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Navel-Gazer
20 Jun 15 17:49
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Date Joined: 12 Jul 12
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This has to be the most unappealing there has been in living memory...so it's a fantastic opportunity for a potential late developing 3yo or an improving older horse to be supplemented and have a shot as the 4/1 fav Snow Sky is nothing to fear - he'll do well to win a group one in the future as he had the run of the race today and will be over-rated on that performance.

He only scraped home from a penalised Brown Panther at Chester...that extra 5lb made all the difference.
When was the last time a handicap winner was third in the ante-post market?

There are presently 31 entries and NOTHING stands out:
http://www.racingpost.com/horses2/cards/card.sd?race_id=627834&r_date=2015-07-25#raceTabs=lc_

Where are all the Jáp horses? Surprised It's there for the taking!
A group one pot for a race that in reality is only group two.

4 Snow Sky
6 Eagle Top
8 Mahsoob
8 Postponed
8 Telescope
9 Flintshire
12 Dolniya
12 Karpino
16 Aloft
16 Pethers Moon
20 Kingfisher
20 Dylan Mouth
20 The Corsican
25 Romsdal
25 Hillstar
33 Clever Cookie
33 Ol' Man river

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Replies: 187
By:
Figgis
When: 20 Jun 15 18:51
Christ, Mahsoob only 8/1?! I heard the overboard comments on tv today but still didn't expect that. Wouldn't even win a Gp3 for me in a normal year.
By:
sintonian
When: 20 Jun 15 19:23
How many times has Telescope been beaten as favourite now? 5 or 6? Stoute saying the ground was too firm.

Where are the 3 year olds. Some horses who are in the Irish Derby will also run here.
By:
Millerracing67
When: 21 Jun 15 11:46
Had a few small plays on here for the KG.
Jack Hobbs 10.0
The Grey Gatsby 10.0
Highland Reel 12.5

Would like to see The Grey Gatsby have a crack at 12f on fast ground, hopefully with R L Moore in the saddle Mischief
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 21 Jun 15 16:08
Connections of the top 10f horses MUST have a rethink here as it might even turn into a great race if they pull their fingers out.
Quality performers like The Great Gatsby, Free Eagle, New Bay & California Closets could be considered. The foreign challenge should well be spicing this up a bit and wouldn't you think Coolmore would be able to rustle something up and have a go?

There is tremendous presige in winning a race like this...like the Arc it's like a group one A+ and in all likelihood, it's going to be won by a bum - what a waste!

The prices on Betfair are a bit of a clue - I don't think I'd be exaggerating in saying Jack Hobbs (especially after winning at The Curragh) would be odds-on if he lined up against that lot...not to mention Golden Horn who'd be a Nashwan-esque 1/5 in my opinion!
By:
sageform
When: 21 Jun 15 16:10
Assuming that Treve does not run, I would have to agree that it is not a very inspiring list. I have been a Snow Sky fan since his debut but was frustrated by his 3yo career. His York win may not have been that impressive but he did win and Sir Michael could not conceal his surprise and excitement about the improvement at Ascot at 12 furlongs. It was still only a Group 2 and the tactics probably caught out most of the oppposition but Ryan started shaking the reins at Telescope before the beginning of the straight and SS just galloped away from them all. Otherwise I still rate Flintshire above any other European horses apart from Treve.
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 21 Jun 15 16:33
SF - we're all allowed to like horses that aren't superstars mate Grin Snow Sky is worth his group one entry but he'll struggle to win a half-decent one in my view - that said, if we had one more runner in the PoW I would've smashed into it at 14/1 but I'm sure many others will say that too.

When something like Flintshire is rated so highly and as low as 7/1, it says everything.
Just learned that the Yank is going home.
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 21 Jun 15 16:40
Sorry guys...The GREY Gatsby & California CHROME - I'm hungover from Ascot! Blush
By:
ReaseHeath
When: 21 Jun 15 18:29
I checked the Telescope stat yday - beaten fav 6 times in 14 races (twice at odds on).

Where do you start with this race?

I still like Eagle Top - only raced 6 times, he's hinted at potential to achieve more in three of his last four for me - forget the Brigadier Gerard which was clearly a prep run, great turn of foot to see off Adelaide in last year's KEVII, battled on well in last year's King George and did well to ultimately outstay Postponed yday in a tactical race where he was n't seen in his best light imo - I'd be hopeful he could reverse form with Snow Sky assuming that one is supplemented,

Obvious reservations are that those four races have been over a 12 month period and he's only won one of them.

Other speculative thoughts are that if I were Simcock, I'd seriously consider supplementing Balios and that, given none of the Ballymore colts inspire much confidence, I wonder if AOB will give some consideration to running Qualify here given the weight allowance and that he potentially has Words for the Irish Oaks.   

