Horse Antepost
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At the time of writing this Colt isn't even entered in the Epsom Derby but in what appears to be a wide open year surely they will consider supplementing this horse for the upcoming classic.
The level of form and performance strike a very close resemblance to the way Monsieur Fabre prepared Pour Moi for his Derby back in 2011 and the form line through group one winning two year old Robin of Navan suggests he is definitely improving as you would expect from a colt of this breeding.
Looks a big player if they decide this is the way they want to go.
With all the uncertainty surrounding the current listings 16-1 does seem relatively fair for a horse who, if turning up, will probably go off at a much shorter price than this and increasingly so if the dante fails to throw up a worthy contender.
The level of form and performance strike a very close resemblance to the way Monsieur Fabre prepared Pour Moi for his Derby back in 2011 and the form line through group one winning two year old Robin of Navan suggests he is definitely improving as you would expect from a colt of this breeding.
Looks a big player if they decide this is the way they want to go.
With all the uncertainty surrounding the current listings 16-1 does seem relatively fair for a horse who, if turning up, will probably go off at a much shorter price than this and increasingly so if the dante fails to throw up a worthy contender.
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They'll consider it. Heck, there must be winners of Carlisle sellers who are thinking about the Derby this year, but 16/1 does not look generous given that no statement of intent has been given, and Cloth Of Stars has been hard to settle in his races.
Almost as if by magic !
Harry Dunlop's Robin Of Navan had to settle for second behind impressive winner Cloth Of Stars in the Prix Greffulhe at Saint-Cloud.
A Group One victor last year, Robin Of Navan was largely campaigned in France and is likely to do the same this year as he qualifies for owners' premiums.
Cloth Of Stars had been behind Robin Of Navan twice last year and looked set for second again when Tony Piccone kicked Dunlop's charge into the lead. However, Andre Fabre's Godolphin colt, who had the benefit of a run this season, quickened up smartly to win going away.
Fabre won the corresponding race in 2011 with Pour Moi, who went on to Derby glory at Epsom.
If Cloth Of Stars is to follow the same route he would need to be supplemented and that appeared distinctly possible after the race, although he remains in the Prix du Jockey Club picture.
RaceBets cut Cloth Of Stars to 9-1 (from 25-1) for Epsom on June 4.
John Ferguson, Godolphin's chief executive and racing manager, told www.godolphin.com: "We are absolutely delighted with today's performance from Cloth Of Stars.
"I had a word with Andre afterwards and our thinking is to go for the Epsom Derby. We will have to supplement him for the Epsom Derby which is the same weekend as the Prix du Jockey Club.
"So everything depends on how Cloth Of Stars trains between now and then (supplementary stage for Epsom is May 30 at a cost of £75,000).
"Today's victory was over a mile and a quarter but both Mickael Barzalona and Andre said the colt will be suited by a mile and half.
"Cloth Of Stars is also the kind of horse to act on the course at Epsom and improving all the time, winning going away today."
Harry Dunlop's Robin Of Navan had to settle for second behind impressive winner Cloth Of Stars in the Prix Greffulhe at Saint-Cloud.
A Group One victor last year, Robin Of Navan was largely campaigned in France and is likely to do the same this year as he qualifies for owners' premiums.
Cloth Of Stars had been behind Robin Of Navan twice last year and looked set for second again when Tony Piccone kicked Dunlop's charge into the lead. However, Andre Fabre's Godolphin colt, who had the benefit of a run this season, quickened up smartly to win going away.
Fabre won the corresponding race in 2011 with Pour Moi, who went on to Derby glory at Epsom.
If Cloth Of Stars is to follow the same route he would need to be supplemented and that appeared distinctly possible after the race, although he remains in the Prix du Jockey Club picture.
RaceBets cut Cloth Of Stars to 9-1 (from 25-1) for Epsom on June 4.
John Ferguson, Godolphin's chief executive and racing manager, told www.godolphin.com: "We are absolutely delighted with today's performance from Cloth Of Stars.
"I had a word with Andre afterwards and our thinking is to go for the Epsom Derby. We will have to supplement him for the Epsom Derby which is the same weekend as the Prix du Jockey Club.
"So everything depends on how Cloth Of Stars trains between now and then (supplementary stage for Epsom is May 30 at a cost of £75,000).
"Today's victory was over a mile and a quarter but both Mickael Barzalona and Andre said the colt will be suited by a mile and half.
