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03 Oct 11
22:44
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05 Jan 10
Posted By: Scott Ferguson http://onlinebetting.thetote.com.au/ 03-Oct-2011
Scott Ferguson discusses the Coolmore trainer Aidan O’Brien and his mis-management of champion Australian horse So You Think
There’s no denying that champion Irish trainer Aidan O’Brien is good at his trade, you only have to look at his record to recognise that. But then again, if you were looking after a never-ending production line of bluebloods bought or bred by some of the wealthiest men in Europe, wouldn’t you fancy yourself to win a few decent races?
This is a guy who never has to worry about grinding out winners in the bottom tier of racing, just to put food on the table or hang onto some owners. He never has to fight against owners who want to move to a bigger stable promising fame and fortune, or don’t agree with his methods. Just imagine how long O’Brien would last if he was trainer for Nathan Tinkler and Patinack Farm?
He has a bottomless pit of resources, and it matters little if one of his promising horses doesn’t quite measure up – they’ll just be lined as pacemaking fodder for the next potential superstar in the stable. It’s all about producing stallions for them – a friend of mine bought a close relation to one of their stallion prospects last year at auction, with the intention to go jumping with it and win a race at Cheltenham. Any mention of jumping on the family tree is deemed to slash millions from potential earnings in a stud career. The Coolmore production line couldn’t allow that to happen and made the syndicate an offer they couldn’t refuse, within hours of the auction.
O’Brien has waxed lyrical about So You Think throughout the year, possibly the best he’s ever had, nothing can keep up with him at home, what a beast of a horse etc.. But for two poor sets of tactics, he should probably be undefeated in Europe. In the Prince of Wales at Royal Ascot, he was slaughtered by Ryan Moore by a stupid pacemaker which went way too far in front, causing Moore to fire the champ up way too early in pursuit and get nabbed on the line by the ill-fated Rewilding.
I travelled over to Paris for the world’s finest race, the Prix de L’Arc de Triomphe, with an Aussie flag in my backpack ready to fly it proudly when he streeted clear in the final 200m. Hell, the nude run up the straight wearing the flag as a cape was not a million to one if the dream came true. With any decent luck, I had him coming out on top after crossing to take a sit near the pace – the way he always races!
The 14 draw wasn’t a concern, there wasn’t that much pace up front, and stablemate Treasure Beach crossed from 12 to take exactly that spot I’d identified on the speedmap. It wasn’t until about halfway that I realised our boy was out the back, it’s not easy working it out from the French caller going at a furious pace. And from that point, he had no hope of winning, despite a very gallant effort in the straight to pass most of the field.
One of my Twitter followers from Ireland told me (after the race) that O’Brien had said during the week that the son of High Chaparral would be ridden back in the field – unfortunately the first I’d heard of it and most others probably. Had he not looked at any of his Australian runs? Never once had SYT been ridden back – he’s always near the pace, suiting his style of gradually increasing the tempo and accelerating away, rather than flying home late. He’s not that kind of horse.
So after a career of running on the pace or leading, O’Brien makes the genius decision to completely change So You Think’s running style in the biggest race of his career, giving him Buckley’s chance of winning. This wasn’t a production line horse, this was our out-and-out superstar who races a particular way, no matter what the distance.
What a chump….
The winner Danedream was very impressive, exploding away from the field to win by five lengths at 20/1. However, with a 40/1 pacemaker running second, you are entitled to think this one of those freak results that happens once in a blue moon.
As for So You Think’s future, he’s high in the betting for QIPCO Champions Day at Ascot (Caulfield Cup Day) and the Breeders’ Cup in November. Whether he runs in either is something we’ll have to wait for the brains trust at Ballydoyle to decide. If not, a life of servicing some of the finest fillies in the business lies ahead. Not even Aidan O’Brien could stuff that part up surely…
Follow Scott on Twitter @Borisranting
Scott Ferguson discusses the Coolmore trainer Aidan O’Brien and his mis-management of champion Australian horse So You Think
There’s no denying that champion Irish trainer Aidan O’Brien is good at his trade, you only have to look at his record to recognise that. But then again, if you were looking after a never-ending production line of bluebloods bought or bred by some of the wealthiest men in Europe, wouldn’t you fancy yourself to win a few decent races?
This is a guy who never has to worry about grinding out winners in the bottom tier of racing, just to put food on the table or hang onto some owners. He never has to fight against owners who want to move to a bigger stable promising fame and fortune, or don’t agree with his methods. Just imagine how long O’Brien would last if he was trainer for Nathan Tinkler and Patinack Farm?
He has a bottomless pit of resources, and it matters little if one of his promising horses doesn’t quite measure up – they’ll just be lined as pacemaking fodder for the next potential superstar in the stable. It’s all about producing stallions for them – a friend of mine bought a close relation to one of their stallion prospects last year at auction, with the intention to go jumping with it and win a race at Cheltenham. Any mention of jumping on the family tree is deemed to slash millions from potential earnings in a stud career. The Coolmore production line couldn’t allow that to happen and made the syndicate an offer they couldn’t refuse, within hours of the auction.
