Graham Cunningham on Oddschecker chat

Yifter - broke poorly, under pressure early, ridden along, lost place on bend, ran on for pressure, veered and ran off course into stables; last seen being driven home in the back with his goat.

Are you the Ice Cream Man on ATR Joshuag?....this is a highly coordinated publicity stunt designed to recruit new customers to BetParasite.com..........

Good tipping lines have tipsters who are known and indeed communictae with their clients, more than you will get from Aviva. Listen guys I know 4 or 5 very good lines who make good profits for their clients. If you dont need them then I am happy for you but if you are not making it pay and have perhaps fallen foul of poor lines then you really need to blame yourself for not taking due care to scrutinize them. The previous poster summed up part of the problem. Graham made a 3pt loss this month ... BIG DEAL. To him however it was the sign of a scurrulous line, to me it was a sign of how little he understands profitable long term betting.

Interesting I seem to have ended up defending Mr Cunnigham on this on issue

If your site is so good why not name it ,

If your site is so good why not name it

If your site is so good why not name it

If your site is so good why not name it etc

http://www.smartersig.com/wizpurchdet.php

Good tipping lines have tipsters who are known and indeed communictae with their clients, more than you will get from Aviva.

Thanks for that tip Josh.....could you possiby communicate your sites name for us?

joshuag gave Muffin Man sh!tloads of grief!

Are you the one and only ...newmarket wizard

and are you a real wizard with a wand and massive sleeves with bright yellow stars

Yifter hasn't sold himself down the river by writing articles for bookie websites or for exchanges with the sole intent of keeping problem gamblers betting, unlike some, or appearing as the BF rep at the Breeders Cup.

Ah, the twists and turns of cyberspace.

Joshua--if you take the time to look at my previous posts you will see I detail all of Grahams results since he started and the bottom line is he is losing his clients money.As for not understanding gambling I HAVE BEEN GAMBLING for 40 years and a bookmaker for 15 years and apart from ISIRIS at his peak a few years ago every other tipster, imo, has been a scam merchant.Its common sense really, the really successful punters whether from inside info or hard work in the form book do not want to give out tips in the old days their problem was finding bookmakers to lay them but with the exchanges they can now get on all the money they want

Newboy

If only that were true, you cannot get on as much as you want here on the exchange and the successful tipsters have grown tired of running around after prices so they prefer to have clients do it their behalf. The clients are happy because thay are receiving profitable information. As I said I know a number of profitable services, not just my own. Its a case of researching them thoroughly first and also having the strength to go with them through the good months and the bad. Poor punters usually have trouble on both accounts which is why they often struggle with tipsters.

I dont know how much you want on but I WOULD BE AMAZED if you could not get on here I think you are another scam merchant since you do not have the courage to declare your name

cracking thread as ever

If I was to name my service you would be quick to call me a scam merchant but when I decline to publicise it I am still a scam merchant ... interesting logic

"I don't pretend to be the biggest punter around. Nor do I claim to knock the ball out of the park with a string of big priced winners week in week out. What I do feel confident about is my ability to give a new edge to punters who prefer to build their banks steadily rather than adopt the boom and bust mentality which goes with some tipping services. Graham Cunningham

Graham, since you are advising others to invest their money,dont you think you should do them the courtesy of advising how much money you are betting,if indeed you do back your own tips

You are so easily deflected from the main issues, if we start a thread talking about the bed fellows of bookmakers and meida you are easily deflected onto tipsters or arbers or anything that allows bookmakers off the hook. This suits our bookie friends because they go to great trouble suppressing thei publicisinhg of their activities.

Joshua, I have, on numerous occasions, given you the opportunity to come clean,all you have done is post a lot of figures plucked from godknowswhere others can draw their own conclusions but I will not waste any more time on you

You are correct the figures could have come from anywhere, so do as I suggest and buy the secretbettingclub's May newsletter. You can then use their impartial assessment on not just me but a host of others

waste of time , obviously in line with other tipping sites regarding profit ...or loss as is the usual scenario

tells you all you wish to know regarding tipsters when they are afraid to reveal themselves :-)

To be fair to Graham Cunningham, someone did mention bookmaker restriction and the role of the media in last week's Sporting Life 'chat', and he told it like it is, and said that he can't get his own bets on.

