Moohaajim - 2000 Guineas.

I'm another who lumped on @ 25/1 after being hugely impressed by his Mill Reef performance. However, the Middle Park run was worrying regarding his stamina, and while better ground may help I see him as a 6f sprinter through and through and so couldn't honestly advise him for the Guineas now.
Just hoping we have a dry April and he wins the Greenham nicely (he obviously like Newbury) and then I can lay off for a profit.

sintonian
25 Feb 13 18:50

I can't find the old thread with all the info on it.

The other thread with previous comments on is titled 2,000 Guineas (2013) and is on the first page of the antepost section.

I was pretty adamant Canford Cliffs was a sprinter after his 2yo career. Loads of people were iirc. It all depends how the horse strengthens and matures, really.

Hope your right on this one Sint - guess the law of averages says thats got to happen eventually.

Hold fire on bets for Mooj. Botti is talking about the french 2000 in todays rp

What said exactly?

Dunno. I am going to pop out and buy the paper. Only 2 weeks ago he was talking about the Greenham.

I hope they don't want to avoid Dawn Approach after Bolger's bullish comments earlier in the week.

Moohaajim possible for French 2,000 Guineas
Moohaajim, a 20-1 shot for the Qipco 2,000 Guineas at Newmarket on May 4, could go for the French equivalent according to trainer Marco Botti, who said: "He's in the 2,000 Guineas but we may also look at the French Guineas." (5 hours ago)


this is all i could find from the RP site

So the French guineas is an option - of course it is. If it is quicker at Longchamp of course they may go there. Don't think anything has changed tbh.

Just standard comments.

Not guaranteed a clear run over there either with the carnage in-running in the classics.

Marco Botti was interviewed on ATR yesterday and just said Greenham, Newmarket is the plan, no mention of France, so we'll see.

His horses remain in good form as well. See he had attracted a couple of new high profile owners this season, including the Niarchos family.

Marco also mentioned that Moohaajim has wintered really well and has strenghted and matured a lot. Hopefully he'll hack up in the Greenham. Then its game on

They are in good nick Roo though the Guineas is about 7 weeks away so a long way to go yet.

Fwiw, there hasn't been much money for him for Newmarket, other than us! Probably a bad sign.

There won't be much money until the horses start working on grass.

I know the race is a good way off but just reassuring that his horses are coping with the winter we've had. Newbury will provide more answers especially if Olympic Glory pitches up.

The 7.2 backer gettin a bit ahead of themselves today

Own up, who has forced Lads into 20/1 from 25s ?

In Newbury at the moment, its raining, just heard a rumble of thunder and it looks like a huge downpour is imminent. Not looking good for Mooj on Saturday I'm afraid.

Also slightly surprised at the jockey booking

Hopefully it's just going to be the odd shower here and there - forecast looks mainly dry and bright, and it's been mainly dry and very windy the last 3-4 days so should have dried things up.

Agree about the jockey booking though.

Jockey booking surprised me too. He did win the Irish 1k Guineas last season on Samitar though. Why no Kirby ?

Toronado was pretty impressive today. If he improves from that he's going to go very close.

Is he banned? Don't know otherwise. Ryan Moore is riding in the race and ok Coolmore may want him for a second string, but if he were to run really well I would have thought he would take the ride in the Guineas.

Touching 15/8 on here. Guess because of the ground fears but it should be Good by race time.

Just looking for a good run sint at this stage, OG is potentially a very good horse. Most important thing is that he runs well enough to books a Guineas slot.

Like you say, don't think we are going to be able to use the ground as an excuse though clearly it would be better if it was good to firm. Given the weather we've had for the last year, getting GF on guineas day anyway has got to be unlikely

Bag of **** - as predicted.

Yeah dream over, still travelled like a good horse though.

I guess it will be interesting to see if they still go ahead and run in the Guineas. You can see it one of two ways, he either didn't stay the trip, or blew up having travelled like the winner.

Owner Sheikh Joaan Bin Hamad Al Thani already has a strong contender for the Newmarket version of the classic in Craven Stakes winner Toronado and that could see Olympic Glory re-routed to France.

