irish champion stakes

O'Brien has said Gleneagles will only run if firm is included in the description, so we can take it that even genuinely good ground will be ruled out. Still wouldn't be surprised if GH is pulled despite what Gosden said this afternoon. Another farce where ante post betting is concerned.

I can't even think about betting on the race at the moment but I really hope we get Gleneagles, Free Eagle, TGG and Golden Horn all in there, fast ground and a decent pace.
The Eclipse was a bit disappointing with the early pace and the KG was ruined with the rain and GH pulling out, the sussex stakes w/o Gleneagles and again the Juddmonte the same and also messy.
I just want to see a really good all aged contest with all the leading players involved and a good pace as it's been a disappointing season so far.

Think the fillies might be of interest if any of them turn up,Legatissimo,Found,Arabian Queeen,Pleascach,etc etc.

I don't see why Free Eagle will not run with some cut in the ground. It was proper soft at Ascot last year.

Much as I'd love, as everyone would, a real top clash I doubt it's gonna happen.

Firstly, AO'B already making excuses for Gleneagles saying "three times we've prepared him to race and haven't got to do so, so you worry if it will affect him" - to me that's the groundwork for saying he's not racing again.

Secondly, I see Anthony Oppenheimer say GH is unlikely unless the ground is quite favourable, which on balance it's not.

I do see TGG as he's a stable star and those races don't come around for owners / trainers like them. Kevin Ryan always seems game for him to race. Free Eagle will also handle any cut so he'll be in.

Most interesting will be which / any fillies. Legatissimo would give TGG and FE some run ! Wachman said her best is to quicken off a 10f pace, and if she's the top pick for Coolmore it makes a lot more sense than the Matron, though AO'B did say Highland Reel is likely, though he'd hardly be competitive so maybe a filly could be the interesting one.

Pleascach will be an interesting runner.

I just really doubt either of the two main horses will show up. There's like >75% chance the going will slow side of good, which they won't run on.

Interestingly, though she disappointed in the race, Legatissimo was fancied to handle a cut, but it turned out to be a bog. Just something to keep in mind...

Anyone know if jack hobbs is an intended runner?

By all accounts Kempton is the most likely option.

It absolutely bucketed rain here yesterday, still a week and a half to go I know but anymore of that and it will be soft and neither of the big 2 will be running

How can Gosden run GH over 10f again?, it will never happen.

i've got a strong feeling gleneagles will run unless the ground is terrible ,as i believe this is his swang song ,not to mention Dubawi is 800,000 ahead of galileo in the sire championship this year and it could be the first time in 25 years coolmore don't own the winner of the sire championship .I get the feeling all the galileo's they have will be running in the big races

Dry forecast until Friday but then (at least according to some forecasts) heavy rain Friday night into Saturday - God alone knows what the final field will be?

Presuambly Legatissimo or Found will only become possible runners if Gleneagles is pulled out - but they may well have to declare for their other weekend targets (Matron and Vermeille?) before the extent of the rain is known.

only 10mm rain forecast atm before Saturday, and even that is uncertain,

John Gosden did seem keen to go again when interviewed at Kempton - he even let The Fugue off the hook on proper G/S and she needed fast ground more than Golden Horn.

It's a big prize.

I'd be afraid of Gleneagles, AO'B is making excuses already, about how they've prepped him three times and haven't run so don't know what shape his mind is in. Also the BC Classic is his final aim so might be, as with the year of The Fugue, a withdrawal in favour of that race as he did with Declaration of War. Finally, Gleneagles might well simply need the race given all the messing about.

I'm all on Golden Horn to come and stamp his class on a good surface

(Btw)

Pretty sure at this stage that Legatissimo will go for the Matron, Found the Vermeille, and Highland Reel will run in the Champion (as ofc may Gleneagles).

Even with rain, Highland Reel has form on that so Leggy and Found are no backups.

Been no rain the last 3 days and a fair bit of sun as well

10mm of rain that ffs says we're going to get has to put Glens run in doubt. That so called champions can't run om anything other than their prefered conditions is frightening for the future of the breed - undoubtably Glen will have 100+ choice mares whose offspring will have similar ground requirements.

Latest BBC and Irish Met Office forecast suggest plenty of the wet stuff on the way for Friday/Saturday. Other weather sites show considerbaly less.

Anyone know which of the fillies are intended runners?

Sep 9, 2015 -- 5:29PM, layingisthewayforward wrote:

Anyone know which of the fillies are intended runners?

David Wachman seems to be keen on Legatissimo,

as reported in the Irish Times

“All options are open at this stage. We will have to see how things are shaping up on Thursday, see what the ground is like, and see what the owners want to do.”


Not a lot of confidence behind Gleneagles, (even allowing that he might well get his ground

"Unfortunately it's very hard to call with the terrible weather forecast and we'll declare Gleneagles and wait," said O'Brien.

"We'd obviously love to run him at Leopardstown but asking him to get the trip on that (unsuitable) ground wouldn't be fair on him. I've no doubt he's a genuine miler, but if the rain came it would make it messy for a lot of mine.

