BANNOCK

what do we think? i know it had bad draw last day, but it still ran a shocker

criminals as we all know

i had backed boggart last week and knew bannock would win today only bet of the day £350 at 9/4 yehhh

[;)]

Had to laugh at De Sousa when he said something along the lines of Johnston's improving for each run. Really?

That other myth about the stable's horses always running to line was also compounded by Colour Vision weakening away any chance of winning the Cesarewitch.

Was at Redcar last week and everyone on the track knew the horse had missed some work,its form was far superior to anything in the race today

Sandy is correct imo!

Strange that despite everyone on the track knowing that it still went off 2/1 fav. Even stranger that a group of that size would have any faith in what flowed from the mouth of Mark The Slayer.

It went off fav cos people dont do their homework,also dont know why you people keep knocking one of the best trainers in the country,as the number of winners he sends out year after year for proof

Punters like consistency. In that respect he's one of the worst trainers in the country, the number of tailed off horses he sends out year after year being proof.

"Was at Redcar last week and everyone on the track knew the horse had missed some work,its form was far superior to anything in the race today"

A BF SP of 3.02 at Redcar in a £100,000 to the winner race would suggest that not too many "knew" the outcome (which is par for the Course with most runners from this Yard.
Poorly drawn and never going.

Rate reply:

Not to mention the two hundred winners,you cant please some people,you carry on betting on stables producing 10/15 winners a year,I know which stable I would sooner follow

Sandy,
The market on here regarding the supposed expectation from Johnston runners is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike (especially with their newcomers).

I will refer you back to what I said about homework,I for one dont back his newcomers

Sandy,
What "homework" would have given you a clue to today's performance (other than race course gossip)?

Are you for real? the form of the horse was far superior to anything else in the race,it had run in a lot of the top two year old races,thhe one bad performance was Redcar and as stated it had missed work before that race [confirmed in Racing Post]

Horse last week 100%,beaten by draw,no more no less,Deirdre told molerat not to back it last week.hth[;)]

I am not arguing about today's run,what I am stating,quite clearly,is that few knew the horse was "no good" at Redcar,clown.

Yeah ok ,if thats what you want to believe,as soon as I arrived on track last week was told by at least three very reliable sourses to avoid the horse as it had missed work that week,which I did,but backed it today on the strength of its overall form,and knowing that last week would have brought him on

Was Deirdre one of them?

Yeah but im one of the "clowns" that knew it wasnt off,word spred like wildfire at redcar and there was a lot more than a "few" knew about it

Sandy,
I deal in reality not race course rumour which can only put you in the poor house.
The horse went off at 3.02 at Redcar compared to Industry SP of 3.0.
Nobody "knew" it was no good.If they did it would have gone off far bigger.
Nothing to do  with today.
Well done with your winner.

Btw only negative for last week was a killer draw.nap

Yeah but dont forget the machine runs racing,It was more than likeley backed by people not even at the track

Sandy,
So,let us be clear here.
You are claiming to "know" it was "not off" (this in a £100,000 race).
After taking a Kings Ransom out,remarkably, the horse did not drift.
Do not waste my time any furthet you utter bullshatter.

So guess you aint backed it today,just look at your racing post idiot,iells you in there the horse had missed work,suppose you will say they didnt know either

Imhotep,someone earlier was saying only MJs horses were handling the York going this season.Never had a winner there until today,then comes on and boasts he had 3.

like a few have said the draw look at chester in a sprint if ur draw over 6 u can almost forget it and also the arc last week go on youtube and listen to the ATR interveiw with Frankie last monday he said if ur drawn in double figures u can pretty much forget it

Sandy,would you believe the RP or Deirdre?

So your saying Deidre said it hadnt missed work?

Missing a piece of work does not and never will eqaute to a horse being "not off".
"Not expected" is entirely another matter.
I did not back it today or at Redcar.

Not picking on anyone but here is another example of being misled.Last night someone tipped a horse as follows,should use its class and fitness to win,or words to that effect.

