Horse Antepost
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I had a go at doing this a few years ago and although I didn't get the winner (or places) one of my shortlist finished 6th from memory (Mars) and another finished 10th (Festive Cheer) so I did manage to get a run and plenty of fun tracking them through their 2yo and early 3yo careers. I had the winner (Ruler Of The World) in a long list but eliminated it for some daft reason.
Again I am going to concentrate on the Aidan O'Brien horses which cuts it down to 64.
From these I've removed any horse who does not have Galileo, Montjeu, Sadlers Wells, Kingmambo or Green Desert in their viewable 'free' profile, which cuts it down by 11 to 53 (52 don't have names yet!)
1 00a Z Warrior 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
2 00airwave 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
3 00another Storm 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
4 00apticanti 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
5 00artistique 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
6 00ask For The Moon 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
7 00banquise 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
8 00bonheur 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
9 00cherry Hinton 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
10 00chintz 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
11 00christmas Kid 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
12 00circle Of Life 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
13 00dame Again 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
14 00dance For Fun 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
15 00devoted To You 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
16 00ecology 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
17 00famous 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
18 00flirtation 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
19 00golden Dancer 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
20 00halland Park Lass 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
21 00honorlina 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
22 00hveger 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
23 00ideal 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
24 00imagine 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
25 00inca Princess 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
26 00lady Icarus 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
27 00lahinch 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
28 00leonia 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
29 00liscanna 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
30 00moonstone 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
31 00moving Diamonds 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
32 00mubkera 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
33 00mythical Echo 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
34 00one Moment In Time 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
35 00penang Pearl 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
36 00penny Post 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
37 00perihelion 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
38 00pipalong 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
39 00rags To Riches 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
40 00remember When 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
41 00rimth 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
42 00rumplestiltskin 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
43 00scribonia 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
44 00seatone 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
45 00secret Garden 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
46 00sharp Lisa 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
47 00sumora 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
48 00tarbela 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
49 00treasure Trail 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
50 00walklikeanegyptian 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
51 00walzerkoenigin 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
52 00wonder Of Wonders 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
53 Altissimo 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
Next step is to look at the Dosage Profiles
These are the highest and lowest Dosage scores for any Derby winner for the last 11 years
Brilliant: Low 1: High 9
Intermediate: Low 0: High 4
Classic: Low 5: High 21
Solid: Low 0: High 8
Professional: Low 0: High 3
Dosage Index: Low 0.54: High 3
Centre Of Distribution: Low -0.50: High 0.81
Intermediate/Classic/Solid (ICS) total: Low 6: High 29
Total Dosage Total: Low 10: High 38
Remove any that are not within these ranges (will continue tomorrow.....)
Again I am going to concentrate on the Aidan O'Brien horses which cuts it down to 64.
From these I've removed any horse who does not have Galileo, Montjeu, Sadlers Wells, Kingmambo or Green Desert in their viewable 'free' profile, which cuts it down by 11 to 53 (52 don't have names yet!)
1 00a Z Warrior 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
2 00airwave 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
3 00another Storm 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
4 00apticanti 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
5 00artistique 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
6 00ask For The Moon 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
7 00banquise 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
8 00bonheur 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
9 00cherry Hinton 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
10 00chintz 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
11 00christmas Kid 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
12 00circle Of Life 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
13 00dame Again 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
14 00dance For Fun 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
15 00devoted To You 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
16 00ecology 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
17 00famous 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
18 00flirtation 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
19 00golden Dancer 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
20 00halland Park Lass 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
21 00honorlina 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
22 00hveger 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
23 00ideal 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
24 00imagine 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
25 00inca Princess 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
26 00lady Icarus 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
27 00lahinch 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
28 00leonia 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
29 00liscanna 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
30 00moonstone 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
31 00moving Diamonds 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
32 00mubkera 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
33 00mythical Echo 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
34 00one Moment In Time 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
35 00penang Pearl 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
36 00penny Post 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
37 00perihelion 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
38 00pipalong 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
39 00rags To Riches 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
40 00remember When 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
41 00rimth 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
42 00rumplestiltskin 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
43 00scribonia 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
44 00seatone 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
45 00secret Garden 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
46 00sharp Lisa 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
47 00sumora 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
48 00tarbela 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
49 00treasure Trail 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
50 00walklikeanegyptian 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
51 00walzerkoenigin 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
52 00wonder Of Wonders 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
53 Altissimo 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — —
Next step is to look at the Dosage Profiles
These are the highest and lowest Dosage scores for any Derby winner for the last 11 years
Brilliant: Low 1: High 9
Intermediate: Low 0: High 4
Classic: Low 5: High 21
Solid: Low 0: High 8
Professional: Low 0: High 3
Dosage Index: Low 0.54: High 3
Centre Of Distribution: Low -0.50: High 0.81
Intermediate/Classic/Solid (ICS) total: Low 6: High 29
Total Dosage Total: Low 10: High 38
Remove any that are not within these ranges (will continue tomorrow.....)