Gosden clearly has a strong hand and what he/his owners choose to run will be informative - I know he ran 3 x 3yo last year, but I recall the owner being keen to run the filly because she was retiring at the end of the season, ET had n't contested a classic and Romsdal ownd by Princess Haya/Godolphin.
By:
ReaseHeath
When: 21 Jun 15 18:36
Perhaps I've overlooked the fact that Qualify is not Coolmore owned and that they also have Legatissimo for the Irish Oaks with Wachman, anyway it's interesting Qualify holds an entry here whereas none of the Coolmore owned fillies are entered.
By:
sageform
When: 21 Jun 15 20:23
I certainly would not have a bet until past the supplementary entry date as there are a few horses that could be put in. Will Juddmonte want to run both Flintshire and Snow Sky-or even Time Test? I know the entry fee is no object but they might stick with the ones that have the original entry and aim the others elsewhere. Balios would certainly be speculative-it didn't look a strong race last week. Eagle Top looked impressive in that race last year but hasn't really made it to Group 1 level.
By:
ElT
When: 21 Jun 15 20:45
This has to be the most unappealing there has been in living memory...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe if you were born in 2015. The field last year had 4-5 G1 wins going in, and the favourite and 3rd favourite had none. I´d guess the field this year will have more.
By:
Millerracing67
When: 22 Jun 15 14:04
Could be wrong but i dont think The Derby winner is being aimed at the KG, more like the Eclipse then on to York for the Juddmonte, then a break until The Arc (ground permitting) or the Champion Stks. Treve not even being considered for this i would think.
Off the older horses i would like to see The Grey Gatsby have a crack at it on fast ground.
Will be interesting to see what 3yos have a go at it, given their weight allowances.
By:
sageform
When: 22 Jun 15 14:29
Can't remember if they were in the KG, but Halling and I think Conduit started in handicaps. Mahsoob has to improve an awful lot but the way he has been ridden to date has been all about fooling the handicapper so there could easily be 12lb more to come.
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 22 Jun 15 14:43
I wouldn't dispute that Sage but they were progressive...not diving straight into a group one from a handicap.
PS - I'm sure you realise that Conduit WON the King George in a 1-2-3 for Stoute - Halling never raced over 12f.
By:
sintonian
When: 22 Jun 15 16:35
ET is interesting, plenty of stamina in his pedigree so 10 would never have suited.

Qualify has been supplemented for the Irish Derby.
By:
harry callaghan
When: 22 Jun 15 16:50
really disappointed how connections have trained postponed this season

took him to the lead in both his first 2 races, when they knew he was a hold up horse, then say after these 2 races he wants to be held up in a strongly run 1m 4f race, which is fair enough but why educate him to front run, when you know he is a hold up horse

at ascot saturday there was no guaranteed pace so they chose this race to reign him back, thus leading to the horse pulling from a wide draw...i just don't get how they have trained him and he didn't finish his race out in the hardwicke either...i know connections felt that he had to set the fractions over 1m2f but now the horse didn't look to finish his race out and was very lit up, he looks exposed to me now and better opportunities over 1m4f were upcoming, very disappointed how they trained the horse myself
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 22 Jun 15 17:19
It probably goes against the grain but I suspect both Eagle Top & Postponed will finish ahead of Snow Sky over similar conditions despite the emphatic nature of the victory for Snow Sky...I'd say that looks unlikely to most people - I thought the jockeys were only interested in tracking Telescope (who has a wind-up finishing kick) and when he failed to pick up, the race was gone.

We'll see in due course but I think the winner is very much flattered despite looking good on the day...he may well have improved dramatically which isn't exactly unheard of from a an older Stoute horse.
By:
Howellsy
When: 22 Jun 15 17:45
Completely agree Harry. My only conclusion is that Cumani wanted to see if he could get a group 1 10f win so went for the weakest in the calendar, and after that gallant effort, the Hardwicke was a prep for the KG. Either way, it does all look to have gone pear shaped for the horse now.
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 22 Jun 15 17:49
I wouldn't give up on Postponed or Eagle Top...besides the winner having an easy time of things, it was rattling fast ground last week and that makes it easy for me to overlook any disappointing run.
By:
sageform
When: 22 Jun 15 19:34
I knew that Halling never ran beyond 10 furlongs but couldn't remember where Conduit ran apart from the Breeders Cup when I was at Santa Anita to see him, Goldikova and Ravens Pass all win and pay for a great night out in Pasadena. Pilsudski was another horse that Stoute brought through from modest beginnings to Group 1 success.
By:
Roger De Bris
When: 24 Jun 15 15:25
Only Ave Maria's race prevented this from being the farce of the 5 day meeting...
By:
Millerracing67
When: 27 Jun 15 17:49
Hope Jack goes for the KG, looks a sure fire winner imo.
Hope big John has a change of heart about a rest??
Horse is thriving imo.
Took a bit more of the price on here, 9.0
By:
A_T
When: 27 Jun 15 18:04
JH must go for this - only other race worth winning for this type is the Arc.
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 27 Jun 15 20:32
I think it's a mistake to forego the Ascot showpiece (I'd definitely go there if I was the owner as it's an open-goal) but I have to concede that Johnny G will know a tad more than I do about a horse's progress - he MUST have looked at the race and been tempted but connections seem to have a plan to turn this colt into another 'Swain' by keeping him on the go for a few more years.