"Cloth Of Stars is also the kind of horse to act on the course at Epsom and improving all the time, winning going away today."
If Fabre reckons that the Epsom race is the right race for him then i for one won't be disputing that and as you have eluded to this is a good race to throw a dart at this year.
He's no Pour Moi, yet, but they are definitely supplementing him and he will win imo.
Settled fine yesterday Ramruma, which was good to see after his keenness in other races.
shuld be a 50-1 shot as it is only 50-50 to enter. 16-1 without a run is ridiculous
I'd rather read quotes from Fabre than Ferguson to confirm he's a runner tbh.
Easy to say Greed he should be 50s but you wouldnt lay it.
I think 16s is fair as Sheik Mo would love to stuff it up to Coolmore when they clearly have 1/2 a dozen that are all pretty much the same
Settled far better yesterday . Would be suited by a strong pace
I would be very surprised if he aint supplemented in a wide open year.
I think 16s is fair as Sheik Mo would love to stuff it up to Coolmore when they clearly have 1/2 a dozen that are all pretty much the same
Settled far better yesterday . Would be suited by a strong pace
I would be very surprised if he aint supplemented in a wide open year.
"shuld be a 50-1 shot as it is only 50-50 to enter. 16-1 without a run is ridiculous"
Utter bollox on three levels I'm afraid.
sint - he's running subject to the usual provisos.
Utter bollox on three levels I'm afraid.
sint - he's running subject to the usual provisos.
Possibly some of you have been put away by the shabby reporting from Saint-Cloud, but if you go on the Godolphin website and look for the story entitled "Epsom Derby Target For Cloth Of Stars after Greffulhe Triumph" and starts with "Cloth Of Stars won the G2 Prix Greffulhe going away in great style at Saint-Cloud, France, on Sunday, May 8 and is now being aimed at the premier British Classic, the Investec Derby." it's pretty black and white.
If there's still some 50s floating around I'll have a bet that will make you sh1t yourself, cheers.
If there's still some 50s floating around I'll have a bet that will make you sh1t yourself, cheers.
I;d take 40- 50-1 too easily. However 16-1 without a run doesn;t enter my risk/reward calculations to make a money.
Greed which part of
Epsom Derby Target For Cloth Of Stars after Greffulhe Triumph
gives an hint of it may not run
Epsom Derby Target For Cloth Of Stars after Greffulhe Triumph
gives an hint of it may not run
Would politely suggest your "risk/reward calculations" need a tweak old boy. I'd have the horse as joint or 2nd fav and expect him to start somewhere around there come post time. The 20 is massive and if I hadn't been whacking the horse at 100+ on here I would be going in hard.
Just out of interest you say the horse should be 50 but then say you'd be a backer at 40/50 "easily". So you obviously don't think the horse should be 50. What price would you actually put the horse in at if you were obliged to lay him, Greed? (subject to your risk/reward calculations, naturally).
Just out of interest you say the horse should be 50 but then say you'd be a backer at 40/50 "easily". So you obviously don't think the horse should be 50. What price would you actually put the horse in at if you were obliged to lay him, Greed? (subject to your risk/reward calculations, naturally).
I agree with The Headmaster. was impressed with him yesterday as he settled far better than in the grand criterium and showed a good turn of foot to beat Robin Of Navan .Pure formlines using his tugging furiously effort in the grand criterium would won him the Chester Vase or The Derrinstown
Now hes settled far better and clearly be suited by a further 2 furlongs hes the bet for The Derby @ current 16s ish.
Now hes settled far better and clearly be suited by a further 2 furlongs hes the bet for The Derby @ current 16s ish.
headhunter, i;m bullish too and thank you for your response which is written in a polite and educated manner. Our betting methods are somewhat different as i don;t often back antepost but if i do, i need to back 70% of the field entered at double figures to get guaranteed profit rather than just backing one horse at single odds. This method has been successful so far.50-1 is optimistic , 25-1 is probably realistic without a run.and much will depend on how COS works the week before the derby.
Cloth of Stars deserves a place at Epsom as he showed a nice turn of foot in a good race. I've got a nice time for him, but he has to improve a fair bit to win at Epsom imo but if Fabre sends him then he's not without a chance especially as 12f should suit. One thing that I did notice is that he has a very low daisy cutting action and he surely did well to win on softish ground previously. Tha change in ground conditions may have played a part. The only negative I have is that he has taken 6 runs to get to an RPR of 113. Can he make the necessary improvemnt? Midterm is rated is rated 112 after just 2 runs for example.
