elusive pimpernel

If they were the price would you ?

same price , sorry

elusive would make a good hurdler.

bookies will be cranking the hype in the morning.dont fall for it.

If SNA wins this we are talking in terms of another Sea The Stars. My research leads me to believe that SNA is not in the same stratosphere as StS and at 11-10 has to be opposed in one way or another.

personally id rather back EP for a place than back the fav to win!!

has an awful action.Can see it veering badly,changing legs and losing action in the dip if the going is proper top of the ground.

Lol, loved the dip last time ^^^

ffs knavesmire, what a clueless comment

i said if the going was "proper top of the ground".
It's last race on good to firm at newmarket rowley was run slower than standard,in fact a similar time to its run on good to soft at donny....therefore last time out wasnt proper top of ground,

Craven winners always disapoint in this race it seems

what about the jock on top, does anyone really trust this guy? can see loads of threads tomorrow stating that he ballz it up or something more sinister.

Hope they come up the middle for all your sakes, imo he doesnt do it quickly enough to run through a field from the 1 draw.

you'll see.I said the same about Dubawi

Win only
You have a lot to learn.

I am with Knasmire on that, however ground will be more good then road like

cheers bullet,you know what i mean about its round high action.Watch it change legs in the dip last out on good going...not real top of ground.

knavesmire, was the craven run at newbury this season?

don't like the draw and don't like the jockey.

win only
Are you ok?

everone watch its last run in the craven and watch its suspect action.

I agree with Knavesmire completely. The horse does have an awful action that's possibly suspect on real fast ground. You have to remember with the soft ground excuses, Ahern said the time before that EP was struggling to handle the ground at York, which was fast, and he was changing his legs that day. Then when he was given a softer surface in the RP Trophy and he couldn't quicken out of it?

he was impressive last time, course form and one thing he did do was produce a turn of foot that he didnt seem to have as a 2 yr old!!its still good to firm at the moment so has a lot more pro's than cons at this stage!!obviously we dont know whats gonna happen tomorrow but id imagine his chances of a place are better than st nich's of winning IMO!has a montjeu ever won the guineas?how many rp trophy winners have won guineas? see, the same can be said for st nich, the stats are completely against him!!just sayin if craven winners dont do well in it, his stats have to be mentioned!!

he ran well on good to soft...it was good really...see the time.He was beat by a very good colt.

I dont fancy the horse to be honest, craven was full of hounds, draw 1 and cant see how it will beat SNA, but to say it might lose it action in the dip is pure sh1te. Ground was quick in the craven was it not?

I'm going to keep an eye on elusive and see how he handles the dip.If he veers and gets beat a couple of lengths staying on...a bit like dubawi...then back for irish 2000.

o brien 2nd string has a live chance too!!must do, 2nd ever start and almost wins the dewhurst!!johnny often gets it wrong too, dewhurst for example, and also stuck with rvw last ur when fame finished ahead of him!!nich could be exceptional but he'll have to be to win tomorrow!!

win only
You are clueless not i.The winning time of craven was over a second slow and it was early season.The going wasnt proper top of ground...as i said earlier.

The winning times of the racing post and the craven were similar yet one on good to soft n one on good to firm,therefore seems like both goings were good or thereabouts..

showed an incredible burst of accelaration to win at newmarket on fast ground.they wont get near him.

ilikewavingbuses
I am thinking the same lines.The dewhurst is a proper race...unlike the craven.

Elusive pimpernell will be better upped in trip. Awzaan is my ew as I think the fav is a good one. Although I think the best bet is to lay canford cliffs not to place.

the going stick was 8.7 at the craven, 2morrow its 9.1 and light showers forecast .


take your insults elsewhere

GL ilwab!

winn only
You started with the insults not i.
I advise you to go away for 5 years,learn as much as you can,listen to people,dont just pluck stupid words out of the air.

what stupid words have I used, oh great one.

If the going is good then elusive still doesnt have the form to win the guineas.

You can poke your stats, mean fook all most of the time

yeah id say the dewhurst win end up being better form!!steinbeck did travel like the best horse tho!!!just its hard to ignore ELUSIVE P form at course and style of victory lto!!moore aint on board tho, i kno ahern usually rides and is a good jockey in his own right but id rather ryan myself!!stall 1 too, not ideal!!

has an awful action.Can see it veering badly,changing legs and losing action in the dip if the going is proper top of the ground.

Lol

Diamond
What do you think of its action? and the way it handled the dip last out?

youll learn that the craven isnt a great guineas trial.

well diamond?....you cant just say "lol" without anything to back it up.