Even so, let's not pretend that the majority of those who work in the media currently aren't anything other than a bunch of gutless, freeloading, self-serving, indolent, integrity-lite puppets when it comes to telling the truth about their bookmaking industry pals...

thesecretbettingclub psml

what a beautiful scam , before you pay a tipster , pay to find out who the tipster is ....

Dear Friend, The Secret Betting Club is here to help change your life by finally enabling you to both make and save money betting.

That's right, YOU can MAKE MONEY BETTING and through the information available here we show you how easy it is to do this.

PMSL!

Todays chat was advertised by a well used odds comparism site, it may have been hosted by someone else I am not sure. We have to relaise that the said comparism site runs its business fore the benefit of bookmakers. Why else do they keep their daily Betfair rpice updates 10 or 15 minutes out of date when virtual real time update are simplicity itself.

I may or may not have been harsh on Graham by associtaing him with the service but he did himself no favours by stating that he does not feel any empathy with the cause of punters. This is short sighted as the cause of fellow punters is not only your own personal cause but also the future of raciing. Imagine being told or finding out that if you get 3 numjkbers up on the lottery this week you will be banned from future plays.

And you have been spamming a site that says it is easy to make money from gambling

Joshua, it must be pretty obvious to anyone now that the media and the bookmaking industry are business partners, with the sole objective of doing whatever is necessary to assist each other in removing our money.

Even more obscene, is that in the above sentence, you could substitute 'the media' for the BHA.

Punters desperately need to stand up and be counted. We need to create a formal platform to represent us all - to fight our corner in every area of this industry.

No one, repeat no one, is going to do it for us - as far as every last sector of this industry is concerned, our role is simply to be deceived, exploited and shafted....

As far as i'm aware no tipping line offers a refund if at the end of 6 months if the punter loses.

As for the complete barmy logic - "i er, i er cant get on,so i er sell my tips" well we all know this is twadlle - the bf market does not differentiate from 20 £200 bets or on somebody feeding a £4000 bet.

As for the bookmakers,its farcical to think that 20 people all asking for a couple hundred on a tip within a few mins of the tip going up,don't connect them.In my experience succesful punters "pay" peole to put bets on for them,they certainly don't sell tips.

The Gambling Commision should insist that everybody who subscribers to a tipping line/site has their details passed on to a counciling service.These are likely to be sad desperate punters who need help.

My advice is if your that desperate,stop gambling on horses,its not for you.


Hope that helps.

"Why else do they keep their daily Betfair rpice updates 10 or 15 minutes out of date when virtual real time update are simplicity itself."

Easy money here, then. Start up a similar site that actually DOES live Betfair prices. Surely you can make a buck at that? Simplicity itself indicates that you can code such a site - which I very much doubt.

If you could, SmarterSig's wouldn't look like a child made it, because you would have sold them a new design by now.

Moral: Don't comment on something you know nothing about.

Retrostar, I have automatic bet placement software written by myself which is integrated with market analysis software as well, bots in other words. Programming is something I know a little about.

It could be said you know a little about a lot, and a lot about nothing.

I have no sympathy for Graham but he is no different from Big Mac in that he is looking to be labelled as a a punters pal but it's the books who pay the most.
What he has had out of his tipping site is almost certainly ablsolute buttons to what he gets off various betting organisations.

Big Mac used to appear on ATR**ging off exchanges every other sentence simply because they owned ATR. Where do you think Cunningham would draw the line in taking appearance money off bookmakers?

He is the Nick Clegg of pundits, just not as popular obviously;)

That was quite a entertaining read.............

Agree with Zilzal.

I agree with jonjo.... Ye follow.......

