Irish Derby.

Backed KH so hoping Australia is pulled out , the Eclipse would have been the best option in my opinion , the draw may be of some importance ,  from an inside draw  KK can get to the front , he had a bit left when Australia  came to him at Epsom  , he needs to have a bit less  this time , more work from six out till two out  may help , an uphill task though.

Eclipse best option for Australia *

Need it to rain.

Cant see Oz being beaten myself.
Granted a g/fast surface he looks home & hosed imo.
Would have preferred to see him go for the Eclipse tho

Why is Australia running here when we told, with absolute certainty, by Brigust that he would skip the Irish Derby??
Anyone who thought they would run their horse in their Derby was told by Brigust, that they knew nothing about horse racing. That they were deluded, thick and could not see how racing works. Even though they always run their derby winners at the Curragh did not mean Australia would head there!!!!!!

So why has Ballydoyle gone against Brigust!!!!!!!!!

Why is Australia running here when we told, with absolute certainty, by Brigust that he would skip the Irish Derby??
Anyone who thought they would run their horse in their Derby was told by Brigust, that they knew nothing about horse racing. That they were deluded, thick and could not see how racing works. Even though they always run their derby winners at the Curragh did not mean Australia would head there!!!!!!

So why has Ballydoyle gone against Brigust!!!!!!!!!

Because Brigust was talking through his pocket, Brandy, and could not bring himself to backtrack on the comments he made before and after Australia's bubble got burst in the Guineas. Even after he won at Epsom he still maintained it was the Eclipse. I don't know why, other than not being able to change his opinion so became stubborn with it. Evidence was there.

I am looking forward to seeing Geoffrey Chaucer again. Clearly that was not his running last time out. Seville ran similarly shocking at Epsom before finishing 2nd at the Curragh.

I fully expect Australia to win but 2/7 is not my kind of price.

GC was clearly their second choice for Epsom judging from the jockey booking and market support and he clearly likes the Curragh so at 20/1+ he's worth a throwaway bet.

If we do get a drop of rain, I think Orchestra, is worth a little ew. All wrong at Epsom clearly, and the Chester form was good, with Romsdal third.

Worth another chance.

horse got very horny before the derby kevin...

maybe worth waiting to see whether these naughty coltish tendencies resurface on saturday in the paddock

Danger of this race descending into farce, imo - Fascinating Rock and Kingston Hill must both be increasingly unlikely runners due to the ground which would leave four AOB inmates and John Oxx's Ponfeigh.

Embarrassing for HRI - the dominance of the major stables on the flat and over jumps is significantly more pronounced than in the EPL, detracts from the competitive element and makes the game less attractive in general.

Bit of rain forecast and 237,500E for 2nd place so i can still see KH going for the Irish Derby.

33/1 Orchestra was too tempting for me . If you forgive him his Epsom skylarking he is value .
Romsdal and Scotland have given his Chester form quite a boost and he looked sure to come on for that run.

Yes, much worse 33/1 shots, and a bit of luck with some rain would help, with Australia a NR....who knows.

You'd need about 10-12 mm for Aus to be a non-runner. Don't bet if that's what you're hoping for.

Cheers, but R4's anyway now, after the decs. I've got a few speculative quid on antepost ew, that'll do me.

Brigust has gone into hiding.

Harry there is no need for that mucky talk.

mucky talk feltfair...

just informing anyone that likes the horse for this race he was very coltish at epsom...thought some may find that helpful...i certainly would if i didn't know

Brig is on holiday/work I think Felt.

Probably afraid to come home and eat the big brown one re his assertions or he`s gone skint.

Backing Treve at 4/6 was a recipe for disaster alright!

Kingston Hill out...

why betfair exchange so slow to react ?

They have to wait until they receive official confirmation from Weatherby's or something..

So is Geoffrey Chaucer now.

Shame for the race   Oz will prob be 5s on now

Would love to know the reason for pulling out GC. We shall see.

Irishracing.com Live ‏@IrishRacing365  49s
Official excuse for Geoffrey Chaucer confirmed as coughing.

Without F.R Ballydoyle benefit , call this a classic . pocket talking

pity about Geoff not running, was expecting a gd run from him, poss chase the fav home?
Think he is a smart horse, just did not show it at Epsom.

not convinced Fascinating Rock will run either, all Weld's form is to leave it really late then pull the plug!

ah, I take it back - just seen that he's said FR runs - well that's something at least!

This is basically a G3

Orchestra tops my ratings to finish second, it would be no surprise to see him to put his disappointing Epsom effort behind him but with that doubt about his latest form and not knowing how Coolmore are going to set this race up he makes little appeal at the price for the place. I'm still not convinced about the merit of any of Fascinating Rock's form so I'm place laying him to small stakes and happy enough to have the other three running for me for the place, even though it's possible the other Coolmore horses may have their chances sacrificed.

1/8 SP and won like a Group 1 horse in a Group 3 race. No way he has the pace for 1 mile. All those excuses for the Guineas are bollocks.

Irish Champion Stakes is next for Aus says AOB.

