Racing Fcuked

Seconded

A bigger laughing stock for the fine Henderson got or for the one Soumillon got iyo?

Soumillion fine was about right imo...

Henderson should have been banned for six months and at least £300,000 fine.

if i was a jock i would pack it in




I'm a punter and genuinely thinking of packing this sh!t in. Every race, you can see by the jockeys actions, they're not riding as they should.


Let all tree huggers squeal with frustration because there's no liquidity.

egner has admitted he has no real interest in Horse Racing.

tour right their stewarty,couple of hits early on,and thats it if they dont fancy it and wont risk docked pay

Hendo should have been taught a lesson not had his pocket money taken off him

Soumillion loses £53 for doing his job for his owners

No justice , a class 6 race with the same offence the jock loses 200 quid , its a fkn joke they see fit to have such  vastly diff penalties for exactly the same offence

Is this how the BHA are trying to attract international runners , what a shower of clueless *****

ditto,stewarty

sorry £53000 should read

Judging by his posts I doubt this egner character ever has a bet.
Just spends all day posting annoying and ridiculous shyte on here all day
Anyone who puts their money down wants to see there horse given the best chance.
They do not not witness jockeys who could win give up because they have used their allocation of strokes.
Ferkkin joke of a sport now

here here should fine all jocks breaking the rules £52k imo[;)]

stewarty b Joined: 02 Aug 02
Replies: 3373 18 Oct 11 17:12   
if i was a jock i would pack it in




I'm a punter and genuinely thinking of packing this sh!t in. Every race, you can see by the jockeys actions, they're not riding as they should.


Let all tree huggers squeal with frustration because there's no liquidity.

...first of all there is plenty of liquidity......

and second....am i a "tree hugger " because i dont want to see horses whipped 15..16...17 times in the last couple of fulongs when they are exhausted??????!!!!

No one is saying they want horses whipped to death , only that they want the horse they bet to be given every chance ,

And the punishments to be the same across the board

then why not ban the whip altogether.....

..a level playing field and no need for bans/penalties.

Ban tackles in football.
Ban head punches in boxing.
Turn Rugby into basketball without the elbowing.
Simples

People like you who want to ruin this sport make me sick
If you dont bet and dont like the sport why are you on here ?
You clearly know nothing about race riding or betting on horses
Why dont you fekk off and post your ignorant garbage on chit chat or poker you fekkin moron

I do belive the rules are the same for each jockey riding in a race.
Therefore i have no problem betting.
We win some and lose more,and that wont change whatever the rules re the whip.

I will though take a bit more notice of certain horses and how they react to encouragement from the saddle before parting with my money.
Pretty sure some horses need more stoking than others,otherwise we would have no need for debate,so guess we have to wager accordingly.

Jimmy Quinn won the last with hands and heels [;)]

egner
18 Oct 11 17:24   

then why not ban the whip altogether.....

..a level playing field and no need for bans/penalties.

The whip is also a steering aid and a warning to get difficult horses into the race , so in that vein maybe the BHA should introduce lanes and ban horses which show ungenuine tendancies

peter the painter..

is that really necessary......i would prefer a total whip ban and you disagree.....

..thats fair enough...but all along i have put my view across in a reasonable and decent manner while respecting others opinions.

Hello if they banned all horses that were ungenuine we would end up with 5 horses in each race. The whip helps level that playing field.

Firery fred this

As a big NH fan i personally would not like the whip banned,but at the same time i dont want the sport going the same way as Fox Hunting has.
At the moment we have new whip rules that dont seem to be working.I doubt very much if we will go back to how it was a few weeks back,so where does that leave us??
Either someone comes up with a solution that involves using the whip that keeps everyone happy,or we just may have to do away with whip usage,and just have it for steering purposes.
Whatever we do,we must not risk losing the sport altogether.

The whole episode is a complete farce. I do not even understand why  the rule changed and become eleviated within the media. This Quote is like a feather duster (i think Queelen said that not sure) so why all the fuss.???? The thing does not cause stress or damage. Twenty years ago whips used to have steel rods or fibreglass running through them, now they hurt but there was never any fuss. So with a very light weight whip which is an air tube why change anything????

The whip doesn't cause the horse distress, the only distress a racehorse feels is from it's own over bred brain box.

