So You Think - Champion Stakes

Didnt have a hard race in the Arc , was never in the real action so dont let that bother you.

If it doesn't win this practically on the bridle (everything in it's favour, trip/ground/strength of oppo) then they may as well send it back to Aus. The Aussies on here have said all along that it needs more racing to show it's best so the small gap should be well in it's favour if that is right.

yes , a standout bet, unload

Big shout and will be ridden closer 2 the pace(if there is any?)
I hope that 1 of them make it a solid pace( Casamento poss?)
However he gets on SYT, he wont be winning it on the bridle, thats for sure. This is a top field and whoever comes out on top will be flat out 2 do so. On the likely fast ground i would make Dubai Prince
and Midday the biggest dangers at the moment.

Has to win this to have any credibility to be considered a top flight horse because despite what has been said, I don't think the opposition is anything special regardless of the number of races they have won. As good tough and genuine as they are, are Midday and Twice Over really top notch horses?

Plus I found it quite interesting and I know all horse are different but Annemarie O'Brien said something along the lines of the race has come to soon for Await The Dawn despite that one not having raced for 2 months and So You Think having raced little over 2 weeks ago, unless she was talking about something other than in connection to when the horse last raced. I'm not for a second saying ATD would have been a certainty to beat SYT but Ballydoyle for obvious reasons do seem reluctant (bar the Arc which can be a bit of a lottery) to race their better ones against SYT and only tend to run pacemakers against him. The horse is also unlikely to be as far off the pace this time too as he had no winning form over the Arc trip and was badly drawn in a big field and none of that will apply here.

I'll probably just watch the race but one I'll be keeping an eye on is Green Destiny as that one looks an improver but still has to prove up to the step up in class.

Has a massive chance but at the odds il b backin Nathanial to win for about 50 and 200 on it for a place as taking a line of form through Workforce Nathanial don't have much to find to beat so you think and for me they should be alot closer in the betting and had a harder race than it looked in the arc in the last 4 furlongs and Nathanial has been kept back for this so for me Nathanial cert for a place and a good shout of beating so you think even Midday on the formline with snow fairy has a massive chance of getting close to it and wen iv went through it all I might even lay it

Wasn't Nathaniel tugged from the Arc due to the quick going?

With plenty of sun due before 4.10pm Saturday, not sure you want to be in the Nathaniel camp over an unknown distance for him.

I am almost convinced to have my biggest bet on So You Think - I think we could see a real champion crowned.

I wouldn't be too worried about the ground for Nathaniel as he won his maiden on good to firm and was a head 2nd in the Chester Vase to Treasure Beach on good to firm and I'd be more worried about the trip than the ground really.

And also beat a neck from Frankle if wot I read in the paper is true as a 2 year old but from wot I read on RP site they have been putting on plenty water to keep it nice racing ground but I just think from form and value Nathanial is the best value bet in the feild

He will love the shorter break between races you flaming possum dick, is the offical aussie view.

The ozzies no nowt they bum up every oz team on the go and every horse that wins 3 or more races on the trot for me the step down in trip is more a worry for SYT they keep telling us it's best win in oz was over 2m??? And appeared to need every yard of the 12 to beat Workforce and Snow Fairy and for me Nathanial looks like it might have a better turn of foot than SYT but this is why we luv to bet put our money where our mouth is plus this years 3 year olds look like some of the best for a good few seasons

don't believe all you read, BB... Frankel DID beat Nathaniel a neck in the maiden... difference is TQ never touched the whip and the horse was cruising whereas Nathaniel was one paced and stayed on like a middle distance horse... bare paper form means feck all - the eyes tell more...

Wldn't put you off backing Nathaniel for a PLACE but will be surprised if it wins...

It depends on the ground and how they're ridden but SYT has a v decent cruising speed but I've seen no turbo so something that can sit on his withers and then shoot clear will win... who that is is another matter...

Midday? Twice Over? Snow Fairy?

Like i said in my 1st post 50 win but 200 for a place as 99% sure he gets placed and if he is 4th then I look a right wolly but of the other 3 il take midday all day I know wen she trashed Snow at goodwood frankie said snow will come on for the run and by the look of it that's true and had great form this time last year but can't help lookin back at that race and feel impressed by the way midday boosted away from snow plus I had £200 on midday that day :-) and also I might b wrong and it will include alot of fillys races but don't think she has been out the 1st 2 in her life and especially a few of them to Sariska

Not sure you have got all of that right really blackballed1 (well I am really but being diplomatic) as So You Think has never won at 2 miles, unless what you mean is the Aussies were saying the 2 mile Melbourne Cup was his best performance?

