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cryoftruth
04 Mar 21 20:25
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Date Joined: 22 Mar 04
| Topic/replies: 6,471 | Blogger: cryoftruth's blog
It’s an amazingly stupid thing Gordon did.

But he did not harm a horse, fail to look after a horse properly, get caught doping horses, running a non trier, get found cheating, running a ringer, or cheating his owners.

I think everyone should get the benefit of another chance once at least.

I think too much hysteria is around and that the extraordinary publicity racing has generated by the huge hysterical outbursts about this has been self inflicted folly.

Gordon Elliot was almost a boy wonder as a trainer; from nothing he built a winner making machine and he has already seen many horses taken away in trucks. His mistake has already caused him massive harm, major humiliation, and massive grief, and not just to him but his stable staff. Not sure that he should get more than a very big fine now myself.

The clamour for blood and life long bans is pretty unedifying.
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Report Figgis March 4, 2021 11:15 PM GMT
the extraordinary publicity racing has generated by the huge hysterical outbursts about this has been self inflicted folly

COT, do you believe the racing industry would've done itself a favour by responding what's the big deal?

His mistake has already caused him massive harm

Regardless of any personal opinion on such fckwit behaviour from a man around the age of 40. Wouldn't you say that he has also caused massive harm to racing's image? And that people in the industry are perfectly entitled to feel pissed off about his "stupid thing" tarnishing their reputations?

The next time there is an inevitable equine death at Cheltenham or Aintree and the pundits say to the public that nobody will be feeling it more than those connected with the horse, don't you think this makes a mockery of that?

The sport requires new blood to keep it going when we're long gone. The world has changed since you and I got into racing. When young potential fans are thinking of getting onboard but have questions about the ethics of racing animals for pleasure, don't you think this sort of incident is not exactly selling it to them?
Report Facts March 5, 2021 8:18 AM GMT
Anyone questioning the ethics of racing animals for pleasure, need to understand you can't make a horse run /jump if it doesn't want to.
Report Figgis March 5, 2021 12:36 PM GMT
Utter bullshit.
Report Facts March 5, 2021 12:57 PM GMT
Do elaborate
Report Figgis March 5, 2021 1:08 PM GMT
Shouldn't really need explaining to anyone with any sense. Most animals, including human beings, can be conditioned into doing something they don't really want to. This can just be mild cajoling, or sometimes extend to being coerced, bullied, or even tortured. We see an example of the cajoling every day on a racecourse when getting them into starting stalls. The argument that these horses are all running through the pain barrier of their own free will is a cretinous one. Jesus Christ, next we'll be hearing Descartes was right.
Report cryoftruth March 5, 2021 2:22 PM GMT
I think disciplinary codes have been broken and he will be undoubtedly be held accountable for what he did. That is fair and proper.

What I dislike is that there seems to have been a queue of people screaming terrible abuse at Gordon as if he has not had enough to deal with.

How much grief has he already endured. I just think the hysterical yelling for Gordon’s blood, and for him to be banned from racing forever is over the top and not that necessary. As I say he has not actually harmed a single horse. Not one. So yes he has brought the repute of racing into disrepute and the photo and pose was shocking. But was what he did akin to someone doping a horse or someone found to be mistreating a horse.

I remember years ago at Cheltenham jockeys beating horses up the straight in bottomless going. That was cruelty. What Gordon did was daft not cruel.
Report Figgis March 5, 2021 2:52 PM GMT
COT, but in most industries anyone bringing the business into disrepute will be swiftly dismissed. This isn't just a case of a drunken young stable lad getting into a car park brawl, a black mark against the individual rather than his employment. By anybody's definition Elliott has brought the game into disrepute. Many of us don't see why Elliott should be treated any different than other disrepute cases, and find the spectacle of those rallying around to defend him equally unedifying.
Report Facts March 5, 2021 5:00 PM GMT
Figgis

Explain the reason when horses refuse to come out the stall.( Flat )
Plant their feet and refuse to start ( NH)
Stop running part way through a race and pull themselves up
Refuse to jump a hurdle or fence
Report Figgis March 5, 2021 7:36 PM GMT
So because a few refuse that equates to the others "wanting" to do it? Is that really the logic you're using on this one?
Report Facts March 5, 2021 8:20 PM GMT
Damn sight better than whatever it is you're trying to prove !
Report Figgis March 5, 2021 8:27 PM GMT
Some children fight back against being forced to do things by playground bullies, many others don't fight back. The ones that don't must've wanted it then? The argument of a bonehead.
Report cryoftruth March 6, 2021 8:19 AM GMT
The ante post racing forum I remember is much more friendly than this guys. Chill.
The sentence for Gordon seems to have struck a decent balance. It is clear that a ban was inevitable, but it’s not so serious as to have entirely wrecked the careers and jobs of Gordon and his staff.
Report Figgis March 6, 2021 12:33 PM GMT
He got off lightly. Only takes a few more unsavoury incidents followed by racing's pathetic response to police itself to chip away at the public's perception and nobody will have a career in jump racing. It's happened elsewhere.
Report harry callaghan March 6, 2021 1:23 PM GMT
I’m 100 percent with you figgis tbh...