Given that Australia now heads to the Irish Champion Stakes as his next race, which is September, it looks like he may now be aimed towards the Arc. 5/1 is the top price available.

Irish Derby, Irish Champion and then Arc if the ground is suitable was always going to be the plan, imo.

just annoys me when JOB comes out with the crap he came out with after Epsom where he was saying he could beat Kingman and co over 1 mile. No fcuking chance.

Another Classic for that burgeoning talent that is young Joseph.What say you Brig?

well done on the place lay Figgis.

Ta, sint. My choice would be to strike while the iron's hot, go for the KG against his elders and consolidate his reputation, would be very difficult to beat with the 12lbs allowance, there are no Harbingers in this year's field. Depending on how the season pans out it might not be so easy receiving only 7lbs at Leopardstown and France can always get soft.

How many lbs does he get in the Arc? 8 ? Can't remember.

Yes.

KG a possibility obviously but unlikely in my opininon. Arest is in order

Doubt he had too much of a workout today. By saving him for Leopardstown they're running the risk he could do a Galileo, but at least Galileo had the KG under his belt and proved he could beat his elders. Australia would have finishing 3rd in a good Guineas over Galileo but it would be difficult to argue with any conviction that he'd proved himself better than Galileo unless he wins at Leopardstown.

They're campaigning him easily. If Australia meets good horses, he will get battered. Irish champion against a mediocre field, then he won't run in the arc because of the ground. Wouldn't touch the 5/1 with a barge pole, soft ground or no soft ground. He's being campaigned like a horse they want the easiest path for.

Graeme, who are the "good horses" that would batter him?

Really ought to go for the King George what else have Coolmore got for that race? Suspect they are already wrapping this one up in cotton wool - not convinced he's any better than Camelot. Aiming for the Arc seems futile Aiden's only ever had one 3yo placed in the race.

the race was a bit of a farce imo....

id like to see him race his elders and lets see if he is the real deal.

I can see the irish champion becoming another non event which is not good for racing....

Murph - Over 10f they're avoiding the fugue. Over a mile he'd have no chance against Kingman. Over 12f he'd struggle on softer ground against Treve and if the ground was good, Tahgrooda, Harp Star, Telescope, Flintshire possibly Eagle Top could possibly give him a run. He's no being campaigned like a horse who could live up to the hype. No Eclipse and no KG with the age weight allowance .....10f Irish race against who ? ...and if it's not a good ground arc ?

Will be too good for The Fugue over 10 furlongs, imo. I hope they meet at Leopardstown.

where's Kingston Hill going to run
next?
With a good summer won't be venturing
outside his box,will he?

Joseph O'Brien believes Australia could have even more to offer over a shorter trip.

He said: "This is a very special horse, he was an armchair ride.

"He has a massive engine and we still haven't seen the best of this horse.

"I'd love to ride him at a mile and a quarter - I think that's going to be his thing on fast ground.

I don't blame them for choosing whichever race they think most suitable, but it is these kind of comments, like the post Guineas ones, that stick in the craw. If they really believe what they're saying then they could've just gone for the Eclipse.

Only the very best Derby winners can win an Eclipse. Much easier to talk about races that might have been won than actually do it.

Agree Figgis. Not endearing themselves to folks at the moment.

since 1989,only Nashwan and STS have
done the double,don't know the exact
number who have tried though.

off me head I think these have tried.
Motivator
Authorized
Benny The Dip
Erhaab...?

Graeme - Take your point that the Fugue would have an excellent chance against him, but if you expect Australia to improve for dropping back to 10f, I doubt she can afford to give weight to him & that would swing it in Australia's favor. Agree that he would struggle v Kingman, he truly looks exceptional & has improved. But that Guineas pays testament to how good Australia is, after all he got within a neck of an exceptional miler in Kingman, without the benefit of a prior run, during a time when the stable was struggling & over a trip less than ideal. Obviously we all know he won't run on soft ground so it is pointless to compare with Treve. As for Telescope, Australia's 2 classics and 3rd behind Kingman & NoT is more than he will ever achieve. Telescope won a poor Hardwicke (albeit in good fashion) but he is no Harbinger. At the end of the day, he has only beaten Pethers Moon & Hillstar, not exactly Group 1 horses are they? He certainly could not afford to give weight to Australia. I'm a big fan of Tahgrooda and if she can improve further she would have a chance. Harp Star not good enough & the only Japanese horse I could see giving him a race would be Just A Way.
Regardless of all this, and as much as I would have liked to have seen him in the Eclipse, a classic must take precedent. I disagree with your point that they are avoiding most of the horses you have mentioned. After all, you'd imagine the Fugue would be at Leopardstown to defend her crown & Australia would meet Treve, Tahgrooda, Harp Star, Telescope et al in the Arc should the ground come up good. There is no rush for him to take them on now when there are plenty opportunities later on in the season.

Australia got a low scratchy action,will love artificial surface(a quick one),I was not impressed today,thought there was a moment when joseph did ask the horse and the reaction was not immediate despite the good end visual result.(Still did not seem to have a hard time against that bunch)

Jun 28, 2014 -- 3:45PM, penzance wrote:

where's Kingston Hill going to runnext?With a good summer won't be venturingoutside his box,will he?