When you say SYT needed every yard of the 12 to beat Workforce and Snow Fairy do you mean 12 furlongs and the races being the Eclipse and Irish Champion? If so I'm not wanting to seem like I'm picking you up on everything but those were at 10 furlongs and whilst I agree SYT struggled and needed them all to get up to beat WF, the line couldn't come quick enough for him against SF.

Sorry once again too but I don't really feel this season's 3YOs are that great either, Frankel and Danedream's Arc run being the exceptions.....but like you day, it's all about opinions and you are certainly entitled to yours.

Must say sorry if info was wrong on the Ozzie performance but it must have been the mel cup they were talking about but if i am wrong so be it won't b the 1st or last i can take the slaggings tho to be fair u kept it diplomatic unlike most others on here who seem to think they are correct all the time thank god the jumps season is starting as I know more about that than the flat I could yet change my mind as I did the other week wen I was goin to back Sarafina for a place 1st 4 but my main bet on sat will be £300 on Frankie boy and also the same race Exelebration for a place can't see past that combo

I would worry about it being so soon after the arc , coolmore trying to vainly save face by running it again to prove its the best ever , breeders next imo

nathaniel has done nothing but improve , will be fresh and is a very good horse , this is twice overs race and will make the frame for sure , going to be a cracking race for sure

Is it not as simple as thinking pretty much everything that could go wrong did go wrong in the Prince of Wales for So You Think (undercooked in prep, keen during the race, bumped by stablemate who was burnt out too early leaving So You Think to do the donkey work a long way from home resulting in his only defeat over 10 furlongs by what could have been a top quality 4 year old colt) so at 9/4 looks a good bet given he's only really had 4 races this season along with two racecourse gallops?

No problem blackballed1 and I try to not be stroppy on here unless someone is to me first.

On another note mentioned later I'm not sure I can go along with the undercooked excuse for SYT at Royal Ascot considering it was the horse's third run of the season and coming only three weeks after its second....and add to that the home work it must have been doing in all that time too.

It's funny too that people are making excuses for SYT in that race by saying he went too soon when it was inside the 3 furlong pole but then Frankel gets criticised for being all out and just holding on when going to the front at the 3f pole and having to chase his pacemaker from 5f out on the same course. SYT's times at Ascot, Sandown and Leopardstown were all around the 2m 4s mark but because he wins two and gets beaten in one the runs are looked at differently.

ima_mazed...It's funny too that people are making excuses for SYT in that race by saying he went too soon when it was inside the 3 furlong pole but then Frankel gets criticised for being all out and just holding on when going to the front at the 3f pole and having to chase his pacemaker from 5f out on the same course.


myself being a big fan of Frankel and SYT...i think you should go check both races, very identicle, both chased after their pace maker before the final turn with SYT hitting the front about 5 srides before Frankel did in his race and it was the same with both jockeys pulling the whip, SYT's jockey started about 5 strides earlier than Frankel's jockey and the end result both SYT and Frankel weaken and practically walked over the line... both jockey error and where does 5 furlongs come into it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTXNBOyA2rM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLmu_pHF0sA

On the driftety drift..

5 furlong comes into it as that is the point at which Frankel starts to chase his pacemaker and it's a deliberate visual move where he goes from 4th to 2nd and Queally's arms are pushing where he's asking the horse to make up the ground, although he doesn't actually hit the front until about the 3f pole. The pacemaker couldn't get to the front in the 2000 Guineas and then goes off far to fast in the St James's and Queally must have been fearful that he couldn't wait too long to try to make up the ground.

In the Prince of Wales race SYT's pacemaker took some time to get to the front and Godolphin also had a pacemaker so SYT was able to sit easy in 3rd for most of the race. Frankel has to for want of a better expression "cut" down his pacemaker whereas SYT was able to "reel" his in. Frankel effectively started to be ridden for his finish from 5f out, so no wonder he started to tie up towards the end.

You've put up the link for the video to Frankel's race so maybe take your own advice and watch it again and note how soon Queally asks Frankel to go from 4th to 2nd and chase down his pacemaker.

hooray!

17 days? 14 days is a deadset formality in australia, I repeat, a deadset FORMALITY

about time they give this horse a chance to get fit, haven't even looked at the race but if he's ridden forward you'll see a good performance

that is all

when is it?

so you stink fails again nathanial as already posted, at the price is great value.

