Charlie Hall Chase

The two I like at this stage is the first and 2nd last year... Harry Topper and WAYWARD Prince 14/1 and 33/1 repectively... Some horses have bigger fish to fry later in the season and may be using this as a prep run... whereas for some its their Gold Cup... WAYWARD PRINCE is the value each way as he has come second in the last 2 years...

I love Harry Topper but I don't think he's going to get his ground is he?

Initial thoughts are that price discrepancy between Conti and First Lieutenant is too big given the latter's consistency and the fact that some of the Nicholls inmates have been needing the run (I think I read that at least part of the thinking behind running here was to put Conti spot on for the Betfair Chase). FL might go to Down Royal I suppose but the forecast suggests the ground at Wetherby will be right up his street.

The other interesting one is Menorah based on stable form, ground and his rejuvenated run at Sandown at the end of last season, trip is possibly a question mark but his run behind FL in last year's Bowl at Aintree suggests it's within his compass.

Agree with Kevin though, will pass at this stage...

think you will see a different TDS here 3 miles on decent ground could be perfect, needed the run badly the other day also Tony back on

cant have SC at all FTO, also worry he looks a prime candidate to fall out of love with the game

FL always entered here and always goes to DR

I would be interested in TDS and agree looked badly in need of the run but I'm not sure decent ground would be perfect, thought his best conditions was always with the mud flying???

agree with iris-will play now in case race cuts up+top up on the day.

barnesy, I thought the same about TDS and that was the reason I left him alone at the Festival, but he seemed to cope with that ok! In fact he has two wins around Cheltenham on Good ground now, as it was like that when he beat Oscar Whisky this time last year.

I think he is actually quite versatile, and if last time has brought him on enough, he looks a big price at 7/1 to me. He is my only bet in the race.

I like FL alot, but he tends to need his first run of the season, and would be surprised if he was fully wound up for this, likewise a few of the other principals.

I backed him for the Neptune in 2013 and he didn't appear to be in love with the ground, so on that basis I also didn't touch him for the JLT!!!!
If he lines up on Saturday then connections obviously feel the same as you CCM about his versatility so 7/1 seems an each way bet to nothing with that run under his belt..... Good luck

i think good ground over 3 would be better for TDS thou agree hes versatile groundwise, still hard to take AP could still change mind and go for patricks race

same to you barnesy.

Bad news for HT backers

HARRY TOPPER, winner of the bet365 Charlie Hall Chase last year, is unlikely to attempt to defend his title on Saturday.

The Kim Bailey-trained seven-year-old was 8-1 with William Hill to record back-to-back wins in the Weatherby race but Bailey said on Tuesday that he looks like missing the race.

"It is unlikely he will run," he said. "I need rain not good ground with watering and without it he will sadly be staying at home.

"He seems better than he was going into the race last year - I haven't seen him as well as he is at the moment."

Bailey will be "scouring" the Irish programme book for opportunities with more likelihood of finding the soft ground Harry Topper needs.

He added: "I entered him for the Hennessy today but that wouldn't be ideal for him but where he goes will be ground dependent."

The going was described as good (watered) on Tuesday morning

Shame about Harry Topper... but yes he needs that rain...

on a side note... why dod he declare him on Monday then? Makes you wonder... and Korals were 14 so they knew... Hills 8's

The stable cat must make a nice few quid laying the non runners....

Apparently it's rained a fair bit today, so you never know re Harry Topper.  Remember also this is a conditions race. FL will get 10lbs off some of these and is well in.  Take a look at the weights


