Cue card to stay Gold cup trip???

Think he's a better horse going left handed,and has a good record at. Cheltenham.
At Kempton he looked like he could stay further to me, same at Haydock.
Won't know for sure till the day,but I would not back against him just on the staying issue.

Granted gd/ish ground, which I have always thought.he was better on, he would have every chance of getting the Gold Cup trip, he looks a very diff & better horse this season.

I think he will stay.

Looked to me at Kempton that he wasn't loving it (again), but found a way to win. Overcoming (imo) a not great round of jumping, unfavoured underfoot conditions, and going right handed.

The 3 ahead of him in the betting are deemed certain stayers, but I have a sneaky feeling that Cue Card is going to make them look like plodders. If he stays

In my opinion, even if he does stay, others stay better. I thought Don Cossack was the winner all over until he fell in the King George and was outstaying Cue Card all day. Don Poli is probably the best stayer at the peak of the market and  Djakadam & Road to Riches stays the Gold Cup trip no question. So even if he does stay, which is an if in my eyes, others stay better. I would be reluctant to dismiss Vautour as a non stayer too, if Ricci didn't have Djakadam, I think there wouldn't even be a debate about going for the Gold Cup or Ryan Air

no

"Even if he does stay, others stay better"

So, you don't know he stays. But you know if he does stay it won't be as well as others?

Poppycock.

More to the point is Cue Card's jumping and cruising speed.  The staying plodders might just be too far  behind when Cue Card goes into overdrive after the penultimate fence. They might be staying on, but all too late.

Every time I see this question I go back and have a look at Cue Card's pedigree - I try very hard not to conflate what I want to happen with what is likely to happen - but the more I look at it, the more I'm inclined to think that it suggests that not only will he get the trip but he might actually improve for it.

Having said that Vautour's pedigree offers plenty of encouragement that he will stay too although there's not much evidence on the dam's side.

I'm no expert on pedigree and it's not a foolproof method of assessment obviously.

I am glad that he continues to be underestimated. If he was from Nicholls yard and he was telling us the wind op had worked, and all systems go now for the Gold Cup he would be minimum joint favourite.

I expect he will go off a good price on the day, with the 3 Irish rivals all garnering a big share of the stakes.

Jan 4, 2016 -- 7:34PM, BornToWin wrote:

"Even if he does stay, others stay better"So, you don't know he stays. But you know if he does stay it won't be as well as others?Poppycock.

Given he's been out stayed 3 times in a King George, once in a Betfair, once in Melling and once in a Punchestown Gold Cup I think its safe to say others have more assured stamina. Not to mention that in the Melling & Punchestown GC he was outstayed by one of the GC market principles.

So yes, if he does stay, others will still stay better.

Poppycock.

I don't think there's any race he's run in where you can say he's been outstayed. Just because a horse is beaten by a better horse on the day doesn't automatically mean it was outstayed. There may be several possible reasons. The closest you could ever come to saying Cue Card has been outstayed was when he lost the King George having gone clear of Conti. I said it then and I think I've been proven right that his defeat there wasn't the defeat of a horse being outstayed given he ran on again late on. With Cue Card it seems fairly clear that when his wind is right he is a top notch 3 miler. When it isn't he isn't. It certainly isn't stamina. I had to forcible withhold a snort of derision when it was suggested he was outstayed in the Melling.

Of course then we come to the conundrum arising from the question. Will he stay the extra quarter of a mile and will it benefit him or others more?

My guess is ground may be relevant to that consideration.

Aha! I was clutching at straws in my argument RE the Melling! But he did get passed 3 out and didn't get close to touching the Don until they were back in the parade ring. I do personally believe CC was outstayed in all of his King George failings but thats not here nor there. Whether or not this wind op has rejuvenated him into a genuine gold cup stayer, we won't know until the day. But i'm really struggling to have him as a better stayer than both of the Dons, Djakadam or even Roads to Riches. Id also make the point of if your stating an argument for Cue Card staying, then equal respect should probably be given to Vautour.

Im all over Don Poli for the gold cup personally. Its a complete game of opinions and its what makes this sport great. Roll on March

Jb23, you mention a lot of races pre wind op.

How has he got on this season?

I agree E...optimist, he has not been outstayed in any race.

Amen to that JB. I personally find the Gold Cup so fascinating because of that extra quarter mile. Is the class of a Cue Card or going back your Best Mate's and Kauto's enough to offset having to travel into territory where every yard extra is a small amount which the dour stayers will take off you?