O’Brien has waxed lyrical about So You Think throughout the year, possibly the best he’s ever had, nothing can keep up with him at home, what a beast of a horse etc.. But for two poor sets of tactics, he should probably be undefeated in Europe. In the Prince of Wales at Royal Ascot, he was slaughtered by Ryan Moore by a stupid pacemaker which went way too far in front, causing Moore to fire the champ up way too early in pursuit and get nabbed on the line by the ill-fated Rewilding.
I travelled over to Paris for the world’s finest race, the Prix de L’Arc de Triomphe, with an Aussie flag in my backpack ready to fly it proudly when he streeted clear in the final 200m. Hell, the nude run up the straight wearing the flag as a cape was not a million to one if the dream came true. With any decent luck, I had him coming out on top after crossing to take a sit near the pace – the way he always races!
The 14 draw wasn’t a concern, there wasn’t that much pace up front, and stablemate Treasure Beach crossed from 12 to take exactly that spot I’d identified on the speedmap. It wasn’t until about halfway that I realised our boy was out the back, it’s not easy working it out from the French caller going at a furious pace. And from that point, he had no hope of winning, despite a very gallant effort in the straight to pass most of the field.
One of my Twitter followers from Ireland told me (after the race) that O’Brien had said during the week that the son of High Chaparral would be ridden back in the field – unfortunately the first I’d heard of it and most others probably. Had he not looked at any of his Australian runs? Never once had SYT been ridden back – he’s always near the pace, suiting his style of gradually increasing the tempo and accelerating away, rather than flying home late. He’s not that kind of horse.
So after a career of running on the pace or leading, O’Brien makes the genius decision to completely change So You Think’s running style in the biggest race of his career, giving him Buckley’s chance of winning. This wasn’t a production line horse, this was our out-and-out superstar who races a particular way, no matter what the distance.
What a chump….
The winner Danedream was very impressive, exploding away from the field to win by five lengths at 20/1. However, with a 40/1 pacemaker running second, you are entitled to think this one of those freak results that happens once in a blue moon.
As for So You Think’s future, he’s high in the betting for QIPCO Champions Day at Ascot (Caulfield Cup Day) and the Breeders’ Cup in November. Whether he runs in either is something we’ll have to wait for the brains trust at Ballydoyle to decide. If not, a life of servicing some of the finest fillies in the business lies ahead. Not even Aidan O’Brien could stuff that part up surely…
Follow Scott on Twitter @Borisranting
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One thing his Aussie supporters were right about all along.
AOB screwed the horse BIG TIME in all his races in the UK.
Genius?
AOB screwed the horse BIG TIME in all his races in the UK.
Genius?
a friend of mine bought a close relation to one of their stallion prospects last year at auction, with the intention to go jumping with it and win a race at Cheltenham. Any mention of jumping on the family tree is deemed to slash millions from potential earnings in a stud career. The Coolmore production line couldn’t allow that to happen and made the syndicate an offer they couldn’t refuse, within hours of the auction
Aidan O'Brien is best racehorse trainer in the world. FACT.
When he wins about half the group races Sir Henry Cecil has i might start saying he's the 2nd best.
SYT,throw enough **** at a blanket and some will stick.
AOB has more **** than most and has less stick than the likes of HRA Cecil & co.FACT
AOB has more **** than most and has less stick than the likes of HRA Cecil & co.FACT
not that good imo they paid millions for it pure hype(coolmore hype? [;)])
When Sir Henry starts campaigning his horses with a little bit of ambition, the younger followers of horse racing might understand what made him so great in the first place. Until then, Aidan is superior and has won infinitely more than Sir Henry at 42.
RS.....That would be because Aidan never runs scared of taking on any opposition.
AOB is only superior in numbers,could not prune HRAs roses at 92, in terms of skill and knowledge of racehorses,he is aqhunt,ditto roses.nap
[;)]
FACT[;)]
[;)]FACT[;)]
Yeah Aidan definitely mismanaged So You Think's career......he started running it against horses better than Aussie handicap plodders.
So You Think has run a rating of at least 126 five times in 2011......International Thoroughbred Rankings.
Could only do that twice in Australia.
Is that mismanagement?
Could only do that twice in Australia.
Is that mismanagement?
So you think What are you on about please??? Midday all the big races in England, Ireland, France and USA and is 5 years old same as Twice Over who is 6 (both would have been retired 2 & 3 years ago if Coolmores) Frankel 6 G1 including beating Nathaniel, Zoffany, Canford Cliffs how else is he suppose to campaing them??? Send them to Cheltham in the spring?
everything is discussed with tabor, magnier and smith. aidan says he has 2/3 meetings with them a day where ideas are tossed around. they have every bit as much input as to horses targets, tactics etc. aidan gets them ready to run and theres no disputing he does a top notch job at it.
the guy that wrote this article talks as if he knows it all, but mentions nothing about the major decision makers, ie the 3 owners. the fact that he doesnt know that leads me to think hes clueless!
they cant get everything right needless to say, but the fact that theyre one of the largest and most successful bloodstock operations in the world indicates that they get most decisions right.