NO.    HORSE    AGE    WGT    TRAINER RTF%    JOCKEY    OR    TS    RPR
1    1331P-    Harry Topper231      7    11-10    Kim Bailey20        161    162    174
2    P051-    Menorah156F    9    11-10    Philip Hobbs82        165    113    176
3    3141-    Silviniaco Conti212      8    11-10    Paul Nicholls68    Noel Fehily    174    151    183
4    7U513-    The Giant Bolster232      9    11-10    David Bridgwater50        164    146    174
5    1235-B    Double Ross22    8    11-6    Nigel Twiston-Davies69        152    152    167
6    3211-3    Taquin Du Seuil22    7    11-5    Jonjo O´Neill30        159    140    173
7    P3344-    Ballypatrick202      8    11-0    Mick Channon        120    138    146
8    4234-2    First Lieutenant185      9    11-0    M F Morris67        162    152    179
9    4/48-4    Medermit185    10    11-0    Alan King45    Wayne Hutchinson    156    149    171
10    3/225-    Rocky Creek210      8    11-0    Paul Nicholls68        156    142    178
11    52P7F-    Wayward Prince210      10    11-0    Hilary Parrott    Dougie Costello    142    130    170

^ very good point, I read somewhere they've had 19mm of rain at Down Royal, going is now yielding and FL would likely have to take on likes of On His Own and Boston Bob off level weights.Gigginstown also have three other entries in the race (albeit two of those are entered elsewhere on the same card).

Logic points to First Lieutenant going for this surely?

I'd be surprised if Willie runs both of his, and Mouse Morrise has suggested FL would run in this the last two seasons but never actually has. IF he turns up this time around, take note!!

I agree Sint.  A lot is made of FL poor form first time out, but I just don't see the point and cost of coming from Ireland to have a schooling session.  He might as well stay in Ireland to do that.  If he turns up and the ground is still good(very likely) then he has to be respected with the way the weights are framed.  TDS with the benefit of a run should go close as should SC, but he is being primed for The Betfair in 3 weeks time and is too short of price for me with that in mind.

Ten miles from Wetherby here, barely any rain yesterday and another bright and breezy day today.

I have taken a chance and bet F L on Monday at 5/1 I think its a 2 horse race him and S Conti

I agree that First Lieutenant is the bet here. The horse is the model of consistency, and (in spite of the occasional off day) he generally always runs to a mark of 165. I don't think Silvi Conti's a 175 horse.

My only concern is that he does to tend to need his first race; will he be fit enough?

The absence is a worry but he won on his debut as a 5yr old won 1st time up in 2011 every year he has made his seasonal debut in top races and run to a fair level, in this race we all know he is well in the way the weights are framed and it looks like the going will be good, I don't think he will ever win a gold cup but this is his chance to land a big one just hope he comes over

F L non runner goes to down royal

F L non runner goes to down royal

not happy, mislead again by morris, why say it is going to run in a race and then not turn up especially when its got ground and race conditions in its favour, done my money AGAIN !

Absolutely pathetic... feel sympathy for FL backers looked like he would run... I lost out on HT... glad didnt back FL.

So many ifs an buts regarding other runners... will go with my instinct and back WAYWARD PRINCE at 25/1 each way... (Already backed him at 33s)

But hope this is not a sign to come for the jump season ahead...

They always said they were keeping their options open tbf till they saw weather and never committed to either race

Shocked they aint takin adv of weight concession on sat tho

FL for 3 years now has been well touted for this race

Appearances = 0

Mouse has done the same thing every year, this time around he was a little more circumspect but the last two seasons he said he would run at Wetherby. It is stuff like this that gives rise to cynical views. IMO.

aye ,a got caught with flight of the lieutenant last year

someone else can be 2nd

A difficult race but I have had a sporting wager on Double Ross. He has a few pounds to find but may strip fitter than most. The distance is a problem of course.
If The Giant Bolster goes to a ridiculously big price I will have a shilling on him too. It is not Cheltenham,not soft ground, but he has the best form.

The price wiltell a tale with Bolster I think from memory he drifted like a barge few times last season.

I think the play here will be to lay Silvi if he goes evens or worse.
It's clearly a prep for the Betfair, they thought he would've won last years BF had they got a run into him, so this will be to bring him cherry ripe - he has far bigger fish to fry than this this year. Also, he's a soft ground horse for my money and it'll be like a road, 20C here today and breezy.
I'd rather have the field running for me at the same price.