Most thoroughbreds are tense, edgy, evil feckers, they are horrible horrible personalities, if anyone is really bothered instead of banning/restricting the whip we may as well ban the sport completely, kill all the current horses and eat them.

Henderson trains for The Queen and has a posh voice , Soumillion is Belgian .........next time the BBC does racing they should get one of these sticks with a sponge on the end (aka whip) and let Claire give Willie a few whacks to prove how inoffensive it really is.

If things do NOT change we need sponsors to start pulling the plug and have so balls to do the same. If you were Qipco would you be a contented little bunny? As regards egner, and yes I do respect his views, what do you think is going to happen to the less straight forward animal? We all know Belgium and the butchers await. They have a little more chance if corrected and if the whip is used. As I've mentioned on numerous occasions there are much much worse animal welfare issues. Transport to the continent being one. Butchery overseas another. Open your eyes. The BHA simply will not change. This whole sordid episode is dying a death and with it the integrity of racing.

Racing is fckued for many reasons but I don't think all this outcry about whip rules has anything to do with it

Shame there isn't the same debate about the things that really are killing the sport like

GPT
TV
Going reports
Corruption

and of course

Too much racing

Why are those involved with the sport doing very little? It took the BHA all these months to come up with this rule, that to most serious racing people had major flaws. Did the BHA try to pull a fast one on the jockeys with the prize money issue? It must have been a late decision because no one knows what to do with the money.Come on people in racing do something now it's your livelihoods ffs

They are doing very little because racing's Prime Direcive is Do Not Rock the Boat.

councillor
18 Oct 11 17:46   
Hello if they banned all horses that were ungenuine we would end up with 5 horses in each race. The whip helps level that playing field.

Yeah i know mate , was just being sarcastic earlier

Something needs to be done , never seen such dissary or beratement of this sport , never seen such poor racing , never seen such hard to understand legislation , never seen the rules open up to the hands of non triers ,

Never seen such poor running of a sport where jocks who rise to the top and draw crowds are punished 50 times more than run of the mill jocks for exactly the same offence 

never seen the sport work so against honest owners

Thanks for everything BHA

Steamship Joined: 01 Apr 10
Replies: 1372 18 Oct 11 18:16   
Why are those involved with the sport doing very little? It took the BHA all these months to come up with this rule, that to most serious racing people had major flaws. Did the BHA try to pull a fast one on the jockeys with the prize money issue? It must have been a late decision because no one knows what to do with the money.Come on people in racing do something now it's your livelihoods ffs

McCoy, the Grand National winning, 16-time champion jump jockey, added: ‘The Professional Jockeys Association has worked closely with the Authority on the BHA review and I hope my colleagues will embrace the  proposed changes as they are in the best interest of the sport. I, for one, support the changes.’

Dettori, who was banned for nine days for hitting Rewilding 24 times in the last two furlongs when he won the Prince of Wales’s Stakes at Royal Ascot in June, said: ‘I am not proud of having fallen foul of the whip rules in the past but I have never harmed a horse. These new rules are easy to understand which will help jockeys ride within them.
‘I accept these new rules are in the best interest of our great sport.’

Sir Henry Cecil, 10-times champion Flat trainer, added: "The BHA has done an excellent, thorough job with their review and I welcome these changes, which will hopefully serve British Racing well."

Paul Nicholls, champion jumps trainer for the last six years, said: "Whilst I've been a critic of the rules in the past, nobody likes seeing misuse of the whip and I agree that the time had come when something had to be done.

"I am pleased that the BHA has made sensible and reasonable changes, and I am supportive of them."

some serious racing people were more than happy with the proposals.

What a croc of sh1t ^^^^

they are ACTUAL quotes stewarty b.

mornings

I doubt whether the people who made these quotes fully understood the impact they would have on raceriding at the time of making them or indeed the financial aspect

One example....."Tony McCoy hits out at new whip rules on first day for jumps racing" taken from the guardian ,

Post got delated there. But 'll give 80% of my buisness to football from now on.

Good to see the quotes egner - amazing how so many have turned against their original comments so quickly. The other interesting one was the official PJA statement which said they fully supported the new rules. Not a fan of the BHA but on this one I am surprised they have not made more mileage out of the original supportive comments from a PR perspective. Bottom line is neither the BHA or PJA appear fit for purpose.

