ADRIAN MASSEY REPLACEMENT

http://adrianmassey.no-ip.org/web1/

Err, that's finished now Deck. I'm trying to find a similar ratings site/service so that I can use past ratings (like those which Massey put up) to assess the likelihood of ratings success in FUTURE races. For example, if I have the ratings for each of the last 10 years' runnings of the Derby, I can see where the winner came in those ratings and apply that "rule" to the ratings for the current year's running.

Can anyone help?

www.horseracebase.com has ratings. The facility to investigate them will be added shortly.
You can also generate your own. Minimum price is €7.50 per month. You get loads more, take a look.

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Has Ady gone belly up?

Stopped doing the ratings from yesterday.

I can't understand why he didn't just handover to someone else.What a waste.

the site is still there although the database has not been updated with yesterday's results.
The Generate Custom Report facility is still available from what I can see.
Perhaps it's going to remain there but gradually becoming out of date?

I hope so,but similar clean cut CHECKABLE ratings urgently needed here.We'll see what Horseracebase's revamp looks like soon.Hopefully that will fill the void.

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Horseracebase latest.....

"Site Update

Unfortunately we have had issues with the upgrade and there have been several problems when testing live with some areas freezing and also some data conflicts, therefore we will not put it through this evening as had been planned. We are working on these continually and I will give another update soon. This will be the biggest upgrade of the site in a long time and it is vital we get it right, obviously rushing it on for the sake of it would be stupid. I will give update soon as know more."

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Have you thought of phoning the Thommo line artie?

Why ? Does he do checkable ratings Rab ?

No artie. Your hero gets straight to the crux of the matter.

artie

No checkable ratings - no interest here.

artie, a site that hasn't been mentioned on this thread yet is infineform.com (maria puts a word in for this site on her forum)

It has ratings and it has a results page with a Submit Query form to check past ratings/results. But there's something fishy about it imo - I think it's a relatively new site yet according to the results page it has a long history of ratings behind it.

Also there is no Year(s) parameter to the Submit Query form - again fishy if true

the above site is free btw

I've had a look,but it still appears to be under construction and there doesn't seem to be a way of checking bottom rated horses or an email address for questions/feedback.

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Why has AM stopped updating his database ?

"Change in personal circumstances".

Since I registered with INFINEFORM, the c rap n spam filling my inbox from so called tipsters has gone up 10 fold, maybe a coincidence!!??



Jon

think I'll steer well clear Jon, thanks for the advice

There's a few tutorials on Youtube for horseracebase.com.....looks pretty good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF-Id8cqnPM

horseracebase is a quality site imo

never looked at ratings but the profiler of horses and ability to run detailed queries can allow you to form your own.

Do you use the Draw analyser and Hot Races features, anfield? If so, do you find them useful? Am thinking of giving it a go this Flat season but will wait until upgrade sorted.

no mate can't say i've used them features.

Cheers anyway

Adrian Massey's site was an excellent resource and up until about a month ago I was using his data to lay horses with some good results. However after starting to look a little deeper I came to the conclusion that horses are a little bit like Athletes. What I mean is that if you were to look at Athlete's last few performances say over 1500m for example , you will see a common theme occurring.

Obviously there's no such thing as going or weight penalties in Athletics but the core data remains the same.

Let me explain further: If there is a handicap hurdle over 2m and last time out horse 1 ran the same distance on the same going in a time of 3m56.25s and horse 2 ran last time out the same distance on the same going in a time of 4m07.10s there is a 11 second difference between performances. Now 11 seconds doesn't sound much but if 1 length = roughly 2.5 metres and 1 second equal roughly 5 lengths, in this instance 11 seconds equals 55 lengths. Now that sounds crazy!!! There is no way horse 2 will ever beat horse 1.

Add into the equation that their next race is the same going and horse 1 has a 6lb penalty and horse 2 has a 4lbs reduction there is still not much chance of horse 2 closing up a 55 length gap.

This is a very basic example but I think you can see where I'm going. There are other factors to take into consideration but that's the gist of it.