Trained by Richard Hannon, the 8/11 favourite - whose only juvenile defeat came to Dawn Approach in the Coventry - had to work quite hard for success in a slowly run renewal of the Group Three contests.

    Profiles

    R Hannon
    Olympic Glory (IRE)

The main protagonists were playing cat and mouse with Martin Harley aboard Moohaajim shadowing every move made by Richard Hughes aboard the eventual winner.

With Hughes hard at work in the saddle, Harley was still motionless but when he asked his mount to quicken inside the distance the response was disappointing.

In contrast, Olympic Glory kept on well and was good value for his length victory over the front-running Sir Patrick Moore with Moohaajim only third.

Hughes, who rode stablemate Toronado to such an impressive success on Thursday, said: "He likes the cut in the ground, so France might be the better option.

"He's lazy, and he's lazy at home, and I gave him a couple of digs just to let him know he had a race. He needs another furlong really."

Hannon said: "He never wins by very far, and he is a very lazy horse. He's going to be a much better horse when he goes over a mile.

"That will take a bit of weight off him and get him ready for the French Guineas. He is still pretty burly and he's bound to improve."

Botti said of third-placed Moohaajim: "The ground is a little bit dead, but he ran a respectable race. We were there to win, but respect to the winner who is a top-class horse.

"We will see how he comes out of the race before we make a final decision about the Guineas."

To be honest todays lacklustre run even makes me doubt he can be top class sprinter, but I'll give him one more chance on faster ground - Duke Of York Stakes should be his next race ground permitting.

Lack lustre may be a bit strong but the proximity of the 2nd does pose inevitable questions about the quality of the race.

I agree about the choice of next race other than my pocket still hoping he goes for the Guineas - he'll need it very quick however.

Chaps, this was a trial. Now, I can see he looks a most unlikely Guineas winner, but some of the comments are stupid. Lack-lustre is way off the mark. Special Duty was beat in a G3 trial on her first attempt at 7f and there were LOADS of people saying she was a sprinter, hadn't trained on, wont stay.

Btw, Sir Patrick Moore has an OR of 100, won on seasonal debut at Newbury last season and will head next to Germany for their Guineas. Personally I think the form is fine. Mooj travelled like the best horse today, imo, and it was either a case of not staying, or needing the run. Where he runs next will tell us what the trainer really thinks.

They looked to go slow early and the time was poor, which helps to explain the second finishing so close. Personally, I think the winner would've won a bit more impressively off a stronger pace.

Anyone who thinks this thing will stay a mile is clutching at the thinnest of straws.

Sint you know how strong I was about him, but just looked a non stayer I'm afraid.

I liked Toronado and cooled off on him as well and looked what has happened since!

I don't think there is anyone who does.

I'm saying I don't know if he will.

Toronado looks the winner to me Roo!! Gone off Dawn Approach!

Sint - Moohaajim is becoming your flat race equivalent of Oscars Wells.

After yesterday I`d be surprised if he runs.

Don't mention that horses name ever, Uncle.

Just think's it's crazy to draw firm conclusions off the back of 1 run, esp in a trial, though clearly there are big doubts, for sure.

If anyone has a copy of todays RP can they let us know what Marco Botti said to them post-race .. ta!

On reflection I don't see why they wouldn't go if the ground was good or ideally faster.

Of course cannot go for Duke of York and its always hard for 3yo  sprinters early doors unless you stick to your age group. On looking closely at 2000, there are not that many viable candidates left so wouldn't actually be the biggest surprise to see him place in ideal conditions

Newmarket drains really well too, much better than Newbury.

And I agree re viable alternatives, there is Dawn A & Toronado who are obviously the ones to beat, then you have the 3 AOB horses who don't look anything special at the moment, Gardswood, maybe Van Der Neer but unlikely, Fort Knox is trading at 300/1 so they must be waiting for the Irish version. Could be 10 runners or less.

Restiadargent was beaten her her trial last season and then went for the Duke Of York.I see by the decs that Moohajim is not entered,so he would have to be supplemented i guess.

For me,i think they will still go down Gns route hoping the better ground will help with his stamina doubts

Interesting thanks Sj. They clearly don't view him as a sprinter otherwise he'd have had an entry imo.

