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We were just over a terrible WW, all the returning heroes, no jobs but money to burn, in there pockets joined one of the strongest betting rings, in our history, one of the strongest betting rings in history,
Every Bookmaker in the land wanted to take a chance and get Tudor Minstrel beat that was except William Hill.
along with a mass of uniforms were all the great and true, people like, Aga Khan, Selfredge, and pros like Scotch Jonny, who handled all the real hot money at the time..
William Hill the Biggest Board Bookmaker including Percy Thomas. we had seen, had been very easy on the Gordon Richards, mount, ,in the Anti Post, Book, having been told personally that it wasn't even the best 3 year old in the stable and Fred Darling its trainer was a genius, any distance over a miles his dark horse would give the 2000 gns favourite 10 pound and a beating.
This information convinced William that he should take a stand and pepper Tudor Minstrel. even after it had won with the proverbial ton in hand, there was a massive queue around his joint not for payment but to get on for the Derby.
Tudor Minstrel was to win with a stone in hand, and was backed down to odds on, for Epsom.
With a liability that was record breaking. the dark Horses went wrong.
The rest is history.
cubone.
Every Bookmaker in the land wanted to take a chance and get Tudor Minstrel beat that was except William Hill.
along with a mass of uniforms were all the great and true, people like, Aga Khan, Selfredge, and pros like Scotch Jonny, who handled all the real hot money at the time..
William Hill the Biggest Board Bookmaker including Percy Thomas. we had seen, had been very easy on the Gordon Richards, mount, ,in the Anti Post, Book, having been told personally that it wasn't even the best 3 year old in the stable and Fred Darling its trainer was a genius, any distance over a miles his dark horse would give the 2000 gns favourite 10 pound and a beating.
This information convinced William that he should take a stand and pepper Tudor Minstrel. even after it had won with the proverbial ton in hand, there was a massive queue around his joint not for payment but to get on for the Derby.
Tudor Minstrel was to win with a stone in hand, and was backed down to odds on, for Epsom.
With a liability that was record breaking. the dark Horses went wrong.
The rest is history.
cubone.
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1947, Don.
If there was a dark horse in Fred Darling's stable who, " could give give "10lbs and a beating," to Tudor Minstrel -
Then they must have turned it into metal, and named it Concorde !
Such a 'dark horse' can surely have never existed.
Look at the essay on Tudor Minstrel in Bull's 'Best Horses of 1947' ' -
- there is a photograph taken at halfway in the 2000 guineas, showing Gordon stood up in the stirrups, on a loose rein, 6 or more lengths in front, with the others all 'rowing away' already.
Tudor Minstrel must have been imperious.
If there was a dark horse in Fred Darling's stable who, " could give give "10lbs and a beating," to Tudor Minstrel -
Then they must have turned it into metal, and named it Concorde !
Such a 'dark horse' can surely have never existed.
Look at the essay on Tudor Minstrel in Bull's 'Best Horses of 1947' ' -
- there is a photograph taken at halfway in the 2000 guineas, showing Gordon stood up in the stirrups, on a loose rein, 6 or more lengths in front, with the others all 'rowing away' already.
Tudor Minstrel must have been imperious.
onlooker you have made the same mistake that 1000s have in the past,
the Derby is a different race and the extra 1/2 m, and formation of the track has beaten many a 2000 gns certainty.
i am only taking Fred Darlings opinion, for what this horse was doing to the 2000 gn fav at home.
William was some shrewd cookie, and once he was in it at 7/1 he had to go on. once the dark horses was lame he was in a serious position.
But made his name with the braveness, he became known for, something that has not been passed on to the new William Hill executives.
cubone
the Derby is a different race and the extra 1/2 m, and formation of the track has beaten many a 2000 gns certainty.
i am only taking Fred Darlings opinion, for what this horse was doing to the 2000 gn fav at home.
William was some shrewd cookie, and once he was in it at 7/1 he had to go on. once the dark horses was lame he was in a serious position.
But made his name with the braveness, he became known for, something that has not been passed on to the new William Hill executives.
cubone
Your original post reads to me that this mysterious 'dark horse' was cantering all over Tudor Minstrel at home -
otherwise, how did they 'know' ?
- and, as Tudor Minstrel would hardly be working over further than a mile at home - IF that - given that it was being trained for the 1 mile 2000 Guineas - iI still doubt the dark horse being kosher.
otherwise, how did they 'know' ?
- and, as Tudor Minstrel would hardly be working over further than a mile at home - IF that - given that it was being trained for the 1 mile 2000 Guineas - iI still doubt the dark horse being kosher.
onlooker with all due respect the information as to the way horses were going at home made Williams Hills fortune during the very lucrative Anti Post, years.1935 to 65
He had horses wth scores of the top trainers, and knew withi a few days to go, when horses were taken out of the classics and other great anti post races/
the meeting that he held with Fred Darling, one of his Trainers, was quoted word for word by one of racing most honourable men.