It takes me on a 3 meeting card about 3 hours in the morning to trawl through the data. I started with real money with just £20  last Wednesday and my balance as of today is £202 .

All I do is take into account speed, distance, time, going, weight, and  find out each horses speed in meteres per second and lay the slowest horse with weight and going taken into consideration.

I never lay horses with odds greater that 17.0

I've been paper laying for about a month prior to starting with £20 and my strike rate is hovering around the 94/95% mark which is damn good. Oh, one other thing liability, not going to say what my staking plan is but you should ask the question what is my win to loss ratio?

I find it so rewarding knowing that I have found a way using my own judgement, while Adrian Massey's data was an excellent resource all I can say that if your prepared to do some leg work you can achieve some good results.

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Further to iBETu's post the day before yesterday.

By utilising the horseracebase System Builder it takes only a few seconds to come up with a list of horses running today that are tackling the same going and race distance as encountered on their last UK run, together with their forecast odds in today's race.

Please note that race distances on horseracebase are grouped thus: 5f, 5

It would appear that most of my previous post is floating around somewhere in cyberspace.  Right, where was I?  Oh yes.

Please note that race distances on horseracebase are grouped thus: 5f, 5.1/2f, 6f, 6.1/2f etc, etc.

Here are todays 'same going, same distance' qualifiers.

Marleybow (IRE)	14:10	Haydock	8
Rebel High (IRE)	14:20	Warwick	33
Red Whisper	14:55	Warwick	50
Tiger Dream	15:40	Hereford	16
Hectors Choice (FR)	16:25	Haydock	2.75
Laureate des Loges (FR)	16:40	Warwick	8
Petrus De Sormain (FR)	16:50	Hereford	16
Galley Slave (IRE)	17:10	Warwick	14
Way To Finish	17:30	Haydock	25
Skarloey	17:40	Warwick	33
Abigails Angel	17:50	Kempton	5
Aines Delight (IRE)	17:50	Kempton	10
Iguacu	17:50	Kempton	4
Vinces	18:20	Kempton	9
Carr Hall (IRE)	18:20	Kempton	3
Moresweets n Lace	18:50	Kempton	5.5
Peachez	18:50	Kempton	7
Kylladdie	19:20	Kempton	4.5
Island Legend (IRE)	19:20	Kempton	4.5
Desert Strike	19:20	Kempton	4
Bookiesindex Boy	19:20	Kempton	14
Young Simon	19:50	Kempton	6
Mata Hari Blue	19:50	Kempton	4.5
Wellington Fair	19:50	Kempton	16
Do More Business (IRE)	19:50	Kempton	0
Jonny Ebeneezer	19:50	Kempton	4
Chantilly Jewel (USA)	19:50	Kempton	3.33
Little Perisher	19:50	Kempton	14
Arizona John (IRE)	20:20	Kempton	8
Sir Boss (IRE)	20:20	Kempton	3
Russian George (IRE)	20:20	Kempton	5
Sweet Origin	20:20	Kempton	1.5
Clear Sailing	20:20	Kempton	20
Sunshine Always (IRE)	20:50	Kempton	5
Lisahane Bog	20:50	Kempton	6
Hill Tribe	20:50	Kempton	14
Florio Vincitore (IRE)	20:50	Kempton	14
Ensnare	20:50	Kempton	20
Eastern Gift	20:50	Kempton	8
Hereford Boy	20:50	Kempton	20
Having A Ball	20:50	Kempton	16
Hi Spec (IRE)	21:20	Kempton	14
Cavalry Guard (USA)	21:20	Kempton	10
Grand Honour (IRE)	21:20	Kempton	11
Lend A Light	21:20	Kempton	9
Teen Ager (FR)	21:20	Kempton	14

iBETu - http://www.patternform.co.uk looks like it is right up your street.

Smar Tarse

You could well be right.

Just looked at the 5:50 at Kempton today with settings Going Std, Race Distance 10f and Run Order 1 - Last Run.

Interesting.