Graham Cunnigham is also a tipping voice that is piped into Joe C shops. Given the efforts these shops make to ban winning punters one has to ask whether they would pipe into their shop advice from a seriously dangerous punter. Lets ask these shops if they would care to pipe in the live selections of Hugh Taylor or Tom Segal before publication anywhere else.If you are asked to carry out such a job you must come to the conclusion that you are being selected because you offer very little danger to the bookmaker. Yes you will get paid by the bookmaker but I can not think of a more damming endorsement than to be approached by a bookmaker and offered a job tipping thier customers. Its rather like the RP wheeling out the chief spokesman of a bookmaker, as they often do, for their opinion on the big up and coming race. I can tell you in all honesty that every time I switch on or read the media I worry about whether its contributors will echo the ideas I employ or hold the type of conversation me and my contemporarires have, but I need not worry as inevitably it is filled with the same kind of stuff that anchors you and me to loss making in our early betting days. The exceptions to this seem to have been skillfully moved out of harms way

You clearly have quite a big tip for yourself, joshuag.

Bottom line is that almost all of these people who charge for tipping lines are no different than the vast majority of us in that they cannot make a living out of betting. More fool anyone who pays them money.

Yes and your job is to find the ones that do not fall into the "almost all" Seeking them out is not that difficult but does require a little effort. Not everyone has the time, aptitude or insight to make it pay, your opinion confides them to a life of losing money to bookmakers which is why I suspect that some of the virilous anti tipster members are really bookmaker agents.

Whatever happens, the bookies are not going to lay big winners heavily. Regardless of whether it is exposed in the media or not. Why take on a fight that you cannot win ? It's in nobody's interest for bookies to lay consistent winners, apart form the individual. I realise it is galling that you see prices that you cannot take, offers that you cannot make use of but that is part and parcel of being a successful punter I'm afraid.

your job is to find the ones that do not fall into the "almost all"

I don't want to find them. Most of us lose mainly because we go on the odd mad chase, particularly after a good run were we cannot just batten down the hatches and accept the losing streaks.If you there that successful you would carry on alone instead of seeking payments from the gullible to fund your shortcomings. And I very much doubt that your knowledge of the sport is any better than many on here.

My Name is Bond.............

LOL Zilzal

Bond just tex me and sayed WALOS imo !

All i want is a **ing accurate going report and a stick reading after the last race actually!!!!

When I say 'you' Verbotone I mean the general public not you specifically. When people say that tipsters would simply bet for themselves if they were really successful I know immediatly that they do not understand what go's on for the profitable bettor. They have this rose tinted idea that if you can make it pay its simply a job of waltzing donw to the local Fred and placing the daily bets and collecting or likewise on here. Eeventually the only alternative is to get 100 clients putting £20 quid on for you

Why can't they bet on hear, joshuag?

You appear to be implying that the only way you can win is by betting on filthy each way races...

They have this rose tinted idea that if you can make it pay its simply a job of waltzing donw to the local Fred and placing the daily bets and collecting or likewise on here

No I thought you'd get on, on course, or on here. If your point was simply to demonstrate how the high st firms operate and how difficult it is to get a bet on at advertised odds, that would be a worthy one. However,that fact that this appears to be the opening gambit in promoting your own service
will make you no different than the many other spammers on here down the years..

GC seems a nice chap to me and doesn't deserve**ging off, however much you have tried to justify your comments and "defend" him on this thread. If work comes his way, do you think he should turn it down? This is nothing more than an excuse for some trumpet blowing, interspersed with "educational nuggets" from the self proclaimed master. Not all punters are daft, let it drop and carry on your impeccably run service - you need the opposition to be sub-standard FFS.

If work comes his way, do you think he should turn it down?


If a journalist in this industry chooses to take money to work for the bookmakers, how then, can he possibly claim to have any professional impartiality or integrity.

These companies have just one objective - to get the money of the people these journalists are supposed to represent....

Since when have journalists been ambassadors for the common man??

:^0

You mean unlike the ones who exposed Aitken, Archer, the MP's expenses, etc etc Diamond...?

Sorry if the previous post gets in the way of the freeloading though, obviously...