Erm, how can I break this to you gentle educeee but SYT doesn't racing in Australia any more? So what might apply there doesn't always apply everywhere else. Although your point isn't even that valid anyway and I've already made this point to your compatriot megsy but it's easy enough to copy and paste it again so:

The gaps between SYT's races in Australia were:

108 days, 14 days, 22 days, 14 days, 14 days, 294 days, 21 days, 21 days, 14 days, 7 days and 3 days with those final runs being the 3 in 10 days spell. So ignoring those and the 2 prolonged absences, he usually races anything between 14 days and 22 days apart.

SYT's gaps between runs in Ire/UK:

20 days, 24 days, 17 days, 63 days. So ignoring what I assume was a mid-season break of 63 days after having 4 races in 8 weeks at an average of a run every 2 weeks, since going to Ireland he has usually raced with anything between 17 and 24 days between races.

So 14-22 days in Australia and 17-24 days in Ire/UK.....not really much of a difference is it?

I doubt he will be held up either as he has winning form at the trip so doesn't have to be ridden to get it, it's a smaller field and he's not as badly drawn as he was in the Arc and the draw is probably insignificant anyway.

ima mazed....you amaze me, seriously, you have no idea the bullshyt you type.....if you have had anything to do with a horse, 63 days isnt a spell, the horse was being educated to settle more in a race due to the plan of running in the ARC. ...the 294 day spell was because he had a wind operation.


and you forgot to add 30 days after the 63 days which was the Arc run.

the horse Frankel whom i admire has only had 4 starts in 6 months and has been in training the whole time. reason being he takes time to recover like most european horses.

LOL....How can facts be bullshit megsy? I don't decide on the dates when STY runs, not over there or over here. Again you keep making the same arrogant mistake of thinking just because horses are trained one way in Australia that that's how they have to be trained everywhere, open your eyes mate there's a whole world out there to see and learn about.

Maybe you don't give horses a mid-season break over there and that's fine with your "spells" or whatever and that's not even an expression used here by the way, but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to tell you that you can't use it because we don't use it and that you have to do things our way because despite us both living on islands, I like to think that I'm a little more open minded than you and not so insular.

As regards the 294 days, I quite clearly both times on both of the replies specifically stated the same thing (that's what tends to happen when you copy and paste!) "So ignoring those and the 2 prolonged absences, he usually races anything between 14 days and 22 days apart." the 108 and 294 days were the "prolonged absences" I was on about.

Oh and I didn't actually forget to add the 30 days for the Arc, I mentioned it was a straight copy and paste from a previous answer to you and at that time the Arc had not even been run yet. Even so, the general range of gaps when SYT ran in Australia were generally between 14-22 days and so OK there was an extra week or so at the top end just before the Arc run, but it that likely to then turn the horse into an unfit lard bucket or something?

Oh and you say I talk bullshit? Shall I tell you why Frankel hasn't run more frequently than he has and why SYT hasn't for that matter too, it's because the racing calendar and dates of the meetings here are traditional and have been set at those times long before the likes of those two horses were even born. Horses here will often have their targets for the season basically mapped out before the season even starts and are then revised or they stick to the game plan depending on the outcome of each race, or were you wanting Ireland and the UK to rip up the racing fixture list and tweak the dates just to suit your ex-Australian very-good-but-not-quite-a-superstar-horse?......Or maybe they could run him in a claimer on the AW at Dundalk as and when, just to fill in time between his main set targets.

Talk about making a sweeping generalisation bullsh1t statement about European horses taking time to recover. We've had horses here win on consecutive days before or win or run twice at the same festival meeting within days enough times in the past. Do yours tend to mainly race in one area of the country there due to things like only certain geographical areas race or to avoid extreme travelling distances? If so do they tend to run as frequently as they have race days at those tracks then?

Here there is racing every day, 7 days a week and all over the nation at courses in England, Scotland and Wales and so there are plenty of targets and options but no top notch horse is going to run in the 2000 Guineas, Dante, Derby, Eclipse, King George, International, Leger, Champion and so on as that would be far too much and too often and that's only the UK ones and not including Irish and French classics and the Irish Champion and Arc for example and then there's the Breeders' Cup too to follow. So obviously trainers pick and choose their races and especially when some will be the target of other horses in their yard or horses from the same ownership in other yards so as to limit clashes......you might have noticed that O'Brien has kept most of his better ones away from SYT by the way.

