enforced
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And for the benefit of the jockeys that claim they cant see the final furlong mark all the BHA have to do is put a different colour rail from the final furlong mark to the rail.
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I suppose in theory, if whips don´t actually cause any pain then why don´t jockeys just whip themselves on the leg - then they can´t get done!
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Very good idea Anaglogs
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7 blows "whip abuse"
6 just fine.. I do wonder if RFC thought up these numbers.. |
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*a different coloured rail from the final furlong mark to the winning post
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Or they could have a man waving a yellow...no a blue flag.
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Spot on by AD reporting and Jim for being forthright,posted the science verdict weeks ago and pilloried for it.
FEATHER DUSTERS and KEN DODD.nap The antis should not be near GAMBLING,RIDING,RACING........or young children or elderly people who require care and attention from adults engaged to prevent harm occurring to their charges.hth |
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The Queen should take 8 hits on her buttocks for the good of racing.
That would shut them up. |
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The queen takes more than that daily SS,still keeps dancing.Not sure how HRH would respond though.[;)]
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What I don't get is that if the whip does not hurt ,as seems to be the case ,then surely the BHA and RSPCA knows this. And if they do know this then surely the correct thing to do would be to show a video to the public of a human being 'hit' with this whip and it doesn't harm/ hurt.
This is all the education the public would need. Then no need for these silly new rules , just stricter punishments for the riders whipping already exhausted horses, not horses still giving plenty. The fact that they must know this and still made these ridiculous amendments to the sport really seems a massive own-goal . They don't make these sort of mistakes really ,do they ? |
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Kefir,they do know.All pandering to false "public opinion".nap
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But why would they make such a massive own goal,Glentoby, if they know this ?
Easier to show that the whip is cushioned with foam and does not hurt, what ? Is there a conspiracy to undermine racing and cause it to fall ? I think AD has already wondered this too.. |
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They have spent a lot of money (RFC) and shown no return.BHA supported them and now trying redemption.
Failed to catch all the NON TRIERS in the past. EASY adjustment CATCH and BAN TRIERS,the public appeased? OWN GOAL,AGAIN. RFC & BHA........= same Hymn Sheet. Just one Question for both,and i will stand and wait for the prosecution,of me,or the offender. WHY? Has Oscar not been warned off,WHEN are you going to act? (ok2 Qs) Several forumites know the individual. Open Question BHA and RFC,they know,we know. Answer? |
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just playing devils advocate...but the bit about ...being designed to startle the horse with a load bang would be construed as cruel by some.
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if only we had this when hibby and i had that little barney!!
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Some of these Animal Aid mob are sitting on top of scaffolding in Dale Farm, start dismantling it from the bottom up with a JCB
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Soumillon agent claims whip rules 'health and safety issue'
By JA McGrath http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/ Wednesday October 19 2011 The raging controversy over the new whip regulations is unlikely to go away just yet, even if the British Horseracing Authority comes up with a compromise solution to jockeys' proposals by Friday. Yesterday, Christophe Soumillon was informed that his appeal against losing his £53,000 winning percentage and his riding fee, as well as being suspended after Saturday's Qipco Champion Stakes at Ascot, is to be heard in London next week. This will be one of the most interesting appeal cases in recent times, as Soumillon is expected to argue that he gave his mount Cirrus Des Aigles one too many hits inside the final furlong because he was unable to clearly see the one-furlong marker owing to the sponsors' branding. Shippy Ellis, Soumillon's British agent, has been outspoken on the issue, strongly expressing the view that when a jockey is under pressure at the furlong pole, just as the race is coming to a climax, he should not be distracted by having to start searching for an identification pole inside the running rail. "It could pose a danger to other horses and riders, and is almost a health and safety issue," he said. Also on next week's BHA disciplinary agenda is Richard Hughes' appeal against the five-day ban he received for his ride on Swift Blade at Salisbury last -- the day the new regulations came into force. This, too, was triggered by the jockey using the whip too many times inside the final furlong, and Hughes has since handed in his licence, having received another whip ban two days later. Nine National Hunt jockeys head to BHA headquarters today to hear their appeals against being banned for failing to pull up after a race had been stopped at Wetherby last week. The nine -- Tony McCoy, Graham Lee, Paddy Brennan, Danny Cook, Jonathon Bewley, Denis O'Regan, Alexander Voy, Brian Hughes and Brian Toomey -- were suspended for 10 days for ignoring a yellow flag. Meanwhile, Joseph O'Brien is likely to partner hot favourite Camelot in the Racing Post Trophy at Doncaster on Saturday. Ryan Moore, who is understood to have indicated his readiness to make Ballydoyle his first commitment next year, remains retained by Michael Stoute and will ride the promising Tales Of Grimm at Newbury on the same afternoon. Trainer Roger Varian said yesterday that Farraaj is likely to be among Camelot's opponents and he also indicated that Nahrain could take her unbeaten record to the Breeders' Cup meeting following her success on Prix de l'Arc day. "She has come out of her race in France very well, and the Filly and Mare Turf is something we are considering," he said. "It's far from concrete, and we don't have to confirm until Monday, but there would be nothing in the filly herself to discourage us." (© Daily Telegraph, London) - JA McGrath |
