is Moore the new Spencer ?

He's certainly heading that way with these one dimensional waiting tactics.

He's certainly heading that way with these one dimensional waiting tactics.

He does seem to make the same mistakes over and over again.

There is no question the outcome of the Gold Cup was decided well before the home turn, and Moore should have made every effort to get a better position earlier in the race.
Maybe this was a race where Coolmore should have run a pacemaker or two in order to upset Big Orange?

I've read elsewhere that OOSG was simply outbattled at the finish by Big Orange. Nobody can say for sure if he was outfought or simply got tired after having to make up around 6 lengths in around 2.5 furlongs after running more than 2 miles. Even if it's true that he was outfought that still doesn't mean he wasn't given a poor ride. The pace was no more than reasonable so there was no need to have OOSG so far back rounding the turn into the straight. It's been said that if he'd battled harder at the finish then the same people criticising the ride would've ended up praising it instead. Well maybe some would but I wouldn't have been one of them. Let's say OOSG had battled harder, he still wouldn't have been able to win by much more than a neck from the position he came from. I don't see how setting your horse a more difficult task than necessary just to win by a neck constitutes a good ride when there was the possibility of winning more comfortably by adapting to the pace.

As i wrote on the other forum, Moore does try get a better position at around the 7F, but the jockey in front of him wont let him, either Moore goes very wide or he sits and plays for luck........... we know the outcome

Maybe, but even if Moore couldn't have gained ground any earlier (which personally I don't accept but will go along with), he already had OOSG about 5 wide approaching the final turn, while most of the other jockeys are riding around him Moore remains motionless when there was every opportunity to gain a more prominent position, in the event his inactivity leads to OOSG ending up in a worse position.

Always laugh when people produce the argument that "if X had won by a head we'd be calling him a genius". He lost.

A_T
Always laugh when people produce the argument that "if X had won by a head we'd be calling him a genius". He lost.

That was me.

Have to say as well that it wasn't exactly the rest of Coolmore's finest moment. They clearly had the fastest horse in the race and knew he got the trip really well, he stayed very well last year in a fast run race on rain softened ground. Their nearest rival was a 6yo who, although undoubtedly talented and tough, had proven himself more of a Gp2 animal. He certainly wouldn't have had the pace to run as well in an Arc and the extra distance was an unknown. He was also a horse who has performed best when he's had things his own way up front. As a yard that have been known to run the odd pacemaker or three you'd have thought this would've been a race crying out for a perfect set-up for the fav.

Coolmore getting things wrong? I don't believe it.

I think OOSG is a top class 12f horse they have upped to the Gold Cup because they have too many horses for this distance. They did the same with Fame and Glory whose best form was over 10f and they screwed him up.

I've had a few quid in KG at 25s after all he was 3rd in the Arc. Was a shorter price than Highland Reel and we don't yet know how good the 3 year olds are. Of course it depends what the 'boys' think.

Had every chance to go past if good enough imo

I've seen this comment a lot that the horse had every chance to go past. This suggests that as long as a horse is within reach at the finish it should go past no matter what it's been asked to do to get there and regardless of the pace that the race has been run at. I'd say those things do matter.

Exactly, Figgis, lots of punters don't seem to understand these basics. Pace and position are the two most important factors in any race.

Yea, I don't understand how to ride. That move mid race would have taken loads out of him at the finish, and potentially lit him up. He's a horse not a car.

Should have held that one up a bit more...

Had he sat closer to the winner early on he would have won comfortably. He expended most of his energy making up ground on a strong galloper setting his own comfortable pace. To suggest he wouldn't go past because he is ungenuine is nonsense in my view.

I'm not suggesting that he's ungenuine at all.

If that was the tactics from the start, maybe he would have won. But he couldn't have made that decision mid race and you can't really blame Moore for the tactics - they'd have been decided for him.

I am not referring to you and have not addressed you directly in any of my posts. I am speaking generally that many punters don't seem to understand pace and position and many seem to be saying that he had every chance to go past but he dodged it, when in fact he was just too tired. I have no doubt he is the best horse in the race.

https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/sectionals/sectional-timing-debrief-royal-ascot-2017-2562017

Some sectional analysis that confirms (what most of us could see already) that the Gold Cup was not a truly run race. I actually saw one jockey apologist say that the Gold Cup was the most strongly run race of the week, extraordinary.

OoSG has the pace to be further up the field in a sedately run 2m 4f race - he finished 3rd in last year's Arc. In a nutshell Moore rode an injudicious race, full stop, and anything else is bunkum!

A rematch in the Goodwood Cup against Big Orange over 2m in August is unlikely, I believe, as he ran in the Irish St Leger the last two years in succession. Also, if he could not go the "pace" in a 2m 5f race the shorter Goodwood Cup will not be a help either.