so you think has been taken from the aussies, and some are bitter about that. hes been exposed as not being exceptional as they thought, despite being very good. his dented reputation is due to the fact that our racing is far superior to theirs, not bacause aidan ob has messed the horse up. they should really get over it, because their giving out about aidan is petty, and nobody in this part of the world cares about the whiney and uneducated "journalists" that write this cr@p
the guy that wrote this article talks as if he knows it all, but mentions nothing about the major decision makers, ie the 3 owners. the fact that he doesnt know that leads me to think hes clueless!
they cant get everything right needless to say, but the fact that theyre one of the largest and most successful bloodstock operations in the world indicates that they get most decisions right.
so you think has been taken from the aussies, and some are bitter about that. hes been exposed as not being exceptional as they thought, despite being very good. his dented reputation is due to the fact that our racing is far superior to theirs, not bacause aidan ob has messed the horse up. they should really get over it, because their giving out about aidan is petty, and nobody in this part of the world cares about the whiney and uneducated "journalists" that write this cr@p
triumphoragony 03 Oct 11 22:56
not that good imo they paid millions for it pure hype(coolmore hype? )
They still will make millions from him aswell and he will never have to ship to the Northern Hemisphere either. This Aussie tripe shows that they still think this horse is the best the world has ever seen and they will have the best of their mares lined upready to go once he lands.
On another note Aussies are mad they are still sour after the Ireland rugby game
not that good imo they paid millions for it pure hype(coolmore hype? )
They still will make millions from him aswell and he will never have to ship to the Northern Hemisphere either. This Aussie tripe shows that they still think this horse is the best the world has ever seen and they will have the best of their mares lined upready to go once he lands.
On another note Aussies are mad they are still sour after the Ireland rugby game
btw, sir henry is one of my fav trainers, but until the time that henry is presented with aobs situation or vice versa, their ability is incomparable
btw, sir henry is one of my fav trainers, but until the time that henry is presented with aobs situation or vice versa, their ability is incomparable
Reve,as much as anyone could think the writer is biased you have to admit as far as SYT is concerned.
HE F..ked up,alone or with help he did not do the horse justice.
Who is next in line for "The best I have ever trained"?
Even allpress cant jinx a horse like AOB.nap
HE F..ked up,alone or with help he did not do the horse justice.
Who is next in line for "The best I have ever trained"?
Even allpress cant jinx a horse like AOB.nap
"This is a guy who never has to worry about grinding out winners in the bottom tier of racing"
Didn't O'Brien make his name by being a phenomenal success as a jumps trainer...which led to him being head-hunted for the Ballydoyle job
Didn't O'Brien make his name by being a phenomenal success as a jumps trainer...which led to him being head-hunted for the Ballydoyle job
GeorgeB,he was a one horse band and without JP would not even have had a drum kit.nap
Istabraq would have won 5 CHs with Nicky.[;)]
Istabraq would have won 5 CHs with Nicky.[;)]
correct george.
gt, aidans job is to train, as i say targets and tactics are collective
collectively i think a few thingswent wrong, but i cant criticse the training tbh.
aidan didnt tell joseph to bump syt etc etc.
the horse hasnt lived up toexpectations, mainly because hes not as good as first thought by the aussies, and secondly because coolmore and ballydoyle needless tosay let on he was the best theyve had.
Not even Aidan O’Brien could stuff that part up surely… can you really take on board anything this lad says, who dismisses aidans training ability and who talks about him as if hes clueless?
gt, aidans job is to train, as i say targets and tactics are collective
collectively i think a few thingswent wrong, but i cant criticse the training tbh.
aidan didnt tell joseph to bump syt etc etc.
the horse hasnt lived up toexpectations, mainly because hes not as good as first thought by the aussies, and secondly because coolmore and ballydoyle needless tosay let on he was the best theyve had.
Not even Aidan O’Brien could stuff that part up surely… can you really take on board anything this lad says, who dismisses aidans training ability and who talks about him as if hes clueless?
gt, i know youre not a fan of aidan and your obviosly entitledto your opinion, but facts are facts
he won grade ones over jumps with more than just istabraq
ever hear of
shaunies lady?
urubande?
double symphony?
thats my man?
royal mountbrowne?
private peace?
theyre not all the one horse are they?
he won grade ones over jumps with more than just istabraq
ever hear of
shaunies lady?
urubande?
double symphony?
thats my man?
royal mountbrowne?
private peace?
theyre not all the one horse are they?
rscaughtboy 03 Oct 11 23:26
GeorgeB,he was a one horse band and without JP would not even have had a drum kit.nap
Istabraq would have won 5 CHs with Nicky.
-----------
drugged up to the eye-balls though!
GeorgeB,he was a one horse band and without JP would not even have had a drum kit.nap
Istabraq would have won 5 CHs with Nicky.
-----------
drugged up to the eye-balls though!
Never heard of them reve,were they as good as Dexies Midnight runners?