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There are 15 eliminated based on the above:
00another Storm 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (6) 00apticanti 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Classic, Solid, ICS and Total all too high 00bonheur 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Brilliant (10), Intermediate (6) too high 00cherry Hinton 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (5) 00ecology 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (6) 00honorlina 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Solid is too high (12) 00imagine 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (5) 00lady Icarus 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Solid is too high (9) 00leonia 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Professional is too high (4) 00liscanna 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (5) 00moving Diamonds 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Solid is too high, DI too low,ICS too high 00rags To Riches 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (5) 00seatone 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Solid is too high (13), ICS too high (35) 00sumora 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate is too high (6) 00treasure Trail 3 9-0 A P O´Brien — — — Intermediate too high (11), ICS too high 32 Which leaves 38. More to follow........ |
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Remove those which are the furthest away from the 'Adjusted Average' (the average of the last 11 winners minus any abnormal figures i.e for Brilliant 3,9,6,4,7,5,5,4,1,8,4 the two abnormalities were:- 9 (Ruler Of The World) and the 1 (Sir Ivor), these were removed to basis the average on 9 winners)
ADJ AVERAGE 5 1 13 6 1 (1.12) (0.19) 18.875 24.375 This eliminates nine horses: Brilliant: 00rumplestiltskin, 00walzerkoenigin (both 8) Intermediate: 00a Z Warrior, 00airwave, 00golden Dancer, 00penny Post, 00perihelion (all 4) Classic: 00artistique (7) Solid: None different to the above Professional: None different to the above DI: None different to the above CD: None different to the above ICS: 00wonder Of Wonders Total: None different to the above This leaves 29 horses More to follow............ |
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Again using the adjusted averages remove those who are more than 1 either side of the average for B,I,C,S,P i.e for Brilliant the 'Adjusted Average' is 5, so 4,5,6 are ok but 3 isn't and 6 isn't. This time it needs two eliminations from each criteria to eliminate completely.
This removes 18: 00ask For The Moon - Classic and Solid 00chintz - Classic and Solid 00dame Again - Intermediate and Solid 00dance For Fun - Classic and Solid 00devoted To You - Classic and Solid 00famous - Classic and Solid 00flirtation - Classic and Solid 00ideal - Brilliant and Intermediate 00inca Princess - Brilliant, Classic and Solid 00lahinch - Classic and Solid 00moonstone - Brilliant, Classic and Solid 00mythical Echo - Brilliant and Classic 00pipalong - Brilliant, Classic and Solid 00remember When - Classic and Solid 00rimth - Brilliant, Classic and Solid 00secret Garden - Classic and Solid 00tarbela - Intermediate and Classic Altissimo - Classic and Solid This leaves eleven, so one to remove to find a top 10. Hold on, I'll find a way  ...... |
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Using the 'real averages' for B,I,C,S,P of 5,1,12,4,1 there were two horses who did not finish 'one either side' and both were for Classic and Solid.
00penang Pearl 00halland Park Lass So both these are eliminated, leaving just 9 horses left. All these nine I am going to track and will 'name' them once their names are known. The nine tracked horses are..... 00banquise 00christmas Kid 00circle Of Life 00hveger 00mubkera 00one Moment In Time 00scribonia 00sharp Lisa 00walklikeanegyptian All these horses are by Galileo, so I'm going to look at the record of the broodmares.......... |
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00banquise - WON a 2m 6k handicap on Good in France
00christmas Kid - WON an 8f £158k Grade 1 Fillies race on fast Polytrack in the States 00circle Of Life - WON a 7f £72k Grade 1 Fillies race on fast Dirt in the States 00hveger - 3rd of 20 in a 10f £69k Grade 1 Fillies race on good in Australia (Schweppes Oaks) 00mubkera - 2nd of 13 in a 10f £16k listed Fillies race on Gd/Fm at Brighton 00one Moment In Time - Unraced 00scribonia - Unraced 00sharp Lisa - WON an 8f £78k Grade 1 Fillies race on fast Dirt in the States 00walklikeanegyptian - WON a 5f £5k Nursery on Gd/FM at Folkestone Of those, the 5 mares with the best form are: 00christmas Kid 00sharp Lisa 00circle Of Life 00hveger 00mubkera The dams broodmare records are as follows: 00christmas Kid - best offspring Michaelmas, 2nd in a Group 3 7f 31k 2yo race in Ireland(OR = 103) 00sharp Lisa - best offspring Unanimous, WON a 5k 8f Maiden on Soft in Ireland (OR = 92) 00circle Of Life - best offspring Circular Quay, WON 2x Grade 2's and 1x Grade 3 in the States 00hveger - best offspring is Highland Reel, 3rd favourite for this year's Derby, full brother to 00hveger 00mubkera - best offspring is Green Destiny, WON the £28k Group 3 Arc trial at Newbury (OR = 119) Selections: 1st - 00hveger 2nd - 00circle Of Life 3rd - Mubkera Easy sometimes this racing lark!  |
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00Mubkera
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Anybody willing to give me 100/1 on those 3 horses for £2 stakes?