I'm just surprised how quickly the decision has been made...before seeing how Jack Hobbs has taken today's race.
By:
metro john
When: 27 Jun 15 21:00
I think if GH don't come, then Free Eagle and at a price Aloft would look the picks, make a book around these two.
By:
metro john
When: 27 Jun 15 21:32
Hmmmm, if Free Eagle misses Aloft very much of interest at the prices.(anyway)
By:
sintonian
When: 28 Jun 15 05:32
So you cannot make  a book around those 2 MJ.

The decision was made quick re JH because they must know he's in need of a break. 4 runs in 8 weeks.
By:
metro john
When: 28 Jun 15 06:09
Hi Sintonian, I used the wrong expression, but my betting on the raced will be based on those two, I am glad Mr Gosden is so clear with his plans for his horses, it is a rare breath of fresh air, and he knows his horses better than me or anyone. I also enjoyed his self policing comments about the argy bargy in that race.Do people expect him too smile and say nothing?
By:
sageform
When: 28 Jun 15 12:42
4 races is enough for a big 3yo colt and if they hope to have a horse for the Arc, he needs a break. If golden Horn gets a near walkover in the Eclipse, I suppose they might consider the KG for him.
By:
metro john
When: 29 Jun 15 17:54
The KG looks easier than the Eclipse, I suppose they are proving versatility of trip in Group1 class,and unfortunately too many avoiding GH.
By:
sintonian
When: 02 Jul 15 19:21
The Princess of Wales Stakes at Newmarket next week is interesting as it has several horses entered that are also in the King George,... Telescope, Eagle Top...it will be interesting to see if the trainers opt the bigger pot at Ascot or try and pick up an '' easier'' group 2. I hope Telescope goes to Newmarket as I can't see him winning the KG now!
By:
Millerracing67
When: 03 Jul 15 12:53
Telescope did run well below par at Royal Ascot, not read anything that came to light for that??
Think they (strangely imo) blamed the fast ground Confused??  always had him down as a 12f fast ground horse myself.
By:
sintonian
When: 03 Jul 15 18:13
Well Stoutey has decided not to run him at Newmarket and runs Hillstar & Gospel Choir instead. He must feel Telescope was not himself last time. Eagle top runs at Newmarket too so watch your bets for the King george at this stage..
By:
sageform
When: 04 Jul 15 07:51
Did Stoute mention plans for Snow Sky?
By:
Millerracing67
When: 04 Jul 15 08:28
Would be fairly certain it will be the KG after his Ascot showing.
Stoute as we know not very forthcoming at telling the media any of his plans.
By:
Millerracing67
When: 04 Jul 15 08:49
All the £££ on here is for Golden Horn Shocked 2.9 now.
Don't think this is the plan for him, unless i have missed something in the racing press??
Would have thought after 2days race it would then be onto the Juddmonte at York next month.
Had a little bit of the 11.5 about Postponed on here, am sure that last run did not see him at his best with all the jockey madness early in the race Crazy In a true run race on fast ground (providing Golden Horn or Jack Hobbs) don't turn-up, he has a gd chance in an open race.
By:
A_T
When: 04 Jul 15 14:26
I would think GH would be likely for the KG if the Eclipse goes OK. They have said JH will miss the KG - which makes no sense putting all their eggs in the Arc basket - the participation of his stablemate would seem the only reason to miss Ascot.
By:
brain dead jockeys
When: 04 Jul 15 15:37
if neither jack hobbs or golden horn turn up for the king george then its crazy stuff. a bunch of moderate group 2 and group 3 horses will contest britains most important all aged race
By:
Navel-Gazer
When: 04 Jul 15 19:35
BDJ - that's why I started the thread mate...hoping someone 'connected' reads this thread Happy

If Golden Horn swerves this, I think maybe it's time to step The Grey Gatsby up in trip (as Millerracing67 stated) as he finishes off his races well and looks like he's got every chance of staying - I thought he ran a great race today despite ultimately being outclassed.
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