Geoffrey Hamlyn.
Perhaps you could take a look at the quote after all everything cannot be a lye..
"my 60 Years in the Ring"
cubone.co.uk
He had horses wth scores of the top trainers, and knew withi a few days to go, when horses were taken out of the classics and other great anti post races/
the meeting that he held with Fred Darling, one of his Trainers, was quoted word for word by one of racing most honourable men.
Geoffrey Hamlyn.
Perhaps you could take a look at the quote after all everything cannot be a lye..
"my 60 Years in the Ring"
cubone.co.uk
It was the way the horse ran its races that convinced Darling and Will Hill a breeding expert, they as he couldn't be held up. he would last out the 2000 gns but the 1. 1/2 of the derby would not be,to far.
The dark horse was in the able hands of Fred Darling voted by all as trainings greatest until Vincent arrived. so we have to take his word for it,
cubone
The dark horse was in the able hands of Fred Darling voted by all as trainings greatest until Vincent arrived. so we have to take his word for it,
cubone
sorry would be to far...lolol and that proved the case. from the start to the finish Tudor Minstrel pulled Gordens arms out of the sockets, before finishing a bad 4th.
cubone
cubone
Hillary if you can get Geoffrey,s Book, on ebay cheap I bet,, it is a great read.
Thank you for your kind comment.
cubone
Thank you for your kind comment.
cubone
I would love to know the name of this horse.
Did it run as a two-year-old ?
When I get time, later, I will read the full Phil Bull essay on Tudor Minstrel, to see if there is any mention on this.
Good & Betts 'Winners for 1947' - a publication that annually concentrated on the best 2-yr-olds, from all the top stables - outlining their chances for their second season - lists Fred darling's two-year-olds of 1946 as ... in order of preference, too ...
Tudor Minstrel ... " From his trainer I learn that Tudor Minstrel can do no wrong either in or out of the stable ...... "His jockey tells me that he has never thrown a leg across a horse who answers so readily to every call that his made upon him."
Nebuchadnezzar ... " ... there are colts of his age in the Beckhampton stable that I like a great deal better."
Underwood ... "He is not of the quick active sort ... he still needs time to furnish his heavy frame ... His hocks are rather too close together, It is the horse that goes wide behind that gets over the ground in the quickest time, as a rule."
Glendower ... " he was seen but once last season, and was then too backward to make much of a show. He has weak knees. I believe the stable estimate of him is that he will make a nice stayer without being in the top class."
Combat ... "... Like his more illustrious stable companion, in the same ownership as Tudor Minstrel. Combat did not, in his first season, race over more than five furlongs."
Blue Train ... " No more backward colt than Blue Train won a race last season. He was fortunate to find a poor lot in his only race, the Swinley Forest Stakes. The big overgrown son of Blue Peter had shown his connections nothing at home in way to warrant his being fancied for the race .... He is a big horse for the Epsom course ... Blue Train is an ideal individual for the St Leger... etc "
Apparition ... Filly.
Did it run as a two-year-old ?
When I get time, later, I will read the full Phil Bull essay on Tudor Minstrel, to see if there is any mention on this.
Good & Betts 'Winners for 1947' - a publication that annually concentrated on the best 2-yr-olds, from all the top stables - outlining their chances for their second season - lists Fred darling's two-year-olds of 1946 as ... in order of preference, too ...
Tudor Minstrel ... " From his trainer I learn that Tudor Minstrel can do no wrong either in or out of the stable ...... "His jockey tells me that he has never thrown a leg across a horse who answers so readily to every call that his made upon him."
Nebuchadnezzar ... " ... there are colts of his age in the Beckhampton stable that I like a great deal better."
Underwood ... "He is not of the quick active sort ... he still needs time to furnish his heavy frame ... His hocks are rather too close together, It is the horse that goes wide behind that gets over the ground in the quickest time, as a rule."
Glendower ... " he was seen but once last season, and was then too backward to make much of a show. He has weak knees. I believe the stable estimate of him is that he will make a nice stayer without being in the top class."
Combat ... "... Like his more illustrious stable companion, in the same ownership as Tudor Minstrel. Combat did not, in his first season, race over more than five furlongs."
Blue Train ... " No more backward colt than Blue Train won a race last season. He was fortunate to find a poor lot in his only race, the Swinley Forest Stakes. The big overgrown son of Blue Peter had shown his connections nothing at home in way to warrant his being fancied for the race .... He is a big horse for the Epsom course ... Blue Train is an ideal individual for the St Leger... etc "
Apparition ... Filly.
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