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Shrews I'll give you £200 if any of them wins, assuming I'm alive at the time.
In the meantime I might ruin your thread by putting up my selection. Like you I take a systems approach to racing. I might take a while to come up with a nag for the 2016 Derby. Keep posting. I like this stuff. |
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All the merrier mate, it adds a bit of fun post-Cheltenham IMO. I like to track these horses, it gives me some sort of connection to them. Perhaps one day AOB will give me one of them for free. I'll run him in the Derby and in the following years Triumph Hurdle
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Just searched for some sales info with regards to Galileo x Hveger and found this:
http://live.racingpost.com/Event/Tatts_Oct_9 Lot 327: b c Galileo - Hveger (Danehill) Will join his brother Highland Reel under the Coolmore umbrella after selling for 775,000gns out of the Camas Park Stud consignment to MV Magnier. He boasts a dual hemisphere pedigree as the son of the Australian-bred Hveger, who ran third in the Australasian Oaks. She is out of the AJC Oaks heroine Circles Of Gold and a half-sister to the top-class pair Elvstroem and Haradasun. The latter was campaigned by Coolmore to win the Queen Anne Stakes at Royal Ascot and up until recently stood for the operation in Australia. In addition to Highland Reel, who is a general 10/1 shot for next year's Derby off the back of an impressive win in the Vintage Stakes for Aidan O'Brien in August, Hveger is also the dam of Valdemoro (by Encosta De Lago), who has been Group 1-placed in Australia. |
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when the Galileo x Hveger has been named post it on here...ta.
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My picks for Derby 2016
1. “Phidian”............................. by Galileo out of Divine Proportions by Kingmambo (P Bary) 2. “00 multicolour Wave” ........by Shamardal out of Multicolour Wave by Rainbow Quest (John Gosden) 3. “00 aqaarid” ........................by Sir Percy out of Aqaarid by Nashwan (David Lanigan) |
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Galileo x Kind trained by Andre Fabre. 66/1 Baldies and Race Bets.
Don't say I didn't tell you. |
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Galileo x Kind = Frankel !!!!!
Never raced over 12f, but that's not to say his younger full-brother won't. You sure he's with Andre Fabre as the RP says 'trainer unknown'? 66/1 for Frankel2 in the 2016 Derby, might be worth a little punt! |
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Do you think Kind's children have proven to be better over 10 furlongs rather than 12? I know it shows a 1 for the Grand Prix De Saint Cloud last year but that is only because the winner was subsequently disqualified and NM had nothing left in the tank. His record over 12 furlongs was 2142341421 (3 from 10) and not including the original 2nd place being promoted to first which would have made it 2 from 10 but his 10 furlong record was 1234111121 (6 from 10) if if you exclude runs outside UK and Ire it was 12311111. Bullet Train won the Lingfield Derby trial in a week race but then was last of 12 in the Derby and well beaten in the King Edward VII. Would Frankel of stayed a mile and a half? Henry Cecil didn't seem to think he would at 3 years of age but maybe that was because he struggled to settle early in his career. If I was picking him for any race at this stage it would be the Prix Du Jockey Club.
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@ Shrews - I read the bit about Fabre on the Racebets website. They'll probably void my bet if it wins the Derby
and is trained by O'Brien  |
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That's just silly. It's 'trainer unknown' according to the RP. Surely they're taking that into account when pricing up the bet as you're taking it into account by reading the RP. Take a screenshot of the RP and send it to them.
Their price is surely based on 'trainer unknown'? |
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Had a bit of the 66's myself as well. Teddy Grimthorpe said he would be trained by Fabre last December.
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I'm prepared to be surprised. For a bet this small I'm just paying to have "one to follow".