People will argue it’s a big enough suspension and it may well be, my problem is these people may it be Byrne doping or Willie Mullins vet involved in performance enhancing drugs or Chatham street lad being capable of running a million miles an hour without doing so prior, or aiden O’Brien pulling horses from a premier meeting for contaminated feeds or 6 year old mares improving 55lbs from being exposed handicappers in Germany and now we’re sitting on dead horses in a callous action. There are others but I’d be here all day

This continuous dragging of the sport through the gutter, without warning trainers off either training race horses or being involved in the sport of horse racing continues to mock the sport.

the authorities do nothing to eradicate the problem from racing, is my problem. it is just vermin behaviour and sets a president to others thinking this is ok or condoned within the sport. It also sets a president to young people who racing wants to attract to the game either through working within the industry or taking an interest form and betting wise

Now the trainer will be back training horses by the start of the next jumps season similar to Byrne and will still be present in the yards they have committed their offences in this time period, with just another persons name on a sheet of paper and another plaque above the door for 6 months

It serves no notice to the continuous poison these people bring to the sport of horse racing and the authorities continue to not police the sport at any level or to eradicate the bad apples that bring the game into disrepute on a daily/weekly basis

This suspension serves notice to an already disrespectful society, where bad behaviour is just tolerated as normal and turned a blind eye too and this sort of behaviour is just allowed to continue without trying to eradicate the problem or stopping the bleeding it continues to bring the sport.
Report Facts March 6, 2021 1:30 PM GMT
Cot is correct the Antepost Forum is for betting enthusiasts.
Suggest you take your personal  insults to the Politics Forum ( the new Chit Chat forum )
Report Facts March 6, 2021 1:34 PM GMT
^ to Figgis
Report Figgis March 6, 2021 1:58 PM GMT
I think you'll find it was you that made the first response to my post. A response that was drivel. And you can stick your suggestion up the orifice you appear to be talking out of Wink
Report Facts March 7, 2021 1:05 AM GMT
Read my last post.
I'm referring to your personal insults.None of my posts to you contain such bile.
You on the other hand, seem to find it impossible to restrain yourself.
Report duffy March 7, 2021 4:07 AM GMT
The anti mob will be rubbing their hands, in 6 months time they can bring their placards out once more and along with the MSM will drag racing back through the mud once more.

Elliott's continued involvement, for them, is a dream come true. If racing took a stand and got rid they could have at least salvaged something and would be able to show to the world that not even those at the very top are beyond reproach when it comes to this kind of behaviour.

Who knows what's fair and more to the point who cares, I care about the continuation of the sport and the damage he's done is irreparable and has only hastened its demise.

The one big point that has stood out to me in all of this is that their are still far too many dinosaurs who just don't see the world we now inhabit, the days when racing could turn around and say that if you don't like it, don't watch it are long gone, racing has to justify itself to the average Joe and can't look down its nose at such a suggestion.

Feel sorry for him if you must but he has taken a swipe at every owner, trainer, stable lad/lass, punter, lover of the game and we will all pay for it in some way.

His continuation in the sport is a millstone around its neck and there will be any number of uncomfortable moments to come and used against racing as a consequence.

It'll be like death by a thousand cuts.
Report Figgis March 7, 2021 2:17 PM GMT
None of my posts to you contain such bile

I said the argument that horses can't be made to do things they don't want was bullshit and a bonehead argument. Bile? What a thin skin you must have.
Report impossible123 March 7, 2021 3:57 PM GMT
Morgan was already dead. Elliot did not kill him or cause Morgan pain or distress before Morgan died. As such, there was no cruelty to him, just a lack of respect and dignity not accorded. Elliot made a massive error of judgement which was extremely distasteful and sickening, and he'd profoundly accepted and apologised for; Morgan's owner accepted Elliot's apology.

We may not agree with the punishment dished out to Elliot; Morgan died on the gallop not thro a lack of care or mistreatment, but a sudden natural cause.

I'd like to see a 2nd chance accorded to Elliot. And, I'm fairly confident the racing public and racing community will pass judgement on Elliot. Only time can tell whether Elliot will be accepted back into the community he's excelled. I think we ought to grant Elliot that us being outsiders.
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