The nag in question hadnt run for 3 months and had lost its "class" because it had its knackers removed.Told the offender pre-race,no reply,beaten sensless.[smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][;)]

so thats why johnstons always have form figures 10PU1,- they MISSED a piece of work

Yeah he must be a miracle worker to get em to win 200 races a year, wonder how many races he would win if yhey had better form figures

Colour Vision's form perfectly illustrates the perils of backing horses from this Yard.

Why so obsessed with MJs horses?

Results speak for themselves,he doesnt get them handicapped for a touch,has a run above their grade just in case.

A lot to learn,some.

"he doesnt get them handicapped for a touch"- only 50% of that statement is true, if even? cos he does handicap them

and why didnt anyone answer my question when it was asked, that would have been more helpful than all this aftertiming, one thinks

Redcar similar to tracks like chepstow where form just doesn't stand up,certain horses just don't go on those tracks and infact i never use formlines from either of those particular tracks.It's also borne out by the results whereby horses win all over the track and no consistency on stand side or farside to be able to bet with any confidence.

you re all wrong the horse is better with 21 days or less between races,it had been off the track 60 days before redcar ,so that run was to get it fit - then it wins 7 days later as it as done before,theres nearly always a solid form stat to back up any good/bad display.

Taipan,you didnt ask a question,you made a statement.How can you be helped if you dont read?

Has Molerat ever sold a duffer?

More pies than fingers,more lines than BT.nap[;)]

Gigolo,we are all wrong.[smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy]

Try using redcar formlines to other tracks and see where it gets you,specialist track or sh1thole i would prefer,you've only got to see the proximity of some of the runners behind bogart to see winner apart was false form.

i meant to put a ? mark at the end ot the post, sorry![;)]

as for everything else, i'm

Taipan,start saving some,molerat has a touch coming.[;)]

In the meantime,look for the gigolo sniffing around Nurseries.[:o][:o][:)][;)]

hopefully i have a few quid coming off phil taylor tomorrow, unless he throws the match for the IRISH crowd and their man in "THE ZONE". i'm stubborn and wont get out at 1.07!

Mentioning johnston and nurseries on same posts,coincidentally he has one called cravat won at chester in a decent time which will take all the beating next time out,although maybe short.

Going back to Bannock - Redcar wasn't the only poor performance. Started 9/2 at Royal Ascot and was amongst the first beaten - doubtless there would have been plenty of win/each-way money which quickly went down the pan.

Fox Hunt is just about the only horse in the yard who has maintained some level of consistency. Even with him he looked as if he didn't get home when finishing behind Tactician but then on the same track appeared to stay on when the race was over (again just failing to justify any each-way bets) in the Ebor.

Colour Vision is a perfect example to give for this rancid stable, note the almost unbelieable drop off in form after a victory or placing,