I doubt whether the people who made these quotes fully understood the impact they would have on raceriding at the time of making them or indeed the financial aspect

Then they are stupid. If the rules are changed,and these jockeys and trainers again come out with their unequivocal support, what confidence can we have that they mean it?!! It's not just the integrity of the BHA that is in question on this issue imo

thats it then the game is over swan kay

Six  taps 5 taps ..it dont matter give me odds the whip will be banned  unless for correction......the RSPA ...For me its long odds on  sooner or later ..

i say 18 Oct 11 18:44
Good to see the quotes egner - amazing how so many have turned against their original comments so quickly.



Spot on i say. These cvnts don't give a toss about punters.



But trust me on this point, the corrupton will get worse. ie. " I couldn't whip it one more time Guver'nor, I'd used up all my credit......

All the BHA have proved is that they are totally ignorant about gambling. A cheat's licence. That is all the rules are. And if the people who think the whip should be banned cannot see that they are not gamblers they are losers.

Of course there is nothing wrong with being a loser but do not impose it on everyone else, thank you.

Stew if you think its bent  .. the best thing is to stay away . jumps for me are lay only

Problem is Brigust,the rules have changed and are not at all popular,and they aint going to backtrack i would think.
So whats the answer my friend??
Cos i dont think this is going away mate.

so brigust.....

..because my view is that the whip should be banned i am a loser and my view is also going to force you to become a loser !!!!!!!

really ??????

Racing isn't bent. But sadly there are some, let me say, shady areas. I thought the BHA was committed to ensuring racing was as clean as possible. Then, all of a sudden, they put into place a rule where cheat's can prosper.

A lot of these races I don't bet in anyway but that doesn't mean I am happy to see the sport I love spiral downhill as a cheat's playground. Every time a jockey refuses to use his whip at the business end of a race no-one knows whether that is to his/her financial benefit or detrement. That cannot be right.

The BHA have now put themselves and us to a degree where it is a no win situation

its either go back to the old rules and police it or completely ban the whip as the present rule we have does nobody any favours

the non triers have a get out

the triers can only try so much

what a balls up......................

I agree with the last bit stewarty b

They can still push them out all the way to the line,horses do respond to that,not just the whip.
I would think a non trier will still be pretty easy to spot for an educated steward.

Yes really Egner. The whip is the only way of knowing whether a horse is running to its full potential. If you back or lay horses for a profit then you will not want anything to come along that will change that. Especially something completely untested.
You, Egner, therefore by default must be a loser. Otherwise, as I stated, you would be in fear of losing your profit.

Budd, I don't bet in these races and am very particular the races I do bet in but this will definately need to be watched closely. I do this for a living and now my income is being put at risk. It is scary. The BHA members are well paid so it does not matter a flying fig to them.

I would think a non trier will still be pretty easy to spot for an educated steward.


Oh dear me



every race course  everyday imo

Guess you will have to study your horses a lot more closely Brig,and maybe swerve away from those that have a reputation for needing a lot of stoking.
I am sure us gamblers can find a way to carry on enjoying the game,whatever the BHA throw at us.

stewarty .. that is a cracking point you made earlier. Nobody knows now and much easier not to try than to try.

What does an educated steward look like  apart foom abrown nose

if you take money over horses getting abused then you are a sad man

11kv,take yer point,but really they ought to be able to spot them,its part of their job after all

I WANT TO SEE A JOCKEY TRY ITS HARDEST UNDER THE CURRENT RULES

Shouldn't they also be banning them for not trying even if they have used up the jockeys aid allowance?

First thing get rid of handicap races we need an usa style system

You may be right Bud but the stewards aren't doing anything. Watch the first race at Yarmouth today. About 7 or 8 horses were bunched at the furlong pole, the two main contenders went clear and the est just gave up. Outstanding. The stewards cannot force the jockeys to whip their mounts and I don't think any of them even used the one hit, by the furlong pole they had no chance of winning so gave up. But how many times, in the past, have horses led and looked all over the winner at the furlong pole, traded at 1.01 etc then got collared.
As I said I don't bet in these grade races but the form will carry through to the better races and then confusion will reign.

theres some right shrewdies on here,they moved from winning money by having pictures 6 secs faster and laying fallers and dead horses,and are now going to decide which horses will and wont be better for an extra crack wiv a whip,which  they spend all day telling us the horse can hardly feel

They I hope do spot them,and anyone who watches racing regulary should be able to spot them
however proving the fact is very difficult  which is why not many are done for it

the latest whip rules help the darkside in racing more than its helping the horse imo

[i]buddeliea 18 Oct 11 19:14
They can still push them out all the way to the line,horses do respond to that,not just the whip.
rd.[I would think a non trier will still be pretty easy to spot for an educated steward/i]




An educated steward??? Very thin on the ground. How much did Frankie lose comared to CS in the big race on saturday? FVcking disgrace. Yes, I know the rules have changes since Frankie's ride, but one love tap and you ;lose 50K????