Must go too the Arc,feel sure Australia will miss the race if soft?

This is how a freak wins a 12f race- http://youtu.be/mo7pEsp2WKc

Can't imagine much beating that over 12f myself(ok a one off, but one i keep replaying)

Classy performance from Oz yest
Looks the real deal on fast ground & I don't see him being beaten granted fast ground over 10 or 12f. Sounds like the Ire Champ Stks will be next (Ire Champs wkend) & they will want to give this new Ire meeting their full backing (just like the Derby).

Murph - that was a classic in name only. To me and many others it was a glorified training session. We will soon find out how good the other horses are, but Australia won't be winning any arc in my book. As Penzance said, will Kingston Hill be boxed in all summer, to me he won't be. He never ran because daddy and his mates own Australia. The post race celebrations to me wouldn't have looked out of place in North Korea, along with the withdrawls. We even had those knowing KH was a non runner scooping up all the prices for days before the race. The behaviour of the whole operation leaves a bad taste, and i for one would love it if this horse gets caned over 10f. Australia will probably run once more this season, before being sent to stud. I don't like it when people treat others like morons, and when they hit out with all these superlatives, i'd simply rather the horse proved it. He's not in the same league as the recent greats. I hope Kingston Hill gets battered aswell. I'm going to let the horses i named do the talking.

Irish Derby becoming a bit of a farcical race nowadays.

Geoffrey Chaucer withdraw due to coughing but is apparently due to be supplemented into next weekends German Derby. 1 week turnaround. Is that normal?

Someone suggested yesterday that the "cough" was just in case of the unthinkable happening. I scoffed but maybe they had a point.

Ebanoran and Fascinating Rock have done the Derrinstown form no favours. I don't think Australia has much to fear from Geoffrey Chaucer.

The time for the race was very poor, equivalent to over half a furlong short of what would be necessary to even think of going to Epsom, Chantilly or the Curragh.

I accept that AOB`s horses can improve but not for me.

Posted immediately after the Derrinstown,re Geoffrey Chaucer,Fascinating Rock and Ebanoran.

The clock rarely lies

I'm worried we will not see much more of Australia. He is everything Coolmore want in a stallion and the vibes I get is they can't wait to retire him. This break until the Irish champion is baffling considering all they ramble on about is how he must have fast ground. He should have run in the Eclipse but to not even consider the King George or the Juddmonte is so disappointing.

They are following the Andre Fabre method of preparing a 3 year old for the Arc, imo.

The implication was not that he had anything to fear from Geoffrey Chaucer.

So what was your point?

If they are trying a French-type prep for the Arc they've already gone wrong by running him in Ireland. Ground could easily be very soft in Paris anyway.

You know, it is quite possible the going in Leopardstown and Longchamp could be Soft, in which case Australia may have ran his last race! John Magnier already talking about the breeding sheds so I don't think we'll see him as a 4yo.

Anyway, the Juddmonte will have to be considered as it is close to the Irish Champion and the ground may be quick. They cannot retire him without getting a 10f Group 1 race on his CV!

We don't yet know how high Oz can go. He is no doubt a lot better than he has been able to show and I would have thought that at some stage they would like him to be tested against better opposition, if only to justify AOB's "best ever" claims. He has to be a mid 130's horse but won't get that rating unless he demolishes a good field.

Appeals for surgery to
Derby after Australia win
By Scott Burton and Tony O’Hehir 7:44AM 30 JUN 2014

THE Aga Khan’s racing and stud manager believes Europe’s big-race summer programme requires surgery in order to re-establish the Irish Derby as a race that defines champions.

In the wake of Australia’s stroll at 1-8 in the second five-runner field in three years on Saturday, Georges Rimaud said it was time for Europe’s racing authorities to look again at the programme, as he attributed the decline in international competition in the Curragh Classic to the change in distances of the Prix du Jockey Club and Grand Prix de Paris.

After Epsom second Kingston Hill was a late withdrawal because of the ground, Australia was able to saunter to trainer Aidan O’Brien’s 11th win in the race, leading home stablemates Kingfisher and Orchestra for a fifth Ballydoyle 1-2-3.

Curragh racecourse manager Paul Hensey said the position of the race in the calendar and even the distance it is run over – although that is unlikely to be given serious consideration – would form part of the examination of the reasons for the disappointing turnout on Saturday, when all five runners were trained in Ireland, while Rimaud said the race had developed a disturbing trend.

"It’s worrying for Irish racing," he said. "Australia is a very good horse, but the race was too easy for him.

"We need a reorganisation of all the major European Derbys so we can return to the days when the Irish Derby was the title decider and brought together the winners from France and Epsom. But that is up to the competent authorities to bring about."

^^^ so where was the Aga`s runners on Sat ??
The Fr "derby" should return to 12f.
Our Trainers don't seem to interested in having runners either ??

I didn't think AOB would make the mistake of running Australia here but it seems there are other powers at work. Apparently he is trying to save the status  of the Irish Derby. A status his own team have worked hard to ruin. It seems like their hens are finally beginning to come home to roost. It's al the deserve.