Dont get prissy mightymoyes,unless you want to talk about Cape Blanco and LASIX the other night.[:p]
[:p]
The thing that amuses me is that the excuse made for So You Think in the Melbourne Cup is that he pulled too hard during the race, so then when he's pulling hard early on and throwing his head about in the Prince of Wales and the pacemaker is rushed up to give him a lead, the horse starts to settle but because he still got beaten the Aussies obviously lay the blame on Ryan Moore for going too early when he was 2nd or 3rd all the way until taking it up with 3f to go.
Yet in that very same article above the writer states regarding the Arc ride:
Had he (O'Brien) not looked at any of his Australian runs? Never once had SYT been ridden back – he’s always near the pace, suiting his style of gradually increasing the tempo and accelerating away, rather than flying home late. He’s not that kind of horse.
Then look at the Racing Post comments for all of SYT's wins this season bar the Arc:
Tracked leaders in 3rd, closer entering straight, headway to lead under 2f out, soon asserted, stayed on strongly final furlong, easily Won
Tracked leader in 2nd, led under 3f out, pushed along and challenged 2f out, asserted over 1f out, kept on strongly, easily. Won
Raced keenly, disputed lead for 2f, chased leaders, went 2nd over 3f out, kicked into lead well over 2f out and soon edged right, just over 2 lengths clear entering final 2f, hard ridden over 1f out, all out inside final furlong, worn down close home 2nd to Rewilding
Tracked leading pair, went 2nd over 2f out, shaken up to close over 1f out, ran on determinedly to lead last 150yds, ridden out won
Chased leader in moderate 2nd, improved to lead 2f out, soon ridden and strongly pressed, maintained lead and kept on well from 1 1/2f out won
So the horse is practically given the same ride every time and the exact one the writer goes on about but because it gets beaten in the PoW then it's the jockey's fault.
Yet in that very same article above the writer states regarding the Arc ride:
Had he (O'Brien) not looked at any of his Australian runs? Never once had SYT been ridden back – he’s always near the pace, suiting his style of gradually increasing the tempo and accelerating away, rather than flying home late. He’s not that kind of horse.
Then look at the Racing Post comments for all of SYT's wins this season bar the Arc:
Tracked leaders in 3rd, closer entering straight, headway to lead under 2f out, soon asserted, stayed on strongly final furlong, easily Won
Tracked leader in 2nd, led under 3f out, pushed along and challenged 2f out, asserted over 1f out, kept on strongly, easily. Won
Raced keenly, disputed lead for 2f, chased leaders, went 2nd over 3f out, kicked into lead well over 2f out and soon edged right, just over 2 lengths clear entering final 2f, hard ridden over 1f out, all out inside final furlong, worn down close home 2nd to Rewilding
Tracked leading pair, went 2nd over 2f out, shaken up to close over 1f out, ran on determinedly to lead last 150yds, ridden out won
Chased leader in moderate 2nd, improved to lead 2f out, soon ridden and strongly pressed, maintained lead and kept on well from 1 1/2f out won
So the horse is practically given the same ride every time and the exact one the writer goes on about but because it gets beaten in the PoW then it's the jockey's fault.
though he wasnt breaking any rules the other night was he?
The 14 draw wasn’t a concern, there wasn’t that much pace up front, and stablemate Treasure Beach crossed from 12 to take exactly that spot I’d identified on the speedmap.
Head in hands
Head in hands
Aidan O'Brien is an absolute genius and without doubt he's the greatest Flat trainer of all time. The hard work and commitment he puts in seven days a week is the mark of a man with an unrivalled passion for the sport and for every single horse he trains at Ballydoyle.
Rules or not HRA and co do not rely on drugs.
Unlike me and zarkavadisivola who like a tipple but can always catch a few,drunk,sober or high.[;)]
Unlike me and zarkavadisivola who like a tipple but can always catch a few,drunk,sober or high.[;)]
Soldieroffortune take it you have never heard of Dr MV O'Brien then?
Were you Pioneer Corps?[;)]
Were you Pioneer Corps?
[;)]
ffs i would like to see linda perrat or mel brittain with the ammunition he has do you reckon they would not be able to train them?
training road work for 6 weeks cantering for 4 then depending on the horse one or two gallops aweek to keep it ticking over it aint brain surgery,
course records are not being shattered every week by these super horses a lot of them have stood for years .
training road work for 6 weeks cantering for 4 then depending on the horse one or two gallops aweek to keep it ticking over it aint brain surgery,
course records are not being shattered every week by these super horses a lot of them have stood for years .
ima, the lon and the short of it is the aussies thought syt was better than he is, and arent fond of ballydoyle for taking him from them. i shed a tear for them, i really do[smiley:crazy]
its boring really and it shows the state of their racing and racing journalists when theyre still whinging about so you think
maybe one day theyll get a horse worth talking about
its boring really and it shows the state of their racing and racing journalists when theyre still whinging about so you think
maybe one day theyll get a horse worth talking about
ian semple is sending out winners with a gallop smaller than shawfield dog track ,it is not feckin brain surgery.
look at the inbred braindead chinless wonders who used to be top trainers it aint feckin brain surgery,
look at the inbred braindead chinless wonders who used to be top trainers it aint feckin brain surgery,
Ginger McCain would have 16 Grand Nationals,12 Champion Hurdles and as many Gold Cups as you could shake a stick at with AOBs ammo.
