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16 Mar 15 17:33
Date Joined: 28 May 03
| Topic/replies: 711 | Blogger: Scuttler's blog
Has anyone seen this beast or heard if it has done any work recently, etc, etc? Guineas just over seven weeks away.
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Report sinfin March 16, 2015 5:49 PM GMT
very strong on ere at moment so maybe all systems go i hope
Report mrglovesthosetins March 18, 2015 7:19 PM GMT
Im on it @ 25/1 - would like the same info if anyone has an clue/idea - thanks in advance.
Report Scuttler March 19, 2015 7:02 PM GMT
Cheers for the replies. Finally seeing money for it. Although Gleneagles been smashed up last 24 hours.
Report mrglovesthosetins March 30, 2015 10:10 AM BST
Money appearing now Happy
Report brain dead jockeys April 2, 2015 8:22 PM BST
if you take his form literally, he wins. i dont like his sire,.........must be teh most overrated in the history of racing
Report sintonian April 2, 2015 8:34 PM BST
Starts out in the free handicap.
Report Spock April 2, 2015 11:23 PM BST
Most promising entry I have seen - just wonder about Faydhan's action: if he starts off @ Newmarket, I would hazard a guess that Mr Gosden is too, as he is big (probably bigger now) and of course that could catch him out at HQ.

Personally, I think Mr G has a really strong say in this year's colts classics, as Christophermarlowe could be very special, and I have backed him for the Derby. Maybe one part of the conx will plump for a different objective as they have so many options, but Mr G doesn't send 2yos to Epsom, so one would believe with this one, it was for a good reason.

Good luck all
Report Shrews April 4, 2015 1:24 AM BST
Said it before, I will say it again "Gosden does not win The Guineas" Last year he had the best miler he has probably had(Kingman) and he still got beat. Exceptional trainer, exceptional horses, but they are just not ready or targetted for The Guineas. 

However, AOB and the Hannon camp.......

Gosden did win the 1000 once, fifteen years ago, so as a disclaimer I will say he's overdue a 2000 win!
Report sintonian April 4, 2015 6:08 AM BST
The ride got him beat that day Shrews.
Report Paterson92 April 4, 2015 10:07 AM BST
Stats are there to be broken. Faydhan was green as grass on his debut and still left Dutch Connection for dead when finally getting to grips with the job in hand. Tie that in with Dutch Connection's form against Gleneagles and surely Faydhan won't be far away. I expect a fair amount of improvement in him also.
Report Try My Best April 4, 2015 4:35 PM BST
Think Gosden will be right up for it come Guineas day. Looked shellshocked in the paddock when Ravens Pass got beat and the same last year. Both horses got poor rides imo and I think he will be trying very hard to break his hoodoo.
Report Figgis April 4, 2015 5:45 PM BST
My own view of Gosden's lack of Guineas success is primarily that he hasn't had many good enough and the two that were Guineas class had poor preparations. With Ravens Pass he was probably unlucky in coming up against Twice Over on a very good day, both horses pulling clear in a fast time and doing battle, hardly the ideal scenario for a prep with the big race only just over two weeks away. In any case, I believe even if Ravens Pass had run to form in that year's Guineas he'd have been beaten by the first two, as it was later in the year that RP really peaked.