I have tried hard to divert this thread off tipping lines (read earlier messages) but a few keep coming back with**ging off all tipping lines. OK lets all agree to now drop the tipping line debate and get back to the original issue which was how the bookmakers control the media and how some individuals have no moral integrity about the work they do. Personally I could not work for a bookmaker or particiapte in a bookmaker controlled activity such as a carefully monitored chat show and hold my head up. Mr Cunnigham and others say they deplore bookmaker activities but there is an almost complete absence of comment about it in the media. On here it crops up time and time again and yet in the mass media .. virtually zilch, coincidence ?.

Why should we bother as some say, well bookmakers hate publicity around these activities. The one thing you can do is bring it to the publics attention. Believe me the vast majority are astounded that this go's on, they are genuinely shocked.

joshuag, well said, I would like exposed the methods the bookies use to check accounts out even before the account holder has had a bet. And I don't just mean over 18 checks.

Which Journalist outed Jeffrey Archer then?
The Daily Star was brought to court for libel but cant remember papers outting him. Papers published his trials and tribulations, many of which were in the public domain before the papers published them.

Its all down to the individual millhouse,there is no general rule as to whats acceptable behaviour in return for financial gain,whats legal and what some would consider moral are two different things.

Zebadi
Nor is it illegal to have an advert on C4 TV this afternoon saying "keep backing those winners and we will keep giving you free bets" whenn in actual fact if you have a habit of backing winners you will be banned from betting. What is moral is a matter of opinion but then again is it morally right to alter race betting immedialy when a NR has an adverse effect on the bookmaker race shape but take 45 minutes when it has a favourable affect. We have all got endless lists of bookmaker tricks that are legal but certainly underhanded. Of course the successful punters crime is that he simply walks into a shop and places a bet at a price freely advertised within the shop. Imagine Habitat banning you because you only buy from them when a sale is on.

I thought that ad was banned?

Diamond, Zebadei, what worries me is that in the future, no journalist who wants to do their job with integrity or honesty, or who wants to seek to expose the truth or campaign for the people he represents, will ever enter into this industry.

Free thinking, questioning the establishment, or failing to actively deceive the people you are writing or broadcasting for when it comes to the bookmaking industry, is now little short of professional suicide.

Part of the reason I keep rattling on about punters setting up a formal body to represent us, is because I believe it will enable the journalists in this industry who do want to do their job properly to actually report the truth (reporting the activities of a punters association fighting for punters rights is very different to questioning these issues yourself)

If things carry on as they are, the only future journalists who will want to work in this industry for very long are ones who see the media gravy train as a genuine career option, in my opinion...

Do you have a tipping service for sofas too Joshuag? It's not exactly the same thing now is it. I would get fed up if people came in every week and ran their fingers over my furniture without buying and only went to the checkout when they spotted a wrong price label.

Having said that, I recognise that the bookmakers restricting of accounts is completely out of order. Its naive to not expect punters to shop around and take best price now and the majority are far from serial arbers. A serial arber backs one in the Whitbread Gold Cup and one in a Southwell seller. This aspect seems to be overlooked despite the bookmakers themselves pouring money into advertising on odds comparison products.

Millhouse
A punters association is a huge undertaking, a full time job. One initial possibility is to organise a protest at a high profile televised race meeting. Nothing too controversial, maybe simply issue all participants with a T shirt to wear and a slogan and then twist Mac's arm for an interview

millhouse, in who's interest is it for the books to lay mathematically poor ew bets or consistent winners heavily?

Why don't you actually do something about this issue, millhouse, rather than just rattling on about it endlessly on here? If I was as passionate about an issue as you clearly are about this, i would have done something about it by now...

The mole, I would if I thought there would be some support for it...

Chompy just tex me and sayed in who is interest Cider ?!

Mole, its a long olde haul, believe me.............

The Arbing argument is a smokescreen, a illusory baseball bat used to convince losing punters and shop staff that the banning of punters is morally right as the banned culpits have this dreaded arbing disease. It happens but it is exagerrated and lets not forget that bookies invented it and still arb the markets themselves

Cider

forget the filthy EW angle, we are not generally talking about EW scalpers and certainly I had over 3,000 bets last year and every one was on the nose to win

So presumably you have taken the better prices on here then?