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David Pipe says controversial new whip rules will change training
• Top jumps trainer was not consulted during review • Tom Molloy becomes latest jockey to be banned Greg Wood guardian.co.uk, David Pipe, who runs one of the country's most famous and successful jump racing yards, said on Tuesday that "there doesn't appear to have been enough thought" into the sport's controversial new rules on the use of the whip and suggested that the new regulations may change the type of horses that he buys at the sales. "You're going to have to look at things differently as a trainer," Pipe, the son of the former champion trainer, Martin, said in an interview on At The Races. "You're going to have to look at the horses you buy, the races you run them in and the track, depending on if you've got a free-going sort or a lazy individual. There's lots of things you're going to have to take into account. "It's fairly bad timing bringing this rule in now. I don't know the ins and outs, I wasn't consulted, but there doesn't appear to have been enough thought put into it, basically. I would have thought my father would be good on a lot of these panels but he's never been asked." Tom Molloy was the latest jockey to breach the new rules on Tuesday, when he was banned for seven days for using his whip with excessive frequency on Rory Boy in a handicap chase at Exeter. Two appeals against bans and fines handed down under the new rules will be heard next week. Christophe Soumillon will appeal against his suspension following the Champion Stakes on Saturday, while Richard Hughes will appeal against a five-day ban imposed by the Salisbury stewards last week. |
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BHA and media whipping up a ridiculous storm
Pat Keane: The Voice of Racing Saturday, April 30, 2011 ANYONE else sick to death of the waffle regarding the use of the whip by jockeys in Britain? A combination of the British Horseracing Authority and the Racing Post has driven the debate to such an extent that there is more than a possibility that, by the time they are finished, racing will be unrecognisable. Then we had those running Towcester racecourse wanting to go on a solo run and bring in their own rules governing the use of the whip. Towcester, from their meeting on October 5, thought it would be a good idea to allow jockeys to carry whips, but they could only be used for hitting horses in front of the saddle, as a steering tool. If their rules were breached, the horse would be disqualified. You have others demanding that horses be disqualified if the jockey is found to have used his whip excessively, that is under the current rules. Entirely unworkable, of course, and a recipe for disaster, but then there are lunatics in every walk of life. The BHA is currently conducting what they describe as "an extensive consultation on the regulation of the whip, which will include whether to allow its use in races for only safety and correction." If that was to become law it would surely be utterly impossible to police. A jockey comes in after a race and says he thought his horse was going to hang, or duck, or run out, whatever came to mind first. He claims he had to hit it for safety and correction, but when the connection was made the beastie shot forward. As a result he won the race. Obviously an inquiry would then follow and punters would be left dangling until the result was announced. It would be utterly chaotic, totally unsatisfactory and bring the game into disrepute. Anyway, whatever about the BHA and the crazy attitude of Towcester, why is the Racing Post behaving as it is? They wheeled out David Ashforth to fire the bullets. Now I've met Ashforth and found him a mild-mannered and particularly nice man. But Ashforth is no more an expert on the whip than I am, or indeed the countless other men and women who write about racing in Britain and Ireland every day. There is no mystery as to who the experts are when it comes to this subject. They are jockeys and ex-jockeys. When you have a problem with water in your home you call a plumber - not a painter. Personally, I take my lead on the whip issue from listening to the likes of Ruby Walsh, Tony McCoy, Richard Johnson and Kieren Fallon. They have all come out in recent days in favour of the whip and the current guidelines. Walsh, in his column in this paper last Saturday, called on racing to stand up for itself. He also said he had no doubt but that the results of races would be changed if the whip was banned, or restricted. The Racing Post is the voice of racing, or at least it should be, so what the hell are they at? They would argue, I'm sure, that their coverage has been balanced, but was all of what they have produced in recent days necessary in the first place? For whom are they writing? Certainly not for me - and I buy the paper seven days a week - and, one suspects, not for most of their regular readers either. At a recent meeting at Towcester, the Post went to the trouble of canvassing a number of racegoers about the whip. They asked 14 people and nearly all of them said it was not an issue with them. And it is not an issue with the vast majority of people who have an ongoing interest in the game. And yet the Post continues to beat a drum which, I think, absolutely infuriates its core readership. Some of the rubbish they have subjected us to of late would go down well with those who want the whip banned completely and who also want National Hunt racing banned. But you can be certain they aren't even reading what's on offer and never, ever buy the Post. You just have to despair at the whole thing, at the BHA, Towcester and the Racing Post joining forces to whip up a storm which is almost entirely of their own making. We may have banjaxed our own country, at least the politicians, bankers and developers managed it, but are far too intelligent to travel down the British road when it comes to racing. Galway in July will attract probably in excess of 150,000 patrons. Bet a pound to a penny you will not hear the whip being mentioned once. But the Brits seem determined to continue to shoot themselves in the foot, without the slightest notion, it seems, as to where it is all going to end. Let's hope those who run the game here at home are made of sterner stuff. Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/sport/columnists/pat-keane/bha-and-media-whipping-up-a-ridiculous-storm-153138.html#ixzz1bDlZGjmc |
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so 'greg' is the whipping boy now.