Go away for 5 years and learn to stop thinking you have the game by the b0llox and that everyone who has a different outlook should be barked down.

I am bringing something to the table here,its obviously going over your head win only.

I want to know where this "Turn of foot " that will get him out of trouble from draw one is

Backers praying they go up the middle

here we go again, belittling people. Arrogant little man

agree zil, shocking berth.

win only
you started it all mate.
I just came on and said i wouldnt like its awful action on PROPER TOP in the dip.
Whats wrong with that?.

All i can go on now is the sight of it winning the racing post , didnt even look to be trying and sailed past decent animals , magnificent sight , cant back against that .

knavemire, can you explain how ground decribed as good to firm, with a going stick assesment of 8.7 was not good to firm please. and also how 2morrows ground can be anything but a tiny fraction quicker.

just bringing that to the table old son (again as you failed to respond before)

AOB has this race sewn up.

" knavemire, can you explain how ground decribed as good to firm, with a going stick assesment of 8.7 was not good to firm please. and also how 2morrows ground can be anything but a tiny fraction quicker."
I already explained.
Scroll back.

" The winning times of the racing post and the craven were similar yet one on good to soft n one on good to firm,therefore seems like both goings were good or thereabouts.."

still cant see it, illustrious master.

pmsl, and you want me to go and learn.

deary me

wont be posting here again,its full of betting shop types.No idea most of ya.

win only
I make a living from betting.What do you do?

so it was good to soft at newmarket was it?

Good to soft??? you muppet..i said is was goodish...you are useless.

Knaves what you think about Fencing Master i think this could cause a shock.

Arrogant arrogant arrogant

"im a pro punter so I know everything about racing"

I will stop conversing with you, as you will end up being unable to talk from that far up your own @rse

Fencing master ran good in dewhurst and is trained by AOB...what else do you want?

I know a lot about racing,so much that i know its a mugs game.

lol for someone who makes money out of gambling good analysis not money**intree could of said that what a let down, and i serious about it running a good race.

georgy gee
Cant understand you

the draw might beat him, and a muddling pace might beat him, but the notion that his "awful action" will beat him is total bllox

Well ive had a bottle of vodka, but i was asking you a serious question cos i thought u might have something useful to say, obviously not.

Cross out every colt not trained by godolphin,AOB or Stoute....thats for starters.

The Dewhurst is miles behind the racingpost trophey it would seem as Buzzwood ran very close in the dewhurst yet is 100-1 for this tomorrow and Frankie wont have got it majorlywrong in his choice as he keeps faith with the 3rd in the racingpost trophey, I agree the dewhurst usually is a proper test for a 2yo and should be followed, but I think last years dewhurst was a poor affair and O'Brien used it as his own little trail to see if it brought anything out of his youngsters. SNA was always the number 1 there. O'Brien had 3 of the first 4 home in the dewhurst, think Johnny knows what he has underneath him and what he can beat with his mount. I discounnted the Dewhurst form & wouldnt suprise me if the first 3 home was the racingpost trophey first 3.

Craven had aload of trees in the race hence why EP was 10/11 to land the race and truly obliged, his action does suggest that a real top of the ground race where the horse needs to be balanced can cause a problem, however there has been rain this week and quite heavy at times, mainly dry though and the large open space with the wind will mean it wont be soft, but It certainly wont be rattling fast and EP backers shouldnt worry to much about the action tomorrow,the draw and race position is something that would concern me, however by the time EP can get into position SNA will have flown like Gorgoeus George had and taken a few lengths out of the field, Time of Craven wasnt brilliant, it wasnt genuine quick ground but wasnt terriable and EP had a nice tril against trees.

The mark Johnston horse could be intereasting but is likely to hang away its chances and u dont win a guineas by hanging left under pressure and he will meet pressure at some point. Red Jazz won stay, Canford Cliffs has pace to burn andwill tackle the july cup imo. The french horse dont know anything about!!!!!!!!!!

The Fav if he has trainned on, could have one of the easiest guineas field to conquor in the last 10yrs it looks like

knavesmire007 30 Apr 23:32


everone watch its last run in the craven and watch its suspect action.

This so called suspect action is similar to that of a stupidly powerfull motorbike under acceleration, the back end is going so fast the front can hardly stay on the ground.

As for the chap who says "he doesnt get it done quick enough" i sincerely hope that was tongue in cheek.

All in.

See - back end and front end- propper horseman me

My bet will be Fencing Master each way.Has the right credentials.

Coolmore invest heavily...they need to win these races,whatever it takes ;)

You copying me now?

just cos i knar.

It doesnt matter cos Brian Meehans black and white army will win the 4 o clock .

