Horse Antepost
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Gleneagles has won 5 group 1s, three on good to firm, one on good, and one on good to soft. Let's take the good to firm ones. National Stakes: beat Toscanini and Dutch Connection, horses who have proved to be group 3 winners, nothing more. Ordinary form.
Guineas? As it turned out, had only one horse with any group 1 pretensions to beat. Was given a good ride, getting first run on that rival (Territories) and raced on the apparently favoured stands side (more pace and nearer rail).
St James Palace? Beat luminaries such as Latharnach and Consort, with one Listed win between them this season.
Now let's take his runs on apparently less than ideal ground.
Lagardere: drawn 9 of 9, a basically impossible position around Longchamp, he raced 3/4 wide throughout and showed tremendous battling qualities to 'win.'
Irish Guineas: given a complacent ride (being kind) he somehow made up a tremendous amount of ground to win, again showing guts and the capacity to overcome adversity.
Conclusion: by any measure, the horses he has beaten do not suggest he is any sort of world beater on any surface, though he could be a lot better than he's shown. However, if he has shown any really impressive attributes on his last 5 starts, it's actually been on ground that connections insist isn't ideal.
The whole thing is a muddle. They don't know their own horse. Wins by open daylight are not necessarily better than narrow triumphs.
My opinion is that he's just not all that good, but I'd love to get the chance to be proved wrong.
Guineas? As it turned out, had only one horse with any group 1 pretensions to beat. Was given a good ride, getting first run on that rival (Territories) and raced on the apparently favoured stands side (more pace and nearer rail).
St James Palace? Beat luminaries such as Latharnach and Consort, with one Listed win between them this season.
Now let's take his runs on apparently less than ideal ground.
Lagardere: drawn 9 of 9, a basically impossible position around Longchamp, he raced 3/4 wide throughout and showed tremendous battling qualities to 'win.'
Irish Guineas: given a complacent ride (being kind) he somehow made up a tremendous amount of ground to win, again showing guts and the capacity to overcome adversity.
Conclusion: by any measure, the horses he has beaten do not suggest he is any sort of world beater on any surface, though he could be a lot better than he's shown. However, if he has shown any really impressive attributes on his last 5 starts, it's actually been on ground that connections insist isn't ideal.
The whole thing is a muddle. They don't know their own horse. Wins by open daylight are not necessarily better than narrow triumphs.
My opinion is that he's just not all that good, but I'd love to get the chance to be proved wrong.
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they are hoping he wins impressively, and crushes his biggest rival for the top miler honors.
that way they can say- this is why we wrapped him in cotton wool. the whole ground issue is a nonsense of course. but you are right, nothing he has done thus far has really blowed us away. I feel the value now lies with territories and possibly elm park, if like me you feel the front two are both vulnerable. |
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Kodi Bear is the one for me
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Gleneagles, is the best miler on a firmish surface, his Goodwood win does not read very well, until we know the state of the ground,it is hard to form opinion, race tactics most important,Solow will not be hanging around from 3f out,expect pressure to reveal stamina doubts in Gleneagles, but also expect the withdrawal of Gleneagles if the ground is estimated at 3 sec slower than average?
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I agree that so far Gleneagles hasn't shown himself to be the outstanding miler O'Brien claimed earlier but I think he's about as good as O'Brien's previous best milers and he won't need to be a superstar to win this. I backed Solow at Ascot, he's a decent enough older miler but I don't have him in the class of recent older milers like Farhh and Moonlight Cloud. On the clock I have Gleneagles and Solow dead level on these terms so it may be other minor factors that swing the difference. Even though there is no obvious front runner I think we may get a decent pace because of the competitive nature of the race and in those circumstances I normally favour the horse that is played latest, which I think would be Gleneagles. I also think Moore is a better jockey than Guyon.
Ultimately for me the deciding factor is the price and in a race with nothing between the front two Gleneagles is the value so he's the one I'm backing. I just can't have the rest and they'll need both of the front two to under perform to figure. |
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laid solow. admittedly not based on much logic, but just have a feeling he'll get beat.