With Kingman I take a different view to the more popular one of blaming the jockey, I thought it was trainer error. In my view in the Greenham Kingman had to be 100% fit despite Gosden saying otherwise, the time performance he clocked was as good as anything he ever achieved and it was a big mistake to let the horse run so fast so close to the big race. Gosden should either have left a bit more to work on or advised Doyle to win as snugly as possible.
Report smido25 April 9, 2015 9:46 PM BST
Spock, good shout Christophermarlowe but as you eluded to there could be a big ownership clash as Gosden also has Faydhan for Hamdan and more significantly Richard Pankhurst for the boys in blue, obviously the latter unlikely to stay 12f.
Report smido25 April 9, 2015 9:48 PM BST
Talking of Gosdon disappointment. I was at Nottingham yesterday and he looked livid when his second string beat Forever Now in the Further Flight Stakes. Didn't even congratulate Havlin straight away and went over to Hughes who had just been beaten at odds on. Said well done to John and he replied "yes but it was the wrong one."
Report Fashion Fever April 11, 2015 9:46 PM BST
absolute surt off 102 in the free hcap
Report Howellsy April 11, 2015 9:52 PM BST
But why run in that race? If 7f is the requirement, go for the Greenham! Danger free handicap will cut up with nobody wanting to get stuffed by a handicap blot, so will not get decent competitive experience. Does anyone else see this entry as a sign of insecurity? If he's the Guineas winner, why avoid Greenham? As we've seen, you can lose in the Greenham and win the Guineas. Competitive race required!
Report Millerracing67 April 11, 2015 10:23 PM BST
Prob to gain experience of the track & not race against to many of the gd ones 1st time out. He also has Richard Pankhurst to run in one of the trials.
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 12:52 AM BST
Hi Howellsy, Gosden's best two Guineas contenders from the past, Raven's Pass and Kingman, ran big performances in the Craven and Greenham respectively before disappointing on the big day. Personally I don't believe that's the ideal prep for a Guineas just over two weeks away. After last year's result maybe Gosden is also coming around to that way of thinking? It seems O'Brien doesn't even consider giving his 2000 contenders a prep these days. Bolger, Oxx and Huffer were others who succeeded in recent years without running in a trial. For me, Gosden is just as capable of getting one ready without a prep but I think with him it's just a case of habit, similar to Hannon and Cecil whose runners succeeded after trials. It's understandable that after only one run he feels Faydhan needs more experience (although it's been proved twice before that it can be won with a horse that's only raced once). My view is that they're doing the right thing by taking the easiest option available to gain that experience and I don't see it as a lack of confidence.
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 12:58 AM BST
Sorry, I think it's probably only been won once before by a horse raced once, Golan, I was also thinking of Doyoun but he raced twice.
Report metro john April 15, 2015 10:25 AM BST
The fact is that he has been given an unbelievably lenient mark of 102, why not use it? there is little between the top horses in the UK,and plenty can be given chances for the Guineas?, today is a great day for the non believers in pedigree,we have Faydan out of an unknown, and Beautiful Romance who s Dam was useless, and both of these could be fav for their respective classics after today?
Report Millerracing67 April 15, 2015 12:09 PM BST
Dont really go into the so called "stats" of trainers of this classic or that one myself. Jonny G is a top notch trainer & was prob a bit unlucky not to win last yrs 2000gns with Kingman, due to certain reasons on the day & poss before, which am not going to get involved with now, its past history.
Faydhan looked a very smart maiden winner last yr & hammered a smart one in Dutch Connection that day by 6Ls. He is a very exciting 3yo colt (Faydhan) & will hopefully go some way to showing that more 2day. A must on any list of 2000gns poss winners this yr.
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 3:30 PM BST
8/15 shots don't make up too much of my betting but I'd make him much shorter here, he really should be spitting these out so had to strike a bet.
Report geoff m April 15, 2015 3:39 PM BST
Very dissapointing .Should have picked those up and carried em.
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 3:39 PM BST
Howellsy, looks like you were onto something after all. It appears he's gone backwards since the injury. Obviously he can't be written off after one poor run but I saw nothing at all to be encouraged by with that showing, against what was a field of mediocrities.
Report cryoftruth April 15, 2015 3:46 PM BST
I backed him at 16/1 for the 2000 Guineas such was the hype.

Hayodck maiden winners at 16/1 for the 2000 Guineas.

What a chump I was; but not alone by the state his price was pre race today.

Looked useless to me anyway.
Report cryoftruth April 15, 2015 4:02 PM BST
Mind you Home Of The Brave I really do like! He is certainly going to like the step up to a mile and had these slaughtered from quite well out.
Report roadrunner46 April 15, 2015 4:11 PM BST
well the horse has been recognized by the speed figure specialists as highly regarded, ive never liked the
pedigree, is todays run really so bad, thought JG wanted to give the horse a gentle preparation this year
and some experience before the big day, doesnt look good at the moment for its chances.
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 4:25 PM BST
If Faydhan had simply blown up late on or got a bit outpaced when the tempo lifted then maybe the run could be excused. However, to my eyes he was being niggled by Hanagan virtually from the off in rear just to keep pace with the rest. A very poor performance against horses of that ability. Whether he was ever Guineas class is debatable but he still should've been more competitive today. Possibly he'll improve given more time but there was nothing there to be encouraged about him in the very near future. He could just be another 2yo that doesn't go on at 3, Jungle Cat was another that ran below his best 2yo form. I said previously that it looked a poor Guineas on the form shown so far, but I'd still be amazed if Home of the Brave is capable of winning even a moderate Guineas.
Report cryoftruth April 15, 2015 4:27 PM BST
Remember Mystiko?
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 4:38 PM BST
Yes, cryoftruth, I remember him, I'm not claiming I backed him, don't think I had a bet in the race that year, but from memory Mystiko was a bit more impressive, putting some distance between himself and his rivals. Also his time, while not be anything special, was quite fair. Today's form looks well short of that to me.
Report cryoftruth April 15, 2015 4:55 PM BST
I dare say you are right; I had an each way bet on Mystiko I remember it well, a biggish grey Clive B horse that ran poorly anywhere else but HQ.

I am just not thatbtaken with this year's Guineas field. I like Ol Man River and Zawrak but they do look likely to be better over further. Gleneagles looks like a miler but he is only rated 114 with Timeform (no "p" for improver). People see to think Ivawood can't stay (although I disagree with that as he is bred to stay a mile alright). Belardo may need soft going and was not a brilliant 2YO. Highland Reel may need further although I do prefer him to Gleneagles. Elm Park looks sure to need further and I am not sure he is that brilliant either.

I say people or someone was happy to back Zawraq with me at about 16 just now. His owner may be more likely to send him to HQ now with that Fadhan being well stuffed.