Hey george....ran big race in the 2 year old 2000 guineas...and has AOB as his trainer..its a great bet.

knavesmire007 01 May 00:08
Cross out every colt not trained by godolphin,AOB or Stoute....thats for starters.

ridiculous statement!! al zir wont reverse form with EP and if he can, then theres no reason EP camt on nich abbey!!stoute doesnt even have a runner and godolphin arent exactly raking in the classics over the last few years!!open race, many with chances!!

Fencing might play the rockofgibraltar role and the fave the hawk wing role and re enact the great guineas of about 7 years ago.

Hes a pro tho ilwab ;)

8 years ago :_|

8 years ago...seems like yesterday.I bet the rock that day.

fav solid for me
too short to back heavily
too good to oppose
7lb well in on timeform

8 yrs ago i was only 6

Dont let the price of St Nicholas Abbey put u guys off, if u fancy it, try to obtain the best price, if you watch the RP trophy run again, just watch how quickly the race is settled, now u Might think EP has adapted a turn of foot, but turn of foots can be beause the field wasnt travelling as quick and to my eye EP briefly took longer then I would have expected to quicken in the craven, SNA did quicken and did it in emphatic style and given the level of the 2yo form last season SNA is way out in front, reason y people will go agst it is more down to greed because of the price, it does look short because of the fact it is a group 1 AND u expect them to be competitive, yet the reality is that this wont be the strongest 3yo race over a mile this season not by a distance.

in short SNA quickened and settled the best 2yo race last season in a matter of seconds, trainned on confirms form and I wouldnt be suprised if he touched odds on tomorow,, its like having a group horse in a handicap, like denman in the Hennessy!!!

Good luck Tony, he looked brilliant at Doncaster that's for certain but I ain't got an ante post price, and each to their own and all that but I'd rather have my testes removed with a pair of pliers than back one at just over evens to win the Guineas first time out.

Fencing Master lost ground at the start in the dewhurst,ran like a real amateur,gave them 5 lengths startr.Should improve a lot for that run .

i like fencing master myself and if hes fit enough to do himself justice, he has a nice draw, id say he'll sit close to the pace and may just have the progress in him to beat this lot!!RP trophy does look strong and of course nich has a favourites chance but the fact is his pedigree is against him and will be facing ground he has never run on before !!yes he may even improve for the better ground, but what if he DOESNT?if youre willing to take the price then good for u, hope he runs well well but i'll oppose!i also felt his beresford was his least impressive run to date and that was on good (i think)!!wasnt asked much granted but wasnt cantering either!!he's very beatable tomorrow imo!!

Fencing master was an amateurin the dewhurst.lost many lengths early and had to make up the ground.
He shud improve a lot on that.

look where it was after 2 furlongs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl2_dyvxLdw

St Nicholas Abbey got out of jail in the beresford stakes as he was coltish and still learning his game and wouldnt be the first horse to have trouble overcoming a keyed up mark Johnston battler before getting on top and then finishing of his race in comfortable fashion, the form of that race is solid as well as the 2nd ran well for a long way in a group 1 before not stayin the trip and the 3rd who was a eye catcher staying on well in the beresford went on to land the Criterium De Saint-cloud by 6L and is highly thought off by the boys in blue. The runner up in that race ran well in the Ballysax stakes race and wasnt disgraced and sent off at 11/10 for the group 3 race. Bookies are using that as strong form imo. It wasnt a weak Beresford and SNA won it well enough on good ground imo.

Dont see it being Good to firm tomorrow

Looked more outpaced fencing master imo, looks a Derby horse and culd well continue the trend off runner ups staying on behind the clear cut winner and landing the epsom show piece

SNA action and jus watched the Beresford form again and once the jock had got his head he settled it, the ground if quick will suit him,it was a easy win

looked green to me as it did to its jockey Colm O'd

is this thread still goin. :0 a lot of opinions.but there can only be one winner.u decide.

i have 125 on elusive pimpernel to be placed. it will get the trip . it has trained on . it should get a clear run. i am happy with a hungry jock instead of frank for instance.funny action but the bit of juice in the ground should help. last time i had such a big bet on the place market was katchit in the champion hurdle and he won it at 10/1. i did not have a bean on him in the win market. same here with elusive .can see him placing but not winning

Nice e/w but no chance of reversing form with the favourite.

Favourite too powerful turn of foot.

Why is Sir Michael not having a runner? Either his best 3yo miler is not ready or he knows that nothing can threaten St Nick.

the latter

only worry with EP is if it hits a flat spot mid race. think fav will **** in , but this one could stay on at end

Big fan but cant see how it beats the fav