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Poor gleneagles ,he never gets any respect , how was he not champion 2y0 ,i really like him i have seen in the flesh so i can tell you he does exist LOL . Once again ever one is doubt n him and make up conspiracy theory's as to why he hasn't run . If there is to be a reason he hasn't run i believe it is the moore factor after what happened with OZ last year in the irish champion , hence the talk of Aidan leaven ballydoyle .
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the whole gleneagles sorry saga shows something not right in ballydoyle
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"the best miler i've ever trained"
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You were right Howellsy, awful display from Gleneagles, never really travelling and the lack of money for him was an ominous sign. Have to wonder if their reluctance to run him recently was because he'd turned into a bit of a donkey on the gallops.
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No bet on the race for me though as I left it late and Solow was very short in my opinion - but rightly so.
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They might have to keep him in training now. He's a different horse on gf.
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so is he saying they were "giving him a run"?
ffs |
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looking at the race beforehand, gleneagles looked to have gone in his coat. wish I'd laid him instead
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nice bit of conditioning by aiden o'brien
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totally agreed Harry... I think if they didn't run him at Ascot today - they were going to ride him at another track (I think Southwell or something)
Todays run was to blow cobwebs away... different horse will turn up in breeders with faster ground... How he was challenging for favouritism is beyond belief! |
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i keep reading people saying the faster ground will suit him in america iris however i don't understand, as he is being prepared to run on DIRT
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Gleneagles was unbeaten this season and had been first past the post in every start since his debut. Nevertheless he still hadn't been given the opportunity to beat an older horse and still had something to prove as far as his reputation goes. Therefore I find it a bit of a stretch, to say the least, to believe O'Brien would happily concede the QE2 just to prepare him for a tilt in America. He didn't exactly seem like a man whose plan had been fulfilled after the race and was even talking that he shouldn't have run him. Even allowing for the moderate pace there were no excuses as horses that were further back finished ahead of him.
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Don't buy that the QEII was just a prep race - AO'B has always been happy to run in big races without a warm-up.
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yes A_T but the breeders cup is in 2 weeks...
just ran the horse to take the edge off him for the breeders cup imo... when o'brien says he shouldn't of run the horse, i take that to mean he was going to need the run and wasn't ready to run to his full potential because if he was prepared to run to his full potential he wouldn't of drifted like a barge and he wouldn't be taking the horse to the breeders cup with such a short space of time between the 2 races |
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“We knew it would be tough to come here,” O’Brien said. “He’d not had a break from training all summer and with the benefit of hindsight, I should have said we won’t run. He’s a high-class, fast-ground miler and we took a chance today and it didn’t pay off. About the Breeders’ Cup Classic, we’ll have to go home and see how he is, to see whether he runs there"
So not had a break from training all summer and was supposed to be ready to run in the Irish Champion Stakes, difficult to see why he wouldn't have been ready yesterday, to my admittedly amateur eye he certainly didn't lack a fitness edge in the paddock. O'Brien blaming the ground but the ground definitely wasn't slow. With hindsight my guess is the horse hasn't been showing the same sparkle and that's why they've been so concerned about everything being spot on for him. If he'd been showing them he was raring to go I doubt they'd have pulled him out like they have on ground that wasn't much slower than good. I'll be amazed if he can win on his first time on dirt after that lacklustre display, he looked in trouble at halfway and I doubt he'll even make the trip unless he does something impressive in his work. |
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best trainer in the world.best jockey in the world.bred to stay at least 10f trainer says best miler he ever trained. ill be backing it for sure.they wont or arnt running it to be blown away..too much money at stake..
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won't even get his ground!
But he's a class horse, and moreover a superb stallion prospect, breeders will be lining up for him and he could make the very top bracket in time. |
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With AFB looking to do the 2000 double and St. James, which are ofc the three most important to a stallion prospect because they are high summer and show precocity, and the stud fee (50k ?) Gleneagles will command, there's no chance he'll stay in training, imo.
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Gleneagles Runs on Lasix in Breeders’ Cup- http://formbet.co.uk/gleneagles-runs-on-lasix-in-breeders-cup/
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horse will need a miracle lasix or not, against a good crop of dirt horses
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stone cold last.....
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