The tree huggers will no doubt be happy with that one extra love tap.

Lots of pocket talkers on here infact its not the bha thats wrong its the punters they treat racing likr s fruit machine its a sport and it shouldnt be treated as a gambling thing its a sport thing its an equestrianism sport a sport that i love and dont bet on so dont give me  your bookie talk

Ffs Makeelah. If we don't bet on horse, eventually they will be sent off to the knackers yard. Do-gooders, why don't they just clear off and mind their own business.

I remember the do-gooders releasing mink in the wild. Now they are pests and have wiped out many, many more areas of wildlife than the pratts thought they were saving.

1ST block for me ^

The BHA have brought the house of cards down by giving profile to this topic and now the media are crawling all over it. If the rule ends up being reversed there will be hue and cry form all areas including the RSPCA and animal rights organisations. I think the BHA idiots who pushed for this change should resign. The reason for the fence sitting now is that non of them are prepared to. Once you have opened Pandoras box how do you put a lid on it?????


By the way just in case of any comments, I have never been introduced to Pandora but she sounds interesting.

brigust1 18 Oct 11 19:27 
Ffs Makeelah. If we don't bet on horse, eventually they will be sent off to the knackers yard. Do-gooders, why don't they just clear off and mind their own business.

No way will racehorses be sent to the knackers yard; their owners love 'em too much and will ensure that they have a safe, happy and hopefully long retirement after racing. I am right in thinking this aren't I?

Well if the stewards cannot do the job they are paid for,then they along with the BHA are in serious danger of fecking up this sport for the lot of us.
We have to have proper regulations being upheld in a gambling sport,otherwise its open to cheating,(which goes on to some extent anyway),and if we dont then the honest racing loving people will stop gambling and the sport will cease to exist.

The sport has changed but the BHA are still stuck in their ways

us and them

doff your cap

aye sir.

im not a do gooder i dont see why people are complaining the rules are there when rules are introduced into other sports people dont complain

the rules may be wrong but they are there at the moment but there has to be a solution

perosonally if a jockey breaks the whip rules he should be demoted to last. you cant win by breaking rules its morally wrong rewilding should have been throwing out of the prince of wales

gambling sport every sport is a gambling sport imo

the fact is if these people are so worried why are they betting on it then theres plenty of racing elsewhere

no one forces you to bet on uk racing

one thing i disagree on and is double standards by the bha is why have they not banned steeplechase when horse die over steeplechases and ive never heard of a horse die from the whip

but the rules they have in place i believe can be good for the game

That is exactly what I have been on about all along Budd. I have been involved with horse racing since I was 16. I've seen some awful things done to horses and done by horses. They can be extremely kind and rewarding and they can be really awful.

However horse racing is an industry or sport and it cannot survive by donation alone. It has a history that goes back further than almost any other sport in this country and that should be cherished.

No-one, me included, wants to see the Ballabrigs or Royal Rebel rides. But I do want to see the cream come to the top and I definitely don't want to see cheat's robbing genuine people of their money.

Banning the whip may be a suggestion from some but they, in my opinion, are misguided. The BHA are trying to increase the number of runners they can from other countries but that would be a deterent. The sponsors would dry up and so would TV. Then the racing channels etc etc. It is a slippery slope.

Keep the whip. Punish the abusers fairly but severly. Encourage success and punish non triers.

Of course this suits my gambling philosophy and I am not going to apologise for that. Everyone on this forum is speaking for themselves I am no different.

Keep the whip. Punish the abusers fairly but severly. Encourage success and punish non triers.

...i could agree with this wholeheartedly brigust...

BUT...history has shown the BHA to have been utterly lacking in the resolve to punish the abusers....and the abusers have been encouraged by this to keep flouting and in some cases simply ignoring the rules.

..whose to say it will be any different if the old rules are reinstated.