Good points sandown.
I think he has been extremely difficult to teach how to actually race. Maybe they have now found the key ??
I think he has been extremely difficult to teach how to actually race. Maybe they have now found the key ??
he has to improve a fair bit to win at Epsom
are there any entries that don't need to improve to win it?
are there any entries that don't need to improve to win it?
E/W chance in an open year so wouldn't put anyone off, but I'd still be very depressed if he was good enough to win it.
If Midterm wins the Dante by 6 lengths will they suddenly go quiet about supplementing Stars Touching Cloth and Linguistic?
If Midterm wins the Dante by 6 lengths will they suddenly go quiet about supplementing Stars Touching Cloth and Linguistic?
If Midterm wins the Dante by 6 lengths, who will he have beaten? The Ballydoyle seventh, eighth and ninth strings? Is that enough to strike fear into the heart of, well, anyone?
£75,000 is peanuts for Godolphin. Almost literally. If the Sheikh is 1,000 times richer than you, then £75,000 for you is like £75 for him; similarly if he is a million times richer, then it is like 7.5 pence. The questions will be around how to maximise Godolphin's chances of taking both the French Derby and the Epsom Derby. Putting one over on Coolmore won't enter into it (well, maybe just a little bit).
If Midterm wins the Dante by 6 lengths, who will he have beaten? The Ballydoyle seventh, eighth and ninth strings? Is that enough to strike fear into the heart of, well, anyone?
£75,000 is peanuts for Godolphin. Almost literally. If the Sheikh is 1,000 times richer than you, then £75,000 for you is like £75 for him; similarly if he is a million times richer, then it is like 7.5 pence. The questions will be around how to maximise Godolphin's chances of taking both the French Derby and the Epsom Derby. Putting one over on Coolmore won't enter into it (well, maybe just a little bit).
Should probably have mentioned £75,000 is the cost of supplementing a horse into the Derby but we all knew that.
May 9, 2016 -- 11:02PM, eric_morris wrote:
If Midterm wins the Dante by 6 lengths will they suddenly go quiet about supplementing Stars Touching Cloth and Linguistic?
Deauville will not stay 1m 2f, but if it does win it is probably a third string for AOB. Foundation has gone backwards but may improve on Thursday. midday wins by a mile and on default
Very competitive Dante think it will have an effect on others running plans if anything pulls clear.
If sheikh mo is 1000 times richer than me he still couldn't afford to supplement 1 horse, let alone 2. As for the fabre horse, to me he looked more Ocavango than Pour Moi. However if he's somewhere in between it might be good enough.
Thoughts on Cloth now we've got the Dante out the way, Greed and Eric?
Geoff, dyno and a few others are pretty happy I'd have thought.....
Geoff, dyno and a few others are pretty happy I'd have thought.....
He didnt excite me, the others that he picked off at the close were looking a little one paced and fading which exaggerated his win imo. As a backer of Pour Moi at 20s (i know terrible after-timing) I thought straight away he had a lot of scope for improvement. This one I didnt get the same feel as a horse with a very good turn of foot would have cruised that race imo. He will improve though but there are going to be some really quick finishers who we know will stay at Epsom.
Oh dear YBM let's just get this out the way! You spent the Spring of 2011 begging Cecil to run Frankel in the Derby. If you backed Pour Moi all it could possibly have done is reduce your heavy red on the race. You were never green on PM. As Barzalona rose bolt upright in the stirrups my Betfair account was credited with 25K having nailed my colours firmly to the mast and flagged heavily on here, along with a few others. No aftertiming, was there for all to read. So let's put that particular pantomime to rest.
So are you winning anything on Cloth Of Stars or not? I mean actual green not have you backed him....
So are you winning anything on Cloth Of Stars or not? I mean actual green not have you backed him....
I have no reason to post lies on here. You are entitled to your opinion. I posted when i took 14s US Army Ranger is that made up as well.
Enjoy the walk down memory lane re the Pour Moi thread, eric/aunty/ybm...I'm sure many of us will 
no idea who this eric fella is. why would anyone lie about their bets? it doesn't make sense , why lie and get imaginary winnings? I'd rather tell the truth on losing bets and move on thankyou.
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