Not to mention multiple guineas,Derby's and Legers,he liked the minor events.[;)]
Not to mention multiple guineas,Derby's and Legers,he liked the minor events.[;)]
there are hundreds of trainers who could train group ne winners day in day out with very good horses like aidan does, but his jumps winners shows hes very good, making an awful lot from little ammunition
What about MV then reve?
AOB cant hold a candle to the doctor,never will,no matter how much is spent or how many horses he has..nap
AOB cant hold a candle to the doctor,never will,no matter how much is spent or how many horses he has..nap
rscaughtboy 03 Oct 11 23:26
GeorgeB,he was a one horse band and without JP would not even have had a drum kit.nap
Istabraq would have won 5 CHs with Nicky.
-----------
drugged up to the eye-balls though!
Binocular won when trained by O'Brien resting in Ireland.
He could not even pass a drug test with Henderson!
I am nor fan of O'Briien either but would rather have him then Henderson.
GeorgeB,he was a one horse band and without JP would not even have had a drum kit.nap
Istabraq would have won 5 CHs with Nicky.
-----------
drugged up to the eye-balls though!
Binocular won when trained by O'Brien resting in Ireland.
He could not even pass a drug test with Henderson!
I am nor fan of O'Briien either but would rather have him then Henderson.
AP`O Brien genius trainer.
Sir H Cecil genius trainer.
Dr V O`Brien genius trainer.
These men are and were masters of there trade in my view. Its been great 2 see Cecil come back 2 the top of the trainers ranks again in the last few seasons. AP O`Brien is without dought 1 of the best trainers in the world for me and will continue 2 be so for a long time 2 come, God willing. As for the late Great Vincent O`Brien he was prob the best of them all. I personally try not 2 be 2 critical of trainers or jockeys, as the all make mistakes and get things wrong, but the top trainers(like the men above) and the top jocks like say (Moore&Dettori) get it right on the big day most of the time.
Sir H Cecil genius trainer.
Dr V O`Brien genius trainer.
These men are and were masters of there trade in my view. Its been great 2 see Cecil come back 2 the top of the trainers ranks again in the last few seasons. AP O`Brien is without dought 1 of the best trainers in the world for me and will continue 2 be so for a long time 2 come, God willing. As for the late Great Vincent O`Brien he was prob the best of them all. I personally try not 2 be 2 critical of trainers or jockeys, as the all make mistakes and get things wrong, but the top trainers(like the men above) and the top jocks like say (Moore&Dettori) get it right on the big day most of the time.
agree the 3 are good in their own way..so is/was john oxx,jim bolger,martin pipe,paul nicholls,dermot weld but i would say that aidan o brien had himself proven as a master trainer before he was ever approached by magnier etc.he had broken all records in the nh field and was regrarded as a genius by anyone who ever worked with him(jim bolger in particular)...so to say anyone could do what hes doing displays an unblievable ignorance of whats required to get the very best from what hes given..
[i]Just imagine how long O’Brien would last if he was trainer for Nathan Tinkler and Patinack Farm?]/i]
That right there sums up aussie racing,a farm??FFS.How can they be taken serious??
That right there sums up aussie racing,a farm??FFS.How can they be taken serious??
'ima_mazed66
03 Oct 11 23:08
Yeah Aidan definitely mismanaged So You Think's career......he started running it against horses better than Aussie handicap plodders.'
That about sums it up imo....i dont like to stereotype but Australia does appear to have its fair share of gobsh!tes
03 Oct 11 23:08
Yeah Aidan definitely mismanaged So You Think's career......he started running it against horses better than Aussie handicap plodders.'
That about sums it up imo....i dont like to stereotype but Australia does appear to have its fair share of gobsh!tes
reve australian racing is 20 times what UK racing will ever be. you have cheltenham and ascot and thats about it. The rest of the year is filled up by all weather racing and trainer plots. in fact i would say british racing is a disgrace, the prize money is awful and the whole game is propped up by the arabs.
No sane person really disputes that uk stayers are far superior to ours. Can you tell me what happens when we send our 2nd rate sprinters over to the uk? to say we are in awe of british racing is the best laugh ive had for a while. We have the spring carnival coming up, the uk authorities could learn a thing or 2 about staging a major race meet.
So you think was hyped up no doubt and has probably proved a dissapointment to alot of aussies, but this forum is fast becomming the aussie bashing forum it seems.
No sane person really disputes that uk stayers are far superior to ours. Can you tell me what happens when we send our 2nd rate sprinters over to the uk? to say we are in awe of british racing is the best laugh ive had for a while. We have the spring carnival coming up, the uk authorities could learn a thing or 2 about staging a major race meet.
