Will The Whip Use Changes Make Some Horses Redundant

Deanos Beano

I recall those rides too. There are a number of others that spring to mind too.

I can see a lot of punters becoming redundant.

I had this conversation a few days ago with someone. we both agreed that their will be quite a number of horses that owners will now want to get rid of. I also think that its going to result in a lot of 2 year olds not getting trained on if they dont behave. the bigger worry for me is that jocks are now going to have the perfect excuse when riding none triers. basically the pc brigade have put a the final nail in the coffin. we may as well just have donkeys running down the beach with no jocks on cos thats how it will prob end up.

correct, robin ...

A Cheats Charter - The'Airshot boys' won't even need to play that pretence card, now.

as has been pointed out by a few, far too many jocks go for the whip too quickly after travelling well, rather than using other riding aids to encourage the horse for more effort.

Hopefully more jocks will now attempt to ride like Richard Hughes than Chris Catlin et al

More horses will have there ribs kicked to bits and the ungenuine ones still wont run properly.Breeders will suffer and I can see lots of secret culling on the cards.Surely there will be changes to the NH rules.

"More horses will have there ribs kicked to bits"

Apart from Andrew Thornton, who else rides long enough to kick a horse in the ribs, please?

Whats your take on this Loper, it will affect NH more than flat imo, more PU ??

can u throw the whip away and keep hitting them with your hand ?

agree loper. You obviously never sat on a horse if you think you can actually "kick a horse in the ribs"
The only people I ever seen do that were standing on the ground.

Didnt Alvin Stardust have studded Gloves Koo?? (ga choo)


Give him a buzz and see if he still has em

Loper & Pedrobob many NH boys ride long enough and use their legs in a finish,I remember Paul Townend on What A Charm at Cheltenham.Giving the horse a kick in the belly has been common terminology for years.

I think you might be able to "squeeze" a horse with your legs, but don't think you can physically kick one.
When you see NH jocks moving their legs back and forth, don't think they are actually making any meaningful physical contact with the horse, certainly not kicking it.
The terminology is misleading imo

Morning Zilzal.

I have to confess that I haven't seen the new rules in detail so can't comment.

I think that hands and heels races have been part of a young jockey's education for some time now and I haven't noticed them reduced to farce.

I assume the rider can still (unlike in hands & heels races) wave the whip in a threatening manner in order to motivate his mount.

As mentioned earlier, Richard Hughes seems able to get the best out of his beasts without resorting to excessive use of the whip.

3m+ races in heavy ground may be an interesting spectacle this winter, and may lead to jockeys developing complementary skills of motivation, but at least they should be less unedifying.

I will be taking a watching brief for a couple of weeks to see how it goes on the jumps.Richard Hughes said on Get On on Monday that there will be NH races with a couple of finishers and he doesn't know how it will work.

Speaking of Chases in HEAVY ground

There is a strong  possibility  that there would have  been NO finishers, at all, in last year's Eider Chase.

I think Jumping will come into the fray even more with these rules, ive just watched a few races from the festival and virtually all the horses that were in the 1st 3 have been whipped more after the last.

Did i hear that Claisse is moving the last even closer to the line??? Not a lot of time to recover if this is the case, i think i'll be looking to the type that can travel through a race

Onlooker, there is a possibility that the rule may have a knock on affect of heavy ground being more unraceable than in the past, didnt enjoy the Eider at all. more meetings abandoned could be an unintended consequence

Agreed zilzal1 strong travelling leapers seem likely best suited to these rules.

"As mentioned earlier, Richard Hughes seems able to get the best out of his beasts without resorting to excessive use of the whip"

Are you joking? worst jockey riding. he never gets the best out of any mount.

I believe there will be many other unintended consequences including the beginning of the end for racing in the UK. Considering its lofty position once upon a time this is sad. Its a pity that this is being done to satisfy a few people who watch racing once a year.

ask harry bentley or seb sanders amongst others in last few days.
Both were riding better horses than Hughes, yet both got beat a sh hd

i think they should warn off the dodgy sorts,what will new punters think when they see these dodgers not goint through with effort,it is bad enough with the whip but at least we can identify some of the many suspect sorts.

There will be Jocks that could get shown up in a finish over jumps over long distances,it could lead to some jocks retiring who ride moderate horses who are as lazy as feck.

The cheating will be immense,the will to win maybe taken away from small stables.

I think that the BHA will sit down with jockeys, stewards and starters and discuss the pace issue on heavy ground. Thanks to the trend setting of Michael Dickinson and Martin Pipe NH racing is run at a far faster pace these days than it used to.

On the day, depending on the ground, the starter and senior steward will go into the weighing room before races and tell the jockeys that they must not set too suicidal a pace.

Whether this will make a blind bit of difference, God only knows!

maybe a lot of the jumps boys will try and learn how to present horses better at fences for the rest of the race, rather than just whipping it on the flat at the end.... or judge pace more evenly so they can last out the race properly without again resorting to the stick at the end?

Exactly, Pedrobob.

loper what do the BHA,the starter and senior steward know about the pace of horse races especially compared to jockeys and trainers.Come on mate where's the logic and integrity.BHA deciding how horse races are run get a grip.

I remember when Timmy Murphy was stable jockey to Paul Nicholls, he was very hard with the whip then and kept getting banned for it. I used to call him the Enforcer.

He certainly moderated his style!

All starters are ex jockeys, Fatlad 1981. And what are racecourse stewards employed for, exactly?

In my opinion they might as well fook the stewards off now,save a few quid in racing wages,the souless idol fookers dont want to work,no more jockey excuses for over use of the whip? if a horse hangs or is pulled out the jockeys got the excuse they could not use whip,what the fook the stewards gonna do? The game is gone.

Mmmm there are several Jocks who i wouldnt be wanting to back on a front runner over both codes, although he gets some stick id like Eddie on the flat from the front

loper Stewards are there to make sure races are ran within the rules of racing and to make sure jockeys adhere to the rules.Starters are there to make sure the starts are fair and within the rules.Neither have jurisdiction on how races are run.

loper     06 Oct 11 11:46 

On the day, depending on the ground, the starter and senior steward will go into the weighing room before races and tell the jockeys that they must not set too suicidal a pace.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Are we opening a book on who will be the first jockey to think ...

Right, I'll just nick 30 or more yards at the start, then.

Fatlad 1981,

the starter and the stewards have been going in to the weighing room pre race and giving the jockeys advice/warnings since time immemorial. So I'm sure they wont stop now.

What effect it has ever had, phuuck knows!

really I didn't know that

the above comment is a serious one by the way

In my view I think the changes will have minimal effect on the flat (the territory that I am involved in for betting purposes) - the odd rogue does get a belting eg Imperial Fong last Thursday at Warwick but few winners get hit more than 7/8 times - the jumps may be a different matter ...

I agree. crepello -

In fact, I am looking forward to, hopefully,  getting back to the days when jockeys rode sensibly to 'the distance' and then challenged from thereon - Just watch videos from 20 - 40 years ago - like the Brigadier Gerard/Mill Reef 2000 Guineas.

- and the FORM was far more reliable from those type of races, too.

Instead of the current cowboys 'riding a finish' before they have even turned into the straight on MANY courses.

However, Jumpers are more wayward, and problems will ensue.

robinlace1     06 Oct 11 11:31 
"As mentioned earlier, Richard Hughes seems able to get the best out of his beasts without resorting to excessive use of the whip"

Are you joking? worst jockey riding. he never gets the best out of any mount.



Even by your standards that is a monumentally stupid and inaccurate comment.