Well personally i would go back to the rules as they were a week or so ago,but i doubt they will and with the new rules not seeming to work,we have to find a way to please the majority,otherwise i fear a total ban will be the only answer.
what a fecking mess!!

So we have somebody saying that banning the whip would be good for the game,then that jump racing should be banned because horses get killed.
He really has got the interests of the game at heart hasn`t he ?

...i think he is an idealist who has the interest of the horses at heart......

..nothing wrong in that really.

Not that i would go as far as banning NH.

It`s the agenda of your friends at Animal Aid renge. First the whip,then the GN,then all jumps racing,then the flat. THAT`S WHAT THEY WANT

Egner I don't think the whip abuse is as bad as is made out. I have listed 2 horses I was particularly unhappy about and one was racing nearly 10 years ago. The BHA has created a mountain out of a molehill.

They should have gradually, over a couple of years increased the punishments until eventually the punishment was to be expected. No-one except the perpetrators would know about it and eventually everyone riding would be well versed in the punishment scale.

To do this just before Champions Day and to this level is totally inept and heads should roll.

...they are not my friends salmon and i have a mind of my own.....

imo they are right to hihglight the whip abuses and the quite frankly flimsy action taken against those abuses.......but i would never suscribe to their view of banning NH or any other racing.

Fair enough renge. I appreciate you have a view and are showing some courage and some consistency in putting it forward. You DO need to be careful who you quote though. That lot are not the RSPCA. They may not be quite the lunatic fringe but they`re not that far away.

..well...its just a point of view....thats all......

..and lets face it...it no weight with those who are going to eventually decide these matters...so im certain a compromise will be reached and the whip will stay in some form..

maybe 8 hits in total during the whole race....the furlong pole restriction being scrapped.....

something like that.

Its a shame honest owners who love the sport and have supported it for years are forced to watch thier horses race for pennies and and now face losing the biggest and happiest day they can have for the sake of one crack of the whip ,

Whilst the crooks can now claim they were acting within the rules


What a total mess , meanwhile the BHA carry on regardless tearing the sport to shreds

No limit.
They can return to the old rules but no limit.
Telling someone they can hit 8 times will mean lots of people, on here as well, asking why they never hit it 8 times. There should be no limit but ever increasing penalties for rides where the whip was used wrongly or indescrimately. There should be no restriction from trying to win only an ever increasing punishment for winning at all costs.

I had four bets today. Three seconds and a nowhere. I cannot say if  Iwould have won with the new rules, but this I am sure of, I would have broke even instead of down a few quid.

And, I'm not pocket talking.


Antways, there's a good forumite on here who has made a right few bob out of betting. (mainly on horse) He told me that he would be up far more if the new rules had been introduced earlier.

He also told me he doesn't punt much over the jumps through cruelty.

ban National Hunt - It was the coutry billions. It is an industry on its own. It employs thousand and creates jobs constantly. Send that one to the exchequer he will file the e mail in the bin

Where does the word cruelty come from. Most people love their horses and would never be cruel to them and I am talking from experience here. Its not cruel for a horse to jump something and the whips are so light they dont harm the horse at all.There are more people around that are cruel to animals just leave the professional sport of horse racing out of that.

My post went haywire there, but all I would say is this.....''no whip, or let the Jockeys decide%. (IMHO)

do you think steeplechases should be banned and all races over hurdles

that would mean no cross country races and i love cross country

Horses are animals , they cannot tell us what they think , but if the whip affected them that much surely they would react towards the sheer sight of it ,

i respect the work the RSPCA and understand thier point , but its part of the sport and part of the system which controls a horse ,

what next , dogs wont be allowed leads so they can make thier own choices

cats wont be allowed bells incase thier hearing is affected

Guinea pigs only allowed organic lettuce

rode a horse in a cross country event once, and I can safely say he never enjoyed anything more in his life.
People who think horses don't like to jump would be misguided based on that experience.... and I didn't need to use a stick, in fact he was going way too fast for my liking.

Wonder if the BHA will get their PR outfit in to quantify the damage already done to the good name of this great sport over the last fortnight? COME RACING.

Judging by his posts I doubt this egner character ever has a bet.
Just spends all day posting annoying and ridiculous shyte on here all day

Well said, Peter the Painter

I think trainers should get a £50,000 fine when their horses aren't "off"