08Oct11       Nmk 18Gd C2Hc 99K     9-1     3/33 (2L Never Can Tell 8-11) 20/1     Neil Callan     105     *     *
Video     03Oct11       Pon 18GF C3 6K     8-5     1/5 (2¾L Fire Fighter 8-5) 11/8     Silvestre De Sousa     98     *     *
Video     10Sep11       Chs 12Gd C1L 17K     8-6     5/6 (14L Debussy 9-1) 7/1     Franny Norton     100     *     *
Video     01Sep11       Sal 14Gd C2 9K     8-5     8/9 (36L Highland Castle 8-7) 7/2     Franny Norton     101     *     *
No Video     15Aug11       Dea 15GS 3yL 23K     8-11     4/7 (5½L Gaily Game 8-11) 7/2     Gerald Mosse     —     *     *
Video     22Jul11       Asc 16Sft C2Hc 14K     8-9     2/9 (¾L Keys 9-1) 11/4     Silvestre De Sousa     95     *     *
Video     15Jul11       Hay 14GF C43yHc 5K     9-13     1/5 (10L Dark Dune 8-11) 13/8F     Silvestre De Sousa     88     *     *
Video     09Jul11       Chs 16Gd C4Hc 5K     8-7     1/9 (4½L Never Can Tell 10-0) 11/2     Sam Hitchcott     82     *     *
Video     22Jun11       Sal 12Sft C33yHc 7K     9-1     7/11 (14L Whiplash Willie 8-10) 16/1     Kieren Fallon     84     *     *
Video     04Jun11       Mus 12GF C23yHc 49K     8-4     9/9 (11L Eternal Heart 8-5) 7/1     Andrew Elliott     86     *     *
Video     04May11       Chs 12GF C33yHc 9K     9-3     3/8 (¾L Brown Panther 8-9) 14/1     Joe Fanning     81     *     *
Video     02Oct10       Eps 9Hy C42yHc 6K     9-3     8/8 (64L Time To Work 9-2) 12/1     Darryll Holland     81     *     *
Video     11Sep10       Don 8Gd C22yHc 8K     9-2     12/12 (74L Buthelezi 9-7) 13/2     Joe Fanning     83     *     *
Video     27Aug10       Thi 8GF C42yMd 4K     9-3     1/11 (½L Ru'Oud 9-3) 18/1     Joe Fanning     —     *     *
Video     13Aug10       Nmk 8Sft C42yMd 4K     9-3     11/12 (29L Frankel 9-3) 25/1     Adrian Nicholls

johnson runs them correct all the time,its punters who cant understand the form ,that leads to you believing this,basically 1m5f+and the horse runs the same race,its when he drops below this that it dosent run well,he runs it at less because hes targetting a certain race i.e csar,so he steps up the distance as the race aproaches ,then drops back down re training for its next target.

Joy De Vive, 5-4 fav, never picks its feet up, next race, 10-1, home it goes, very dubious to say the least

jeu de vive ,won soft 13f ,2nd g/f 14f ,different going and the furthest it had run ever,just because its fav or punters think it should win doesnt make it so.

Did anyone notice that Bannock actually won his maiden at Redcar, it would suggest he acts on the track pretty well eh?

Never going at any stage, must have missed some work

ye, i actually remember the betting around some of those races, very suspicious betting activity

I'd guess the reason behind a lot of MJ's horses running like they were ill is they DON'T miss work, EVER. Maybe if he gave them the odd rest ...

no, he just fills them up with hay when he wants them to run poorly- inside info from MIRISOO

Some truth on here but a lot of the posts are miles off! Those assuming this, that and the other are usually those who can never "guess" right with the yard and constantly moans about them. Easy answer to those people is leave the yard's runners alone then!

So colour vision wins his maiden and his next two runs were stone last, beaten national hunt distance's?

His 3yo career started with a narrow defeat by none other than group class brown panther, guess what brown panther won a group 2, colour vision was tailed off?

right.

it was last because
1)it went from g/f to heavy
2)it didnt handle epsom/tattenham corner

Colour Vision, a 100,000gns yearling, lost his race at the start at Doncaster last time and did not handle Tattenham Corner at all here. He was reported to have lost his action and is better than his last two starts suggest.

comingupthehill

Dont forget the step up in trips which helped no end with CV and tbh this thread could run forever if everytime one of the yards get beat then pops up another time it arouses suspicion! This can apply to nearly all horses in training but because its the one stable 99% of punters cant get right they have to have a moan.

hes very easy to follow - and you cant win every race,so he alters a horses race type/dist to help with getting the horse fit and capable of winning,

Well explain a narrow defeat to a group 2 performer, usually a stepping stone to something bigger? with Johnstons its the cue to be tailed off?

if you look at its form - its won 4 times all left handed - it ran at mussleboro after brown panther ,its right handed,

comingupthehill you really are grasping at straws stroke excuses, this stable is one of the most untrustworthy and how they can advertise "always trying" as their motto really rubs it in,

how can you say they re unt5rusworthy,have you got specific knowledge or is it based on your poor assessment of the form.

you know what the biggest coincidence would be,if their were no coincedences.so there are perfectly good reasons as to why is horse doesnt win every race.