what a load of cobblers, if crowley had hit him just inside the stifle, which so many do, greg would have felt it and written to the effect with tears streaming down his cheeks. i've wathced ther butchers perform, 'they' are THE reason why we are in this predicament now, just as much as anything else. as for appeasement, forget it because 'rentamob' is only an antagonistic group; stand up like men, you in the BHA and police it yourself, to hell with the 'do-gooders!' |
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sportinglife.com
The Professional Jockeys Association have called for urgent progress to be made in amending the new whip rules. The body and some senior riders met with the BHA on Monday to discuss the situation but the governing body are awaiting a response from their Review Group. This is expected by Friday at the latest. PJA Chief Executive Kevin Darley said: "There is now a process of proper consultation and discussion involving Jockeys which should have happened before the original announcement by the British Horseracing Authority last month. Had we been properly consulted over some of the important details that relate directly to Jockeys prior to that announcement we feel that we would not be in the position we are today. "Jockeys have no issues with the restricted amount of times they can use the whip under the new rules. The careers of Jockeys are short by definition and the implications of financial penalties and long suspensions are savagely disproportionate." Senior Jockeys Frankie Dettori and Tony McCoy, who were quoted in the BHA news announcement last month, say they were asked to show their support by the BHA in the best interests of the sport. They have now acknowledged that they wouldn't have agreed to the quotes had they and the PJA been given the time to consider the full implications and practical consequences of the new rules and penalties. The two Jockeys said in a stament: "In hindsight we would like to have given more thought and consideration to the new rules before commenting. We didn't give them properly informed approval and we really do wish the BHA would stop saying that we did." |
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Frankie Dettori & Tony McCoy "In hindsight we would like to have given more thought and consideration to the new rules before commenting. We didn't give them properly informed approval and we really do wish the BHA would stop saying that we did."
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That goes for egner too they added.
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Even if it doesn't hurt them they run faster because they're afraid of it. Why are they afraid of it? Probably because they're hit with the real mccoy at home to instill that fear. As I said on another thread, if you had a pack of wolves run alongside them behind a glass screen none of the horses would be hurt but they'd run faster as they'd be in a state of fear and panic. It's only a matter of time before we'll see another drop dead after they've responded beyond their limit because they don't understand the wolves (sorry "feather duster") can't harm them. It's you traditionalist w@nkers with your dread of change that will bring about the death of racing.
On Monday I lost 16K when Dancing Freddy was beaten in a photo by Adrian Nichols mount which was given 3 extra slaps. Had there been no whip DF would probably have won. Had there been no limit it might also have won but, more often than not, I'm rarely on the one that suffers the excess because betfair's stupid interface allows insiders to monopolise trade on their gambles. The whip's a cheats charter which is why the cheats want to hang on to it. Ban the fkng thing now. |
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Would all BHA "Fifths" please keep to one thread.
Im going to say this one last time(and with the caps lock on" THE RSPCA HAD TO ACT AFTER THE MEDIA FRENZY WHERE TWO DEAD HORSES WERE SHOWED LYING ON THE GROUND DUE TO AN AERIAL CAMERA ANGLE, IF THIS HAPPEN'S NEXT YEAR IT WON'T MATTER HOW MANY TIMES THE WHIP WAS USED. THERE WILL BE CALLS TO BAN THE RACE THANK YOU |
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"Jockeys have no issues with the restricted amount of times they can use the whip under the new rules. The careers of Jockeys are short by definition and the implications of financial penalties and long suspensions are savagely disproportionate."
So they're only concerned about their pockets and not the flawed restrictions on the whip? |
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zilzal1 19 Oct 11 13:04
Would all BHA "Fifths" please keep to one thread. And yet you do not entreat those who agree with you to "please keep to one thread" yfsc. If the whip is indeed this air-cushioned feather-duster that so many claim it is, why is it necessary to use it? How can this child's toy keep a several-tonne beast from running off-line? Is it the sound of the whip being flailed and used? If so, why not use castanets or some other percussive device? FWIW I am agnostic on this issue, but if those who wish to keep the status quo would not talk so much utter poke they would do their cause more good imo. |
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Excellent article, well done AD.
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