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Ratings Plus are good
Frontline Software is good
relayman website has a nice ratings system called ashton

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Hi Folks

Have tried

http://www.infineform.com/results.php

wonder if this thread is now being used by spammers

I just idly wonder, that's all

Doesn't matter,if they come up with something good.

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The problem with using any ratings service imo is that you are relying on the work of another to form the basis of your betting decisions.

You really have no idea how much work went into the ratings that you subsequently use as the basis of your wagering.

Which leads me onto the point of my post. Why not compile your own? If you cannot trust yourself to put the work in then who can you trust?

This is not meant as a reflection on AM or any other compiler btw. What I am suggesting is that there might be more mileage in doing it yourself. The information is yours & nobody else will have it. What could be better than that?

(before anyone asks, I am not topspeed)

DaveEdwards

Good idea. 

I've already decided that when horseracebase simplify the means by which you can create your own ratings I'll be giving it a go.  Hopefully that day is not too far away judging by recent blog posts.

If ratings compilers provide a large database so one can check the accuracy of the ratings, then one can find out "how much work" went into them.To compile your own ratings ,I think you need to be interested in the sport of horse racing.I'm not.I just want the money from betting.

The following would never be able to be proved either way, but I'd quite happily lay odds that the best ratings have never reached the public domain.

Still you pay your money & you take your choice. If you prefer to use the same information as others & can still make some money then fair enough.

;.

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Looks promising.......

Rating Rank	Bets	Wins	Win%	Places	Places%	P/L
1	239	109	45.61%	163	68.20%	3.64
2	106	37	34.91%	60	56.60%	18.85
3	58	22	37.93%	35	60.34%	50.01
4	47	5	10.64%	15	31.91%	1.25
5	19	6	31.58%	12	63.16%	19.91
6	23	2	8.70%	10	43.48%	-4.25
7	17	1	5.88%	6	35.29%	-4
8	19	4	21.05%	8	42.11%	30
9	12	2	16.67%	6	50.00%	11
10	5	0	0.00%	1	20.00%	-5
11	2	0	0.00%	0	0.00%	-2
12	3	0	0.00%	0	0.00%	-3
13	4	0	0.00%	1	25.00%	-4
14+	2	0	0.00%	0	0.00%	-2

vg
see that artie's No 1 requirement is, in fact, there

Not really.Those figures don't look like 5 years. Are they ?

No.

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There's some to check on this list
http://www.ukhorselinks.co.uk/form-ratings.html
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This one was recommended here http://www.expertbettingadvice.co.uk/forum/thread26384.html
http://www.racingfigures.com/index.htm
...

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Now 11 seconds doesn't sound much but if 1 length = roughly 2.5 metres and 1 second equal roughly 5 lengths, in this instance 11 seconds equals 55 lengths. Now that sounds crazy!!! There is no way horse 2 will ever beat horse 1.
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before you start making some basic mistakes its worth understanding what "distances" mean.  in UK racing, the finishing times alone are measured, but for historical (another word might be "idiotic") reasons, these are then converted to rounded distances, based on variable formulas depending on the type of race (flat, jump, aw) and/or going. 

http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/media/releaseDetail.asp?item=085716

* its worth noting that the press release announces the change in calculation, so in effect a length had a different meaning before and after Feb 25 2008.  well done BHA

RACEFORM INTERACIVE...Maybe you have heard of it?

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RACEFORM..or are you too tight?

Does Raceform have a Database where you you can do research on the ratings for the last 5 years or more ?

arties firing blanks

Artie's asking sensible questions .

10 years flat & jump form in an Access database. Free to download. 9.99 a month for daily updates.
http://www.racingsense.com/download.htm
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Raceform is too expensive imo

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still drifting rudderless artie?

No,witlesstut.New Horseracebase seems to do the job I want.

pleased to hear it

the upgrade is ongoing over the next few days they say

watch out for bugs

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Thought you'd found horseracebase, artie....what's with the .s?

Very good site but....Maybe not what I'm looking for.

Yeah, it is a good site....wish there was a few more hours in the day to make the most of it.

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