So you think was hyped up no doubt and has probably proved a dissapointment to alot of aussies, but this forum is fast becomming the aussie bashing forum it seems.
and duncan the same thing can be said for the UK
"the uk authorities could learn a thing or 2 about staging a major race meet".
millions being paid to celebrities to attend the Melbourne Cup Carnival, celebrities such as Sarah Jessica Parker, Jennifer Hawkins, Brian McFadden, Joan Collins, Scott Disick (Kourtney Kardashian's boyfriend), Alexandra and Theodora Richards (daughters of Rolling Stone Keith).
millions being paid to celebrities to attend the Melbourne Cup Carnival, celebrities such as Sarah Jessica Parker, Jennifer Hawkins, Brian McFadden, Joan Collins, Scott Disick (Kourtney Kardashian's boyfriend), Alexandra and Theodora Richards (daughters of Rolling Stone Keith).
I think you will find SergeantMarcel that a lot of the so called Aussie bashing is merely a case of some loud mouthed Aussies coming on here and giving it before SYT's bubble was burst but then can't take it once it was giving back both before and after the bubble actually burst.
You make some valid points about British racing (although we all know them ourselves anyway) and yes the prize money is appalling at a certain level, but that's the key point....at a certain level. That though would be like saying the Premier League is no good in England because we also have the lower divisions here too and the top end of British racing is fine.
And far from the Arabs propping up our racing, they have arguably harmed it as all they have really done is pushed up the price of horses in much the same way as the owners of Chelsea and Manchester City have of footballers, so the average and smaller owners who would pay £X for horses at the sales are now having to pay £XX for them or see the Arabs pay £XXX for them and a lot of the historically established British owners or their offspring have dropped out of the game, which funnily enough might explain in some way why Henry Cecil had such a bad time of it a few years back, yet I doubt he was doing much different to before, he just now no longer had the owners or horses.
Then you have these multi-million £ Arab horses running on the AW for a couple of thousand £ against a small owner with a string of maybe 4 or 5 or a group of mates who club together to buy a horse or a syndicate where a hair from the tail of the Arab horse probably costs more than the rest of the field put together, and the Arab horse being by a classic winner out of a classic winner wins in a canter where it's no more than a paid gallop for connections and so who then could blame the other owners for thinking they are banging their heads up against a brick wall?
You're also doing the old trick of cherry-picking the Aussie sprinters that have raced over here and yes you've had a handful that have won over the years, but you've had others come over that have done nothing, just as some UK and Irish horses have gone to Australia over the years and some have won or run well and others have also done nothing.
Oh and I think we know how to stage a racing meeting, or why would these Aussie horses even be coming over for Royal Ascot and the like?
You make some valid points about British racing (although we all know them ourselves anyway) and yes the prize money is appalling at a certain level, but that's the key point....at a certain level. That though would be like saying the Premier League is no good in England because we also have the lower divisions here too and the top end of British racing is fine.
And far from the Arabs propping up our racing, they have arguably harmed it as all they have really done is pushed up the price of horses in much the same way as the owners of Chelsea and Manchester City have of footballers, so the average and smaller owners who would pay £X for horses at the sales are now having to pay £XX for them or see the Arabs pay £XXX for them and a lot of the historically established British owners or their offspring have dropped out of the game, which funnily enough might explain in some way why Henry Cecil had such a bad time of it a few years back, yet I doubt he was doing much different to before, he just now no longer had the owners or horses.
Then you have these multi-million £ Arab horses running on the AW for a couple of thousand £ against a small owner with a string of maybe 4 or 5 or a group of mates who club together to buy a horse or a syndicate where a hair from the tail of the Arab horse probably costs more than the rest of the field put together, and the Arab horse being by a classic winner out of a classic winner wins in a canter where it's no more than a paid gallop for connections and so who then could blame the other owners for thinking they are banging their heads up against a brick wall?
You're also doing the old trick of cherry-picking the Aussie sprinters that have raced over here and yes you've had a handful that have won over the years, but you've had others come over that have done nothing, just as some UK and Irish horses have gone to Australia over the years and some have won or run well and others have also done nothing.
Oh and I think we know how to stage a racing meeting, or why would these Aussie horses even be coming over for Royal Ascot and the like?
Oops, only just seen your post duncan idaho and don't know whether your comment was specifically meant for me or for the original article writer by association but just for the record, I'm British, have been saying for month's that SYT whilst a decent horse is no superstar and I was being ironic with my post that you quoted. 
ima it is late and im not going to dissect your whole post, but the whole handicapping system in the UK is wrong, it cause dodginess, and im afraid that is what i associate with bristich racing is just plain dodginess. Something has to be done about the integrity of british horse racing before it is too late. The invention of betfair is probably the worst thing to ever to happen to british horse racing.
I think you will find every time a top rated sprinter comes over they win or come very close. We have had a whole string of second rate sprinters that have either won or run very well and our top rated sprinters generally win. Their is prestige and stud value associated with winning in the uk for aussie horses because the damn racing scene over there is just so obsessed with breeding and would obviously add a whole lot of value to certain horses.