Possibly not but quite surprised that Reckless Abandon didn't get an entry and they do see him as a sprinter and would have been an ideal starting point.

Not sure you can get a supplementary entry for a Group 2 can you? And not sure you would want to do that at this stage of the season any way .

i'd be a tad worried about this fellow as lacks any real scope for improvement...he was disappointing know matter how you cut it...

he will struggle in any group race he turns up in and is certainly not one to take a price about until he shows a lot more

sprinting is probably the way they will go but how much improvement he finds is open to debate

I'd actually disagree with that harry. The way he travelled seemed to indicate a horse with real ability and if he could transfer that to a finish then perhaps there is scope for real improvement. His weak finish could be down to a number of things

1. Lack of fitness
2. Lack of stamina
3. Lack of maturity
4. Lack of resolution
5. Lack of ability

At this stage I'm hopeful its one of the first three, with also a need for quick ground. If its 4 or 5 then harry you are right. I'd want to see him run again on much faster ground before reaching a firm conclusion

^ Whatever the reason there is no way on earth he is winning a Guineas in 2 weeks time.

Wouldn't disagree with that uncle but still open to him winning a decent prize at some stage this season

He got beat fair and square by Sir Patrick Moore who's next target is the German 200 Guineas, I think that says it all. Moohaajim doesn't look like he's made any physical improvement from 2 to 3 which is a real shame because he was one I really liked last year. Reminds me a bit of Strategic Prince, decent 2 year old but a no show at 3.

The Greenham was a poor race IMO and I will be surprised if any of them win a Classic this year.

The thing is, how many people clocked Excelebration as a multiple Group 1 winner after he ran in the Greenham? Not many. Before that he'd be winning on the AW at Wolverhampton. At this stage, i.e first runs of a new season and horses going from 2/3, i'd be wary of saying the horse in 2nd pulls the form down. It's not like he is a handicapper. He was running in decent races last season and won first time out at the track.  Anyhow, we'll just have to see. It's not pocket talk, just think it's a little too early to right him off, much as it was disappointing.

Connections of the Harry Dunlop-trained colt are looking forward to the Classic in Cologne on May 20 following his effort in the Group Three over seven furlongs.

"We were delighted. On the ratings we had to improve," said Dunlop. "He's a horse we thought a lot of last year and the form of his Deauville race in which he was sixth in worked out very well with Gengis who won the Prix Fontainebleau.


"It was nice to see the form working out but more importantly yesterday it was a hell of a run against one of Europe's leading two-year-olds last year (Olympic Glory). You could say that as he won the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere.

"We are going to look forward very much to Germany. We've got an option there in the Guineas and we can look to whatever options there are in France as well as he's French bred.

"Yesterday was great for his first run back and for a small stable like ours. The German Guineas will be our prime target, but it's right to see if there is anything else for him."

Canford Cliffs, Rodrigo de Triano, Zafonic, Sayyedati, Warning, etc, all good horses disappointingly beaten in early season trials.

Still not sure the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere was that great a race either. Very heavy ground which What A Name would of hated and still got close to beating Olympic Glory who loves soft ground. Indian Jade wasn't far behind them two and I don't think he did anything special as 2 year old prior to that race. It just looks a bit iffy to me, Olympic Glory looked the first one beat yesterday but still managed to win!!!

I never take trials seriously because the majority of the horses that run in them are always undercooked but the Greenham just didn't look a good race to me the way it worked out.

The funny thing is Sir Patrick Moore finished 6th in a Listed Race at Deauville last year, two other colts in that race Morandi (2nd) and Gengis (9th) finished 1st (Gengis) and 2nd (Morandi) in a trail race for the French 2000 Guineas at Longchamp (Prix De Fontainebleau) a week ago. Maybe Sir Patrick Moore should go for the French version instead.

I meant trial not trail!

He may yet be a very decent fast ground 6f horse. The way he travels reminds me a lot of Owington who also finished 2nd in a Middle Park (due to a shocking Pat Eddery ride)and then got beat in the Greenham before winning the Duke Of York, Golden Jubilee (Cork & Orrery in those days) and