On the issue of Cue Card and Vautour therein for me is another conundrum because visually you'd say Cue Card was the superior stayer at Kempton but then does anybody doubt he was primed to run for his life at Kempton or that Vautour is being primed to peak just for that one race in March? Both act on the course which can't be said for sure about all of them wit Don Cossack being a good example. The ideal bend of class and stamina and yet he keeps falling or blundering away his chances even in lesser races than the Gold Cup.

Like I say, therein lies the beauty. A puzzle for adults. Every year you get a fresh one and this is just the one race.

For once we agree very much eternal. This Gold Cup is a nice puzzle.

I am against Cue Card because he would probably have lost to Don Cossack at Kempton. I agree he may not stay 26 furlongs at Cheltenham (he of course just might stay).
Don Cossack might win but he may not be the best jumper of a fence ever,
Djakadam is interesting and would have been a good winner last year but for the freak performance of Coneygree. The Gold Cup suits some horses well. Go Ballistic and The Giant Bolster ran miles better in the race than any others they went for. Djakadam looks likely to go close but he's 4/1 and so this is not exactly a revelation! Djakadam is young and has scope to improve. If he does improve on last year's effort he might just win.
Don Poli is still interesting and the response to his last run was silly ( the lengthening of his odds). The going was terrible and as a trial it was a farce. And he won. He has those attributes you need; a battler, a sound jumper, a very strong stayer, & a course winner over fences.
I am doubtful for the obvious reasons (ie the known evidence) that Vautour will stay the trip.

So it's a fight between one of the non-Oxford dons and  Djakadam. I like the Gold Cup form best so he is the one. However the odds are so tight ante post you may still get better value on the day.

DC might have been tired when it fell, how it can be assured to have beaten CC is nonsense. DP is a plodder who will be outpaced. Djak is a serious rival but CC has more track success. Get the million ready.

I actually think the staying issue with Cue Card no longer exists.
His trainer is one I actually listen to and take note....not many I can say that about!!
He's adamant he's a real stayer now,and all the evidence this season backs that up.
I'm confident he stays and confident he will run a huge race,he's bang in form and the confidence in him from trainer and jockey is clear to see.

He has completely won me over this season.

Anyone backing DC at 5s needs to rethink their life, given what he has shown on the big occasion. He might be 5/1 had he stood up and won at Kempton, but failed he did. Again.

You have Road To Riches @ 20s who got within 3.5 lengths of the mighty (becoming mightier now that we won't see him for a long time ) Coneygree. One of around 6 I would rather back than DC at current prices.

My feelings are Cue card will stay at least as well as anything else in the race but cannot win, the reason for that is AGE !!!!
10 year olds rarely win grade 1 or championship races at Cheltenham (1 this century I think) and plenty of BIG names failed Kauto, Denman, Big Bucks so we are not talking also ran 10 year old but the very best

Jan 7, 2016 -- 9:45PM, BornToWin wrote:

Anyone backing DC at 5s needs to rethink their life, given what he has shown on the big occasion. He might be 5/1 had he stood up and won at Kempton, but failed he did. Again.You have Road To Riches @ 20s who got within 3.5 lengths of the mighty (becoming mightier now that we won't see him for a long time ) Coneygree. One of around 6 I would rather back than DC at current prices.

Just noticed that R2R is a shorter price in the Ryan Air market. Given O'Leary sponsors the race I'd expect him to want a decent hand in the race and can't see any other real candidates to run it away from R2R or FL- who now looks too highly rated off 160 for any handicaps.

I would be stunned if they went for the Ryanair Jb23, after going so close last year. Of course decisions are made by owners/trainers that baffle us punters all the time.

Yes robbo69, the age stat is worrying. There is a strong possibilty that finally conquering Kempton was the crescendo, and he had a hard race. He won't run again before the big one, which I also believe to be a bad stat but he was in rude health after Kempton having lost no weight. I think he may end up the forgotten horse in the race despite being 3/3 this year and improving every run.

So would I BornToWin but like you say baffling decisions happen every year. Been raking my brains for the last half an hour to find a non novice Gigginstown chaser and just remembered they have Valseur Lido! Given the way he ran in the JLT and his form around 2& a half, he could be well be their Ryanair horse. 33s at Paddy and as short as 9s at Coral, has to be worth a little ew play

Agree with VL for the Ryanair Jb, I've had a couple of nibbles at the 33's.