Too many examples of horses running well to all of a sudden running like a 3 legged ass trying to scale Everest in their next run? you explain that to me comingupthathill?

as i said the biggest coincedence would be if their were no coincedernces,if you feel like that dont bet his horses,till you ve figured out the form.

Look! horses simply do not lose form like johnsons do its almost impossible to run well and be tailed off national hunt like next time? yet Johnsons always do??????

How the authorities have not looked into the conduct of this trainer I do not know?

Oh sorry isn't he on the board?

Yeah there needs to be an urgent enquiry hes bang out of order training 200 winners a year

Does that explain the tailed off runs? he might train 300 hundred if he wiped out the hundreds of inexplicable runs?

perhaps he trains 200 winners a YEAR because he dosent try to get 300.

Think he will be satisfied with 200, after all there aint many that can do it

Ah the head in the sand answer, always an explanation as we know horses can't talk..

you ve got some tanasitity greaser,cant you broaden your distrust,its a long time spent on such a narrow topic

I distrust every trainer, bookies are only a minor irritant, trainers are and always will be the punters biggest nightmare.
Always amazes me the amount of threads slating bookmakers yet its the trainer who decides whether you live or die?

The head in the sand if thats what you want to call it,but I find it astounding how people can come on here knocking a stable thats virtually guaranteed to provide 200 winners a year. Alright theres gonna be plenty of losers but how many stables will produce 200 wins.It is staggering to think how much profit some people are making with attitudes like this

horses will lose its only natural, the gripe with this thread is the amount of johnson horses that run run well and all of a sudden they become snail like so much so they become so tailed off even space satellites would have a job tracking them down.

Will someone explain that to me?

Silver has hit the nail on the head

You can sometimes spot a Johnston 'sicky' a couple of furlongs into a race. I've always advocated that the handicapping system should reward consistency and penalise inconsistency rather than the other way round. If the BHA agreed MJ's career would be over and I suspect a lot of horses would be spared lives of abject misery.

thegiggilo
09 Oct 11 01:21   











Mentioning johnston and nurseries on same posts,coincidentally he has one called cravat won at chester in a decent time which will take all the beating next time out,although maybe short.


Another little gem,hope you both got on!![;)]

Nice one.

i remembered alright, had a few sneaky ones on, although it wasnt a nursery[;)]

1.6 seconds quicker than the original fav the day before at chester on the same going,the time of its run was quicker than the older handicappers at chester on the same day as well.On that run looked up to listed class,plus the others in the race apart from amazing storm had all done nothing on the clock.I backed the pair at 9/2 and 6s as insurance,they both ended up having in price.

yes, very nice its something i never look at(race times). i just go by visual impressions, maybe i should change it up a bit

If you've got 12 hours to spare everyday thats the catch unfortunately.

i hope it pays handsomely![;)] i know i couldnt do it, i would start looking at races to deeply

Took eight years to win enough i can now never bet again,baby due soon so i don't know how many hours aday i'll be able to do due any day.May be able to do the aw as the cards take less time,but i won't be doing 12-18 hour days again for a while.

No more giggilo then gig?[;)]

congratulations[;)]

I don't know whether to or at this moment in time to old for this baby malarkey.[smiley:crazy]

Explains why you understand nurseries though.[;)]

you're making me broody!! but i'm so ugly a brazzer wouldnt sleep with me, they just take my money

betfair's the same, but at least they fook me first

I've been doing the cards since 5pm and havn't got a pick yet and thats not unusual either,so nothing stands out i have to be up by 7.30 to see if there's any ricks.If you're ever midlands way and want to meet at dunstall i'll be there,don't get out much nowadays.

thats cool, a thorough guy, i like that....must take you up on you're offer sometime, wont be easy though, i live in ireland

Wolves,notts,liecester and warwick i don't go to the bigger meetings they don't really interest me but wolves is mainly my territory and maybe a late all night club after.[;)]

it sounds like i'd be parting with p. veitch with the amount of work you put in! i'm sure i wouldnt go home without pocketfuls of cash[;)]