Taking a chance on Wayward Prince, at least I know he will be primed for this race, some of the others wont be.
Around 20's is fair price imo.
Not going mad though!!

Conti and Taquin maybe too good for the others here but I've taken a chance on Medermit.
Thought he fared quite well in Ireland after a year and a half on the sidelines. Hopefully he will be ready for this and if returning to his best must have a great chance at the weights here.

dissapointed with that svc and tds poor

someone alluded to on one o these threads that slivianco may not "want a battle " may not be too far of the mark ,he may have needed it but nicholls said he has done plenty  he may redeem himself in the betfair and king George but the way he folded was concerning imo, time will tell 1

Was a good run from TDS, was not a strong gallop and he clearly stayed on at the end. I think he'll enjoy the betfair chase with Cue Card making it a proper end to end gallop.

The Gold Cup trip looks ideal for him if it's not too quick ground.

yep, I thought TDS run was encouraging - the winner liked the ground and I suspect his edge in fitness was a little under-emphasized, his best run by far last season was at the end of April, he ran in the Henry II Stakes and they were going to run him in Queen Alexandra but felt the ground was just too quick (he'd be one to watch in that race next year even at the age of 10) - I doubt he's been let down much at all over the summer - the way he took the race was very similar to his stable mate Wishfull Thinking in the Old Roan Chase last week.

I suspect that was his cup final (though they surely should think about a stab at the Betfair themselves if the rain stays away).

The stats suggest Jonjo's have not quite been firing on all cylinders recently so plenty to like about Taquin's performance especially given the concerns his jockey expressed about the going for him beforehand and also the obvious improvement on his effort fto at Newton Abbot.

I liked TDS run, ridden like a horse trying the trip. Could had easily won with a positive ride.

Was at the track today and have not watched the race on TV but from track side SC looked fantastic for 2m6f and just got tired so highlighting the fact he needed the run. His jumping looked great and looked like Noel F  took him out front to get a good look at his fences and have a good day out. SC's season was not about today. TDS looked a complete plodder over 3m to me. Yes he ran on at the end but never looked a threat to win. Was not convinced by TDS over 3m at all. Caveat is I have not watched the race on TV. Cant believe the Gold Cup winner ran in this race today.

I was there also and agree conti jumped fantastic and I thought he would run away from them no excuses he looked fit enough and one or two of nicholls havnt fired but definitely there was no gold cup winner on show

This looked very much like a prep run for SC to put him spot on for the Betfair Chase, where I expect to see a different horse.

you would like to think so but looked fit enough to me I couldn't bet him

Didn't he make quite a significant improvement between first and second runs last season?

Betfair Chase: In touch, headway to track leaders 6 out, every chance before 3 out.

King George: Always prominent, hard driven 3 after 3 out, led approaching last, stayed on strongly.

Turned around the form with Cue Card & Dynaste in the process.

Something to consider, at least.

Didn't he make quite a significant improvement between first and second runs last season?

Betfair Chase: In touch, headway to track leaders 6 out, every chance before 3 out, weakened approaching last.

King George: Always prominent, hard driven 3 after 3 out, led approaching last, stayed on strongly.

Turned around the form with Cue Card & Dynaste in the process.

Something to consider, at least.

Not sure getting smashed by Menorah constitutes a good run myself, re TDS.
Agree re SC, in that he improved massively for his 1st run last season,and I would certainly fancy him to run a big race at Kempton again,where he will be primed.
Don't see the GC as his race though, his chance was last season and I now am fairly confident hes a flat track horse.
Of the others that ran yesterday at Wetherby,dont fancy any of them at all for the GC.
Road to Riches was the most impressive horse I saw this weekend as a possible GC contender, but 3m2f may be a tad too far?

Reading in the RP that the race was possibly run over 2m7.5f, 1.5 short of the correct distance. It was run  whopping 20s faster than last years renewal. Which really is odd as it was a pretty sedate pace for the first lap.

Maybe explains a few things.