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I've just read that back, so just for clarification I did mean Racebets would be silly rather than your good self! It's 'unknown' on the RP site (take a screenshot). They can't void a bet based on who they think might be the trainer or they'd have to void every bet (unless of course the horse trains itself and still turns up 'unknown' on the day)
They having got a prayer of voiding it! |
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Shrews - I was joking (I hope).
I don't have a very high opinion of bookies, but I don't think they'd do that. Recently I spotted a very decent arb on a European football match. It wasn't on obscure teams - a big Spanish league game. I contacted the bookie and asked if all the prices were good and they said yes. I had a tentative bet and they took it. I had another and they took it. I waited a day and had another, and they took it. Meanwhile I arbed each one on here. Then I got nervous, so I rang 'em up and said, "Is this price still good?" and they voided ALL my bets. Luckily I was able to straighten my book on here, but I was spitting bullets. S p o r t i n g B e t |
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Bookies running scared as far as horse racing goes?
Maybe. Let's face it the internet/information age has made it more of an equal standing, twenty years ago all we had was the form pages in the tabloids! However, nowadays the bookies casino's are coining it to make up for it!! And virtual racing, some people still actually bet on it  Back to the thread, one of my nine tracked horses has been named! 00walklikeanegyptian (Galileo) - is now called Deauville |
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00hveger has now been named as Idaho
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There's been a purge on the naming front, with just two of my nine tracked horses to be named (best three in bold)
00banquise - now called New Millenium 00christmas Kid - now called Black Sea 00circle Of Life 00hveger - now called Idaho 00mubkera - now called A Year To Remember 00one Moment In Time 00scribonia - now called The Major General 00sharp Lisa - now called Houses Of Parliament 00walklikeanegyptian - now called Deauville |
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Update on my 9 'tracked' horses:
00OneMomentInTime is now called Unicorn 00Circleoflife is still to be named A Year To Remember Black Sea Deauville Houses Of Parliament Idaho New Millenium The Major General Unicorn Deauville won the 2.40 Listowel today over 7f @ 6/4 |
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TTT - Shrews - are you there?
Current fav with the books is Sanus Per Aquam (IRE) which has been beaten by the above-mentioned Deauville. |
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Galileo x Kind is now called Proconsul
Where's Shrews? Hope he hasn't shuffled untimely off this mortal coil. Can I have his AP vouchers, please Mrs Shrews? |
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It's been a while since Fabre won the 2000gns. I wonder if he'd fancy a crack with Frankel's brother?
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I think if you know you've got something special you've got to go to Newmarket. It's THE Guineas. I suspect Fabre believes that, and he would probably be directed that way by the owner anyway, if the horse was deemed special. Proconsul eh? That's really not an especially inspiring name is it?
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any thoughts on Foundation's prospects of being a derby horse?
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Foundation ran really well and won easily ,but its that time of year where you can get funny ground ,soft , dead and sticky and prob a little bit of good in there some where as well .In laymans term's , i don't trust form on that weird sort of ground ,some go on it ,few like it ,and most don't go on it or like it
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What to make of Foundation and his breeding?
Was certainly impressive today. |
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The colt out of Hveger is called Idaho and won very nicely on debut at the Currgah yesterday - hope you got a good price.
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So just a revisit on this one as the big day approaches. Of the nine tracked horses just two remain, Idaho (Galileo x Hveger) and Deauville (Galileo x Walklikeanegyptian).
Idaho was my number one horse, so I'm sticking with that and 33's or so still available on here. |
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What about Us Army Ranger and Port Douglas? They are by Galileo/Moonstone and Galileo/Walzerkoenigin respectively.
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(Shrews - great thread but do have a saver on Dermot Welds Harzand who beat your horse fair and square in the Ballysax. Although as little as 30 or so on here on the whole Harzands an 'under the radar horse' whos relatives have shown definite Summer ground proclivities).
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What about Us Army Ranger and Port Douglas? They are by Galileo/Moonstone and Galileo/Walzerkoenigin respectively.
Port Douglas = eliminated at the 38 down to 29 stage US Army Ranger - eliminated at the 29 down to 11 stage Harzand - not by Galileo or trained by AOB so I wouldn't consider that one, and although Golden Horn wasn't an AOB horse,he was a special animal and I'm expecting it to be business as usual for AOB this time. |
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Shrews
Thank-you. Connections of Harzand has voiced preference for the Irish Derby and the St Leger. |
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From todays Irish Times ...
“We will review things closer to the time and see what the weather is doing and what the ground is like before making a definite decision. But there is a distinct possibility Harzand will run,” said the Curragh trainer who has famously yet to add the Derby to his illustrious CV. |