* terrible weather forecast * is 10 mm on good/firm :D

I don't think he's going to run, they won't want him beaten in front of that crowd when he's already

a) Champion 2yo

b) Dual Guineas winner

c) Royal Ascot winner

Yes, it would be a marginal feather in his cap from a Stud pov to win the Champ Stks but if he flops it'll cost a lot lot more

As was asked in a previous article posted on here, are breeders really that foolish? They would be more willing to shell out on a horse still unproven over further than a mile, whose trainer has repeatedly expressed doubts of him being anything more than a miler and better on fast ground, but if those doubts were manifested at Leopardstown then they wouldn't be so keen? If that's true then they really must be thick.

I think Figgis, a mile is plenty sufficient for breeders. A lot more broodmares looking for extra speed than speedballs looking to produce stamina.

the 10f is really important for a Derby horse - to show that speed - not necc the other way round, jmo.

My guess is they are praying for a few drops of rain for Gleneagles.  Immediate retirement.

Certainly a tricky race to work out considering the unknowns of the going. Taking my usual route of looking at group 1 races.

1/ remove horses that have not had a prep race.. Seems strange to some, but ignoring early season group 1s, eg guineas, lochinge etc, from mid summer onwards, it would seem that fillies do best in group 1s without a prep race. Last run in the last 7 weeks is my cut off point...lose Gleneagles, Free Eagle and Cirrus Des Aigles.

2/ lack of group 1 form...must have placed at least, in the highest level.....none. This would leave a process of elimination..
Pleasach, best efforts over 12f and despite winning over the course, she looks better suited to a long finishing straight.
Grey Gatsby, ideally suited to courses with a relatively short finishing straight, heavy overnight rain is his main concern.
Golden Horn, should be unbeaten and didn't look as good at York as his ratings suggested. My thoughts are the Eclipse and being trained for ascot and not running, could have bottomed him.
Found,  won or placed in 4 attempts in group 1 company? Very difficult to kick out of the placings with her getting weight off the 4yos.
Highland Reel. My ante post for the derby until he was routed to France, where he finished 2nd to New Bay. His run in the Irish derby was disappointing, maybe his 3rd group 1 in 7 weeks was his downfall. Dropped in class nto and won nicely, then easily following up at Arlington. Good chance he has got his confidence back and is improving. Likely front runner, but jockey is my biggest worry,but at the price, he's worth a bet.

Highland Reel 20/1 ew
Found 10/1 win.

With the rain forecast its a wait & see what happens now, if like me u have not played yet.
Gleneagles must be a near certainty not to run.
Golden Horn not certain to go either if it turns soft.

Bbc forecast doesn't seem too bad, but you are correct in waiting if you've not already played. Quite possible, that if the torential rain does materialise, then 3 of the top 4 in the market may not run..bringing in the dreaded rule 4

heavy rain in dublin at the moment

Trust the rain to come & feck up another cracking flat festival
York got the same turning to g/s the night before after it looked certain to get g/f
Bloody weather

It's a pitty , only been big into flat racing since 08 , so this would have easily been the best line up or race i would have seen , 8 runner's 8 group 1 winners , and some top group 1's as well , good 3y0's , good 4y0's ,good fillies  and just to put the icing on the cake ,the legend himself Mr cirrus des aigles . But mother nature's say's NO

27mm of rain and more to come... Few non runners coming.

Gleneagles has got no chance in this run or not

The Grey Gatsby looks the winner now as all of the higher rated ones prefer goood ground.

Sep 12, 2015 -- 10:32AM, A_T wrote:

Gleneagles has got no chance in this run or not

Definitely got no chance if its 'not'

Might back Found, depending on the make up of the market once the non-runners are confirmed.

The going was verging on firm before the rain so with a drying day in porspect just the easy side of good seems the worst it's going to be.

I really fancy Free Eagle - loves the track and goes well fresh. Just hope Gleneagles runs to help hold the price up.

Very surprised at Gosdens decision too travel,with fc ground and distance? WTF

Apparently they had some more rain at lunchtime?

Ground looks no worse than borderline good to soft judging by the latest race. Gleneagles would've been my choice but a tricky race now with him out of the running. If Golden Horn wins he'll look a generous price after but in light of his latest run I think his price offers no value, with the possibility he's done enough for the season.

The POW form looked ordinary at the time but I thought it may have been compromised by the early pace, however The Grey Gatsby has done nothing since to substantiate that view and I now think he hasn't improved from 3 to 4. That doesn't say much for Free Eagle as I still believe TGG would've beaten him with a clear run. Maybe he'll come on for the run but I can't back him.

In spite of Arabian Queen's defeat of GH I don't go along with the view that this year's fillies are close to the colts and even with the fillies allowance I have Found a full stone behind a peak GH. Maybe she can improve again but if not I reckon she needs GH and all the older horses to run below form to figure.

