Dharma.....

I wasn't defending it toronto - you have got the wrong idea. The point I was making is that you cant accuse people of **ing on a public forum with no physical evidence, as it opens up a whole can of legal worms. That's all. My own personal opinion is as I always say - you know who is riding BEFORE the race, and YOU make the choice about whether to bet or not - that's surely the critical thing about it, is it not???

Which ride you lads talking about?? franks in the 2 30?

That was aweful. Not only that it zoomed out from 3 to 6 and they hadnt gone a furlong.

That was a shocking ride also.....

OK i agree you have to bet with the expectation that there is considerable corruption in the sport.My point is rather than question punters for backing it.Why does no one in the media or the racing authorities question or even look at the really obvious cases.If you can go back and look again and compare the 2 jockeys.

Nobody is disputing the fact toronto it was a poor poor finish , but your never goin to avoid it 100% , best you can do is cut the risk by who you back ,
will never be clear waters , one out one in

I personally think that from a legal perspective, it is impossible to prove, purely from a riding perspective. This is because jockeys can just ride a really sh1t race, what's more they do, every day of the week. However, the fact of the matter is that the only way you can prove that they are corrupt is to find a paper trail of lays on those particular rides. Racing doesn't have the resources to be able to achieve this, because the cost involved is astronomical.

The question is, is it a corrupt ride, or is it just a sh1t ride??? You can have an opinion, but without hard, legally upstanding facts, it can only ever be an opinion.

My other personal opinion (from my own experience) is that being bitter about jockeys and rides is an absolute source of negative energy which makes picking winners really difficult.

Dharma is life coach material

Funny you should say that hello, I am a qualified life coach. :-)

I'll be watching Frank closely here as his mounts drifts from 5.9 to 8.+ in the last 2 mins

The sport is getting more and more corrupt and apart from the obvious culprits, as in this case.It is becoming almost the norm by even connections that would have been above suspicion before .At the moment it is a case of whether you want to take the free money available or not.As no one in the media or racing authorities say anything or do anything.You could say you would be stupid not to take large amounts of risk free money if offered to you.If no one says or does anything about even the most obvious cases.Betting on racing, will soon be like betting on a wrestling bout where the result is organised in the dressing room before the bout.Then we might as well all go to bet on the cartoon racing.

lot to be said for it dharma , stay away from that coffee aswell , negative energy.
always smile and say hello also :-)

hmmmmmm

Dharma at least ther should be some effort to stop corruption.How about every race reveiwed by a well paid(by getting rid of most of the do nothing gravy train riders)professional jockey working with an equally well paid exchange and betting expert.Also racing insisting on having a betfair employee on this team supplying necessary information.Then using whatever legal measures to really clamp down on offenders with life bans.Even calling blatant **ing something like "insufficient effort"where proof is difficult and having very lengthy bans for it.Would not stop it but at least you are providing some deterent.

Agree you have to try to be positive but somtimes you have to take your nose out of the roses and see life as it really is.Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing.

toronto - what you are talking about has been happening since horse racing began. The only difference now is that the general public can see the drift and the lay happening before their eyes. When I first owned a few horses it was possible (and quite easy) to get ring bookmakers to lay a horse on your behalf - no-one then would have been any the wiser.

evening dharma

hows it going elise? Having a good time at present?

bad start to the week, dropped a couple of k yesterday, just about got it back but been up and down

how's your luck?

I hate to say it, but pretty amazing. Just waiting for the catastrophe!! Laid the 1/8 chance McCoy was riding that fell - took 10K out of that, then a few days later laid Synthe Davis to win 5k - it fell at the last!! Long may it continue....

To see nothing is to perceive the Way, and to understand nothing is to know the Dharma, because seeing is neither seeing nor not seeing and because understanding is neither understanding nor not understanding.
Bodhidharma

fair play wd, i could do with one of those myself today

thanks for that started - reminds me of my monk days.

Dharma suprised you think there was as much corruption before exchanges as now.Ofcourse there has always been corruption pre exchanges but it was very difficult to lay a horse.It was more about getting a horse ready for a gamble.By getting its weight down and hidding its ability.If you knew a bookmaker to lay i doubt you would have got too much.Also you are taking a big risk by working with someone you do not know you can trust or keep his mouth shut.One wrong word and your career in those days would be over.

Now its easy to set up say your wifes cousin.Most of the time you would not even need to tell the jockey to leave it out the back and run it into the back of a couple horses.Just undertrain it,feed it wrong or use untraceable medication.Even when its drastically overdone and a horse runs a stone below form last and wins next time out with the money down.No one in the industry says or does anything.Free risk free money with no policing why would most not take it?

Toronto, following your argument then, to get a horse laid out for a gamble in the older days, you often had to run it badly, at least once but usually more than once. This was, in a sense, laying your horse - not to make money, but to improve its chance of winning when you wanted it to.

At least nowadays there is relative transparecy in as much as the exchanges often highlight many of the potential under achievers pre off. Exchanges also give you information about many of the newcomers and their expected ability withouth having to get your binocs out on the gallops

Swings and roundabouts for me

A few weeks ago got a call from within a stable 10 mins before the off "it's not winning now owners couldn't get what they wanted, can you cover my 2K this morning and lay it , and help yourself" .
Layed it , watched it drift from about 2-1 to 5-1 so not just me. Then watched aghast as it flew out played catch me if you can and hosed in. Turns out in the paddock when the owners said their bit the trainer in question told them where to stick it, not putting his license on the line because they couldn't get the price they wanted. "It came here to win , it wins !" .
They're not all bad , though the owners obviously believed that's how it should work . I was looked after by the some of the callers winnings , wish he hadn't taken the price though !