Anyway i would like to make a more detailed argument but its 4 in the morning here but the anti aussie sentiment on this forum is something ive been noticing and been wanting to say for quite a while, its quite sickening to be honest. I do admit somes aussie do it to themselves but geez it seems like pure hatred in most cases but i have come to the conclusion it is just jealousy so will not be worrying myself with it anymore.
I think you will find every time a top rated sprinter comes over they win or come very close. We have had a whole string of second rate sprinters that have either won or run very well and our top rated sprinters generally win. Their is prestige and stud value associated with winning in the uk for aussie horses because the damn racing scene over there is just so obsessed with breeding and would obviously add a whole lot of value to certain horses.
Anyway i would like to make a more detailed argument but its 4 in the morning here but the anti aussie sentiment on this forum is something ive been noticing and been wanting to say for quite a while, its quite sickening to be honest. I do admit somes aussie do it to themselves but geez it seems like pure hatred in most cases but i have come to the conclusion it is just jealousy so will not be worrying myself with it anymore.
Ima amazed, yes, i know you were being ironic, i was agreeing with you, and the stereotype comment was aimed at the guy who wrote the article.
australian racing is 20 times what UK racing will ever be. you have cheltenham and ascot and thats about it.
that says enough
i admire your patriotism, but if you expect me to take you serious then you can think again
gone beyond repair i fear
that says enough
i admire your patriotism, but if you expect me to take you serious then you can think again
gone beyond repair i fear
Infairness Aussie racing is far better run than UK racing not many could argue with that.UK racing has been made bottom of the pack because its been r@ped by bookmakers and the upper echelons who run it.
Aussie racing doesnt have prestige anywhere like the UK and only the deluded could argue with that!
Btw on the Arab note isnt it the The Emirates Melbourne Cup on Emirates Stakes Day. You need there money just as much as any racing country does!
Aussie racing doesnt have prestige anywhere like the UK and only the deluded could argue with that!
Btw on the Arab note isnt it the The Emirates Melbourne Cup on Emirates Stakes Day. You need there money just as much as any racing country does!
SergeantMarcel you can compete with our sprinters as there is a stigma with them over here. Top stables over here such as Stoute and Cecil wouldn't be seen dead with a sprinter. If it doesn't stay a classic distance then it's not worth having.
In your neck of the woods it is desirable to breed sprinters so you have created a nice little niche for yourselves which can let you compete with horses overseas. As we are nottrying to breed champion sprinters, we have to rely on poorly bred handicappers progressing through the ranks.
To compete with our staying horses is different as you have to rely on the failed stallions that we send you. High Chapperal and SYT is a prime example. We have superstar sire Galileo in the ranks so it will be hard to compete with us unless you send your very best mares over here.
You say our races are propped up by arabs but I'm grateful that the very very best bred horses run over here thanks to the investment of Coolmore/Godolphin.
With regrds the aussie bashing, its just banter. However if it wasnt for the likes of Glen Mcgrath's big mouth over the years it might be a little more restrained.
In your neck of the woods it is desirable to breed sprinters so you have created a nice little niche for yourselves which can let you compete with horses overseas. As we are nottrying to breed champion sprinters, we have to rely on poorly bred handicappers progressing through the ranks.
To compete with our staying horses is different as you have to rely on the failed stallions that we send you. High Chapperal and SYT is a prime example. We have superstar sire Galileo in the ranks so it will be hard to compete with us unless you send your very best mares over here.
You say our races are propped up by arabs but I'm grateful that the very very best bred horses run over here thanks to the investment of Coolmore/Godolphin.
With regrds the aussie bashing, its just banter. However if it wasnt for the likes of Glen Mcgrath's big mouth over the years it might be a little more restrained.
giggitygiggity not really true what your saying the most expensive stallion standing in England at this very moment is a July Cup winner, the top sire of two year olds is a Diadem stakes winner and the top first season sire is a Sprint Cup winner also the greatest sire standing in the world at one time won that race the mighty Danehill. There is no stigma with decent or precocious sprinters at stud
I was saying the stigma is with the big trainers and owners. They are not looking for the next champion sprinter like they do abroad, they are looking for classic winners. I absolutely loved Danehill as a stallion but my point is when the big owners/trainers had a danehill, they were looking at staying a mile and the guineas. Targets of a July Cup came when there was not enough stamina.
My point is just that the aussies can compete with our sprinters as they have their own breeding operation and a good pool of stallions and mares. When it comes to middle distance types, they have to rely on our stallions so it's more difficult for them.
My point is just that the aussies can compete with our sprinters as they have their own breeding operation and a good pool of stallions and mares. When it comes to middle distance types, they have to rely on our stallions so it's more difficult for them.
I probably was being a bit haste in some of my comments. I just hear so much sh1t spoken on here. In regards to British Racing, i actually do really enjoy it, and bet on it more than aussie racing, but only due to the fact its easier to find winners. All the big festivals over there are awesome, but in between is a load of dross. Whose bright idea was it to load all the good meetings on a saturday and on sunday to friday have total rubbish with horses that are so bad they shouldnt be running. UK racing is filled with dogy charachters who in Australia would of been warned off the track years ago, people like Barney Curley for example. I guess that is what i was trying to get at.