The latest run of Cirrus Des Aigles doesn't give much encouragement and at 9 age may have finally caught up with this tough and talented gelding. It would be no surprise if he won or finished entirely out of the frame but with no firm confidence about the rest and him available at double figures I will have to risk a few quid.

Great race which I am going to swerve. Will be a little peeved if Highland Reel makes the frame but just going to watch and enjoy.

Anyone impressed with Golden Horn? Will he go to the Arc? I understand he's had to make the running but seems to have a hard race to me.

If the Leger winner is thrown out then so should Golden Horn be there. That's where the rule doesn't make sense in this country...

WD any winners though.

Wasn't sure what to make of Found's Arc prospects on the back of that but I see she's been cut.

I think the winner was lucky to keep the race; I'd not be surprised if GH swerve the 'Arc'. Did Dettori receive a 'holiday' for his effort?

really disappointing finish to the race especially for free eagle backers of which i was one, i thought the winner was responding but still think it would of been very close and took away from yet another great race to win the irish champion stakes

will be interesting to see where they go with found, who could only find the one paced

Difficult to say what would've happened. Stop many a race 150yds out and the outcome is often far different than looked likely at that stage but to me it did look as though Free Eagle was at least going to run Golden Horn close when the interference took place. Either way the form doesn't look great and assuming Treve still retains her form I didn't see anything there that I'd be interested in opposing her with.

Again there were no signs at all of the old Cirrus Des Aigles ability, with no excuses this time and hopefully they give him a well deserved retirement now.

The problem is that there are no rules that would preclude unsatisfactory outcomes. In France or America Found would have won that. Would anyone really want to see that sort of thing happening? She was never going to win. I backed Free Eagle and have no complaints at all. The colt was all over the place under pressure and although it's impossible to tell what would have happened if GH had let straight, I suspect FE would have ended up on the rail in behind GH.

disagree with your last line howellsy, thought he was finding myself

I thought the winner was good on ground absolutely as soft as he'd want it, Found was brilliant and will come on again for it, Free Eagle is a class horse and it's a credit to the front two that they held him - he does handle that ground and it would have been close 3-ways.

They left 2 excellent horses in Highland Reel and Pleascach another 2L back who both handle that ground so the form is very strong imo.

Ofc TGG another 1L back

Front three were very, very good.

I backed Cirrus Des Aigles so I am not talking through my pocket.  (the commentator was saying Cyrus every time?)

Again I was disgusted with the Leopardstown Stewards in an Irish Champion Stakes.
The first time was 2003 when Falbrav was deliberately put into the rail by High Chaparral, beaten a neck, stewards' inquiry and objection, and High Chaparral kept it.

Yesterday Golden Horn interfered with the horse who was a close second at the time,  Free Eagle, costing him his chance, and again swung in his direction before the line.
Comments that Golden Horn would have won anyway because he was 1l, 1/2l ahead at the line are weak.
He significantly slowed Free Eagle, who was unable to maintain momentum.

Harry, it looked like he was finding something at the time, side on, but the head on showed him to be hanging left under Smullen's corrective whip, and at the time of the bump he was a good 3/4 length behind and not running straight. He would have ended up on the rail in my view, though this might have helped him to run on for second.

I'm fairly sure golden horn would have still won. I'm also fairly sure the filly would have still won the larger as well, which is where the rules fail.

It's whether you want a horse penalised for 'fouling' another or whether you want the stewards to have the position of predicting what would have been the outcome without the incident. The latter is obviously far harder to implement, as we've seen yesterday. And the former is the international style we all seem to moan about...

I was a Free Eagle backer and I think Golden Horn would probably have fought back and won anyway, but Free Eagle went through the race like the best horse and on better ground could be a real superstar. I know Weld has talked about the Arc for him for a couple of years but I can't see him staying, and the Champion Stakes at Ascot would be a better target if the ground isn't too bad. Maybe he would be better off going to the Far East or Australia for some of their big 10f races.
I wonder if they will keep him in training next year.

fozwald, my apology: I had not read post race comments by Gosden that GH jumped a shadow.

Free Eagle very unlucky the bump from GH cost it any chance.

If Found had not finished second and FE had, the result might well have been reversed. The distance between them might not have carried as much weight as the fact that the bump knocked FE out of his stride and he couldn't be expected to have recovered in time given how close was the line when the incident occurred. Just before the bump FE looked to be getting up a head of steam. Smullen could have made a lot of that in front of the stewards.

A few questions
1) would Free Eagle have beaten Found with a clear run?
2) would Free Eagle have beaten Golden Horn with a clear run?

I would say the answer to (1) is yes.
The answer to (2) is difficult to answer.  There was about 1/2 length between them.
The logic of saying Free Eagle didn't finish second so should not be awarded the race is flawed.

With that thinking the more damaging the interference caused by the first past the post the more chance he has of retaining the race.
A clumsy analogy would be the more you injure a player in the penalty area the less chance of conceding a penalty.

Anybody know who galloped with Glen after racing?