No need for bookies...

Millhouse is spot on as usual. Unfortunately a formal body to represent punters has been mooted for years but has never come close to materialising. IBAS could have taken on this mantle but are evidently more in allegiance with bookmakers than punters. I seem to remember the great hope was when Jim (Timeform) McGrath got his place on the board of the BHA and how everyone thought he would champion the punter. The reality imo is that never has any individual within racing been so guilty of selling out to the gravy train, instead of using his knowledge and influence in horse racing to gain a better deal for punters in the UK he sits silently, shame on him!

Il help you millhouse.

mike grimwood.

As a matter of interest, what, in your view, would be acceptable platforms on which a racing journalist/broadcaster could ply his trade?

If writing/broadcasting directly for a bookmaker or betting exchange, writing in the trade paper and broadcasting on either of the dedicated racing channels is unacceptable (and they are arguably all "tainted" directly or by association with vested betting interests) it does not leave a lot for someone whose profession is a racing journalist/broadcaster.

I did not follow the Oddschecker live chat, but it seems to me that Graham Cunningham has always managed to act with integrity despite things being as they are.

millhouse thats just the way it is now,its basically a gravy trough,the amount of gravy you can go for is more or less down to an individuals moral code whilst remaing within the law.

forget the filthy EW angle, we are not generally talking about EW scalpers and certainly I had over 3,000 bets last year and every one was on the nose to win

Not doing a bad job of getting on then I though only losers got layed !

*thought

Despite all the subsequent posts from you Joshuag, the fact remains that you posted a thread clearly designed to generate negative publicity for Graham Cunningham.

He happens to run a tipping line.

You also run a tipping line.

The motivation for your original post is pretty obvious.

You don't need to add any more posts to this thread.

You've been found out. Time to call it a day on the thread-posting front I reckon.

Milligramone

Its about working for these outlets but reporting responsibly and with balance. Let me give you an example. Twelve months ago AD of the Racing Post wrote a full spread article which effectively endorsed and promoted FOBTs and virtual racing. He did not even have the decency to tell the readers that they would lose x% on these outlets. Instead he told them he had made 30 quid on the day. Now try asking AD or any other writer to write a report on the extent to which bookmakers bar punters from shops and online/phone accounts. In fact they did a peice on telephone betting. The lady who did the article and the visit never asked about closures.

Scutler, we have agree to drop the tipping line debate see eralie post

Nobody seems to be able to answer my question.

Why would anyone want people taking lots of cash out out the industry tax free...

Its about working for these outlets but reporting responsibly and with balance.

It seems to me that almost sums up Graham Cunningham's contribution over the years (as I said, I did not follow the latest broadcast). He is - thankfully - no Alastair Down.

joshuag


Self promoting, self serving, self important pompous nonsense.

Cider, these companies make millions upon millions of pounds a year - refusing to take bets from people that don't lose is about pure greed, nothing else.

If these government licensed companies want to operate in this way disgraceful way, then that's their choice.

But let's let everyone know that winning is not actually allowed, that if you do place bets and win you won't be able to bet in the future, that unless you lose your money you will be treated with total contempt.

These aren't companies that 'take on the punters', lay bets without discriminating or treat everyone fairly, as the paid for media propaganda seeks to perpetuate.

They are thoroughly disingenuous, totally fraudulent, absolutely manipulative organisations that actively discriminate against people whose only crime is to achieve the only possible objective of betting in the first place - all of which happens while their media business partners seek to deceive the people they write or broadcast for that the absolute opposite is the case...

Re. your question Cider.
If punters do not hold onto the illusion that they can take a load of money out of the industry tax free, then they will simply cease to bet.
The fact that the industry, ie: corporate off-course bookmakers, bha, some CoC''s, make it almost impossible to for a punter to win as a continued source of income, gradually *****away at that illusion with the public / punter.
If the off-course conglomerates practices were exposed, both historically and currently, then betting would collapse.