Home Of The Brave won okay off 102 today and should improve a bit for the extra distance (out of a Beat Hollow mare); he may also improve for the trip. Let's guess a bit and say he ran about 6 lbs above his handicap mark to win like that today. That makes him 108 with improvement to come maybe. Gleneagles is 3/1 with a Timeform rating of 114 (no p). Its not impossible to see Home Of The Brave running 116+ is it? That is 2lbs higher than Gleneagles has ever run and he may not be spot on with Aidens horses seeming to be as backwards as usual this time of year. If its a poor Guineas???????

and Gleneagles is as I say 3/1. Home of The Brave is 60 on here. Gleneagles does have a better chance of course but maybe not by 57 points or 2000%!!
Report Figgis April 15, 2015 5:19 PM BST
Yes, you are right about the price difference in what at the moment looks a below par renewal. I'm certainly not saying he can't win, especially in a year where I can't see anything that looks even close to typical Guineas class.
Report Millerracing67 April 15, 2015 5:57 PM BST
It was a poor showing from Faydhan 2day, he never looked likely to win at any stage of the race. Its was a very steadily run affair & the winner looked ready to roll on the day, but the fav never really look happy to me at anytime Plain Not looking at his breeding u would think he was not letting himself down on the fast ground 2day, but being by War Front he should be fine on it?? Be interested to hear what the jockey & trainer have to say about it later. Whatever way we look at it (unless something comes to light with a prob) it was a poor first effort of the season for one rated so highly.
Report Howellsy April 15, 2015 6:37 PM BST
Hi Figgis, I certainly didn't lay Faydhan either today or for the Guineas; like you, I thought he was almost impossible to oppose today, so can't claim it was anything more than a hunch, a talking point. Was extremely disappointed in his performance and saw very little promise in it for the near future.
Report metro john April 15, 2015 6:56 PM BST
Ground was the biggest factor too defeat today, the Guineas is the most open I can remember, would be a disappointment if the french or Germans don't send a few raiders for what could be easy prize-money? Not sure any are entered mind ,will have a closer look now. OMR chance gets stronger but I question all of the UK form.
Report metro john April 15, 2015 7:05 PM BST
Tale Of Life is interesting, but won on a soft surface, the form gotta solid look to it, albeit not really Group1 standard, not sure they will have too be to win this years 2000?
Report metro john April 15, 2015 7:29 PM BST
Moheet at 22/1+ looks reasonable(very much underrated in the bigger picture} , Tale Of life at 50s+(in the offices) quite good value if you know he gonna turn up? both would like a few days worth of rain, the first named may not!
Report cryoftruth April 15, 2015 8:28 PM BST
Yes Moheet is a promising sort, apparently a big strong brute like his sire.
Report lingbleed April 15, 2015 11:45 PM BST
i know its being said before ,but does this not make gleneagles chance's of winning even better ,surely this horse has never got the credit it should off .best of a bad bunch or not ,quite simpley is still the best .i heard john gosden once say that the 2000g is the last 2 yr old race of the season .plus has gleneagles ever been fully tested .Vincent o brien once said that if u think u have two derby horse's and can't pick which is better ,it more likely u have no derby horse .is this maybe a case  at ballydoyle this year .
Report Spock April 16, 2015 2:45 AM BST
I didnt think he ran a bad race - the winner was allowed to dictate, and looked very lean, as all of the trainers runners looked today.

Faydhan was ridden for a burst and whether it was the course, or whether it was his condition, only the conx will know.

But take this one on board - Mr Gosden has started the last few seasons like a scolded cat, and this year, I reckon, he is leaving a bit more to work on - my belief is, that wherever this one turns up next, we will see a proper representation

Report Figgis April 18, 2015 12:29 PM BST
I said in my last post I'd not seen anything close to Guineas class, which was wrong, as Ivawood was my top rated 2yo last year and I have him already running close to a potential Guineas winning mark. The nagging doubt with him is his stamina for the mile. Hopefully the Greenham today will provide more clues. Trainer and jockey have been talking up his mile prospects so it will be interesting to see how effectively they've managed to get him switched off. Two of their strongly fancied Guineas runners in recent years, Toronado and Canford Cliffs, raced prominent and keenly in their trials and that didn't really prepare them well for the demands of the Guineas. If Ivawood trains on and gets the 7f I can't see him being beaten by today's field but will just be watching at the price, as Night of Thunder needed this race last year to bring him on.
Report Figgis April 18, 2015 12:49 PM BST
Just heard an opinion on RUK that Ivawood should get the mile but will need to improve to beat what O'Brien has to offer, which is interesting as I have Ivawood a full stone higher than Gleneagles.
Report roadrunner46 April 18, 2015 1:35 PM BST
looking at only the profiles, gleneagles has better looking profile for the guineas then ivawood IMO, the latter is a trailblazer for zebeedee, that stallion is still an unknown qauntity. interesting race for
different reasons this year.
Report Figgis April 18, 2015 3:01 PM BST
Like Tiggy Wiggy, Ivawood was never going to win even over 6f today. Nevertheless, even if he comes on for today he raced very much like a non stayer to me.
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