Talking of the Breeders' Cup, don't you think it would be a little arrogant of any UK trainer to go over there for a race and tell them that their horses shouldn't be running on medication, that they are training them all wrong and that they should do it the way we do in the UK?

So anyway, I hope that helps you understand a little about racing from another country other than Australia but if there's anything else you would like to know then please feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer if I can or I'm sure one of my compatriots will be just as obliging.

go away ima_mug66, you've got an agenda against Australia, if you didn't you wouldn't care so much to dispute threads in the Australian forum

nothing you say has merit because of this

next mug please.

10f is SYT best trip but,when was the last time an ARC runner won this race ?.... 40 years ago ???

not a follower of british racing, but can i ask how often arc runners actually even back up for this? It's not as much of a stat if only 4-5 runners actually backed up in the last 40 years!

11/4 with powers who will go 3/1 first?

Sorry tj,Pride actually won this race in 2006 after finishing 2nd in the ARC,then you have to go back to Sir Ivor in 1968 to find a winning ARC runner.

I must add,i am a SYT fan after having some really good wins on him while touring Oz last year.A land where this is a betting shop in every pub.

Ah ok. I really think SYT or snow fairy will win this although I dunno if i'll bet.

When I first started to follow the euro stuff this year because of SYT I quickly developed a large misperception about Snow Fairy because of how she was rated (in general) by a lot of euro's. But i'm almost certain now that you guys are just very ignorant towards any racing outside of britain and france. Her hong kong cup win was top class, came from the back of the field to beat a very solid group of horses.

Whether she can back up 2 weeks later or not I dunno, obviously the same question goes for SYT, but he has some history to suggest he can. Although i'm not for a second saying backing up in aussie is the same as here.

As for nathaniel, is no one worried that he needs (supposedly) some cut and also probably prefers 10f?

And i don't think midday/twice over are good enough, I just think snow fairy has come on so so much since losing to Midday.

Prefers 12f I mean (re nathaniel)

why is Snow Fairy racing here if 12f is the preferred distance? surely there's a 12f race somewhere..

I just don't want people to be saying "it wasn't her preferred distance" when SYT edges out Snow Fairy

Is that at me? If so I said/asked nathaniel prefers 12F, not snow fairy.

Is that at me? If so I said/asked nathaniel prefers 12F, not snow fairy.

Is that at me? If so I said/asked nathaniel prefers 12F, not snow fairy.

Definetly didn't mean to post 3 times

no just a general question

dug...its been a practise for over 20 years having betting shops in pubs its become the norm now. nothing better than a ale,a bet and a big screen tv and collect within minutes. just got to be careful you dont over do the ales, haha.

Iv had a small 20 on SYT but only because if u bet through laddys mobile they will give u double odds so there making it 5/1 so have a we dabble at that price max bet 25 and only thro ur mobile but still b on Nathanial for place good luck all

fingers crossed ryan moore doesnt slaughter the horse again.

educeee 15 Oct 11 06:16 
go away ima_mug66, you've got an agenda against Australia, if you didn't you wouldn't care so much to dispute threads in the Australian forum

nothing you say has merit because of this

next mug please.

LOL....the hypocrisy from you Aussies is astounding.....remind me again which forum you have just posted the above in?

Oh and in case you say Horse Racing as if it's an international one, I'd just point out that that was the UK and Irish horse racing forum before Betfair was even in Australia and there's also a separate U.S. Horse Racing forum and an Australian one too!

Oh and by the way, look at the date of my first post in the Aussie forum and then my last and you will see that they range from just after the Arc and for a few days later and the only reason I had to go there was that all of you mouthy Aussies kept a low profile in here after your supposed wonder horse got his @rse spanked in the Arc, as none of you were humble enough to hold your hands up in this Horse Racing forum and admit you got it wrong. Then when you did finally slope back in again it was the usual one excuse after another.....by the way, did Fame And Glory just go too early in the stayers race?

And yeah I do have an agenda, to slap down arrogant big mouths when they are wrong because by all means be a big mouth but then you had better make sure you are right. I would have been more than happy to give So You think credit if he had won the Arc as I think he's a very good horse and have said so enough times, he's just not as good on the world stage as some (key word there) of you insular Aussies first thought so.....and of course you will pathetically claim nothing I say has any merit (even though all of it does) but then again that's because it doesn't suit your argument does it?