Agree with Freetea entirely

So we should all conspire to keep the bookmakers in profit, keep the BHA in operation, keep the prize money in place for owners, keep jobs in the press for fellow conspiritors. Yes lets all lie down and know our place in life. While we are at it didn't the bankers recently have a hard time of it, well lets help them out financially, Oh I forget we already did that ... Doh!

If you don't like them, then don't bet with them.

Not hard is it?

I don't bet with bookmakers,

it's not very hard.

If the off-course conglomerates practices were exposed, both historically and currently, then betting would collapse.

That's part of my point, betting is the lifeblood of the racing industry, why would anyone support something that may bring it to its knees?

I don't disagree with any of those points, millhouse, but it doesn't answer my question.

The betting industry doesn't want winning punters, but nor does the BHA, the racing industry, the government or anyone else involved.

Then the dream will eventually die, the usual solution to everything seems to be overkill, you only have to look at the size of the lottery payouts since they seem to have a draw every day to realise that.

Something will have to give soon, probably a few racecourses

Agreed Cider.
Which kinds of explains a large part of the appeal for me.
However, if betmaverick and other more obvious targets want to take the rotten shilling, then good luck to them, tho' I respect them not.

'Winning' punters will never ever be able to bet with impunity at the books, whatever happens.
I don't know why some people think those who have decent lifestyles working on the periphery of the industry are going to martyr themselves in a cause for something that is never, ever going to happen.

zilzal1 24 Apr 12:22

'Something will have to give soon, probably a few racecourses'

Zil - wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing imo...

Point being missed is that the Bookmakers built their empires on horseracings shoulders, they are now promoting other products above the sport.

im not interested in who wins etc, but the perception that you can must be there, otherwise there will be even more of a drift away. In a far more open society and 24 hour news, internet, etc, news travels fast, the outside public have indentified racing with being insular and secretive,Horseracings rulers have not served the sport well over the years

Let's be perfectly honest - most recreational punters don't think they have a hope in hell of "beating the odds" on a long term basis, but they do think they have a chance of landing a win on a day to day basis. Bookmakers serve their needs and both parties are happy.

It is easy to overestimate the importance/relevance of semi or professional punters. No-one bar these punters gives a toss about whether they win or how easy it is for them to get on - and rightly so. Net winners serve no purpose to anyone bar themselves.

I agree with that MVA which is why the absolute skanking of the once a year punters on the GN is a much more worthy cause to shout about, imo.

Mr Angry

That state of affairs only exists because losing punters have been conditioned over the years to expect little from their betting. This topic is not just about 'getting on' but the whole package of dishonesty that percolates through bookmaking and into the media. Most punters are kept in a state of stupidity by the media in order to maintain this lucrative gravy train.

Mr Very Angry is both angry and correct I believe

No joshuag - this situation exists because gambling is a business. In general terms in gambling you are buying a chance to win on a one-off basis, but you pay a small premium in terms of value from the betting operator for that privilege. That is how this industry, which brings in millions of pounds of revenue, works

We all know that there are ways of turning this situation around so that we as punters are getting the value - but don't expect any huge crusade from anyone (journalists, ruling bodies etc) to fundamentally change the basic realities.

It would be akin to a wine journalist showing outrage that supermarket customers are being asked to pay more for a bottle of wine than the supermarket paid their supplier.

"brings in millions of pounds of revenue"

I dont know if its your intention Angry but please dont try to convince me with the idea that taking advantage of the gullible public amounts to some soprt of social just due to the revenue it brings in. No one is asking journalists to mount a crusade on behalf of punters, all we are asking is dont do the opposite ie- keep totally quite about the imjustices that take place or as in AD's case promote an avenue of betting that is doomed to failure and totally destructive. No one gets a big payoff from FOBTs. The wine analogy doesn't stand for me. We expect a premium to be paid its in the overropund and the profits bookmakers make after deducting losses to winning punters

Mr.Angry i would go further and say that recreational punters are frightened to death of winning on a regular basis. They dont want the pressure of taking it seriously.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Just telling you how it is.