With Australian racing there is so much more integrity invloved. Half the shenanigans that go on in the UK they would not get away with in Australia. There is so much ineptitude involved in British horseracing, its little wonder its dying a slow death. Australia recognises the racing industry is propped by the punters dollar, so in return they try to enfroce as much integrity as possible and in return have prize money that is actually worth winning. Most of the time there is no need to create a plot. Where exactly does all the gambling money in the UK go in the UK? it seems not to the racing industry itself. Instead it seems everyone is trying to fleece each other whilst they can.
Australia also has alot of its priorities wrong. There is so much emphasis on winning the Golden Slipper as a 2 year old, its the richest 2 year old race in the world. You dont get too many developing stayers from this race, and so much emphasis from the breeding indistry over here is due to the fact they have all the rich 2 year old sprint distance races.
With Australian racing there is so much more integrity invloved. Half the shenanigans that go on in the UK they would not get away with in Australia. There is so much ineptitude involved in British horseracing, its little wonder its dying a slow death. Australia recognises the racing industry is propped by the punters dollar, so in return they try to enfroce as much integrity as possible and in return have prize money that is actually worth winning. Most of the time there is no need to create a plot. Where exactly does all the gambling money in the UK go in the UK? it seems not to the racing industry itself. Instead it seems everyone is trying to fleece each other whilst they can.
Australia also has alot of its priorities wrong. There is so much emphasis on winning the Golden Slipper as a 2 year old, its the richest 2 year old race in the world. You dont get too many developing stayers from this race, and so much emphasis from the breeding indistry over here is due to the fact they have all the rich 2 year old sprint distance races.
Can anybody name me the last proper sprinter the uk or ireland have had?ie, not a failed guineas Horse??if you fail to stay in the classic's or just not good enough at a Mile then trainers have no choice but to try them as sprinters,thats the reality over this side of the world,Sprinters over here are all much of a muchness,there's a different winner each and every time a Group 1 sprint is ran,thats the real reason the aussies dominate like they do when they send one over here
the one's i can think of are oasis dream, mozart, stravinsky and lochsong. The first 3 werent bred to be out and out sprinters and lochsong progressed through the handicap ranks
There certainly aint many,oasis dream is providing us with stayers as well as sprinters these days,unbelievable sire
It was a shame Mozart died after only one crop. I think he could have produced a few champ sprinters.
It seems they use top sprint sires more for stamina laden mares instead of trying to breed out and out speedsters eg used Invincible spirit with galileo/sea the stars' dam urban sea
It seems they use top sprint sires more for stamina laden mares instead of trying to breed out and out speedsters eg used Invincible spirit with galileo/sea the stars' dam urban sea
sergeant, thats more like it. i agree with most of what you say!!
OK no problem duncan idaho, I did think that but was just checking.
The reason I used the expression cherry-picking Sergeant Marcel regarding the sprinters is that yes some of them have come over and won but the very same horses have also been beaten here and some others have come and won nothing.
Probably the flag-bearer was Choisir but he won the 2 Royal Ascot races and then the form was reversed against Oasis Dream at Newmarket for the July Cup. All of Cape of Good Hope, Takeover Target, Miss Andretti and Scenic Blast came over here and won races but were also beaten in races here too and as has already been mentioned, that's the nature of sprints here and some of those horses they beat then later beat them. It's the same with ex-Aussie horses like Starspangledbanner, won a few sprints here and lost a few, including finishing 2nd to a 100/1 shot. Others like Star Witness and War Artist have come over and won nothing here, so to just highlight the winning Aussie sprinters here would be like just highlight the winning British and Irish horses that have gone over there and won races.
On separate note, Mozart ran in the Irish 2,000 and Stravinsky ran in couple of 7f races, one of which could be considered a guineas trial and then dropped back to sprinting distances later on.
The reason I used the expression cherry-picking Sergeant Marcel regarding the sprinters is that yes some of them have come over and won but the very same horses have also been beaten here and some others have come and won nothing.
Probably the flag-bearer was Choisir but he won the 2 Royal Ascot races and then the form was reversed against Oasis Dream at Newmarket for the July Cup. All of Cape of Good Hope, Takeover Target, Miss Andretti and Scenic Blast came over here and won races but were also beaten in races here too and as has already been mentioned, that's the nature of sprints here and some of those horses they beat then later beat them. It's the same with ex-Aussie horses like Starspangledbanner, won a few sprints here and lost a few, including finishing 2nd to a 100/1 shot. Others like Star Witness and War Artist have come over and won nothing here, so to just highlight the winning Aussie sprinters here would be like just highlight the winning British and Irish horses that have gone over there and won races.
On separate note, Mozart ran in the Irish 2,000 and Stravinsky ran in couple of 7f races, one of which could be considered a guineas trial and then dropped back to sprinting distances later on.
Also wouldn't disagree with any of that, sgt marcel.....in response to 'Where exactly does all the gambling money in the UK go in the UK?', plenty goes to the shareholders of big bookies...capitalism over here doesnt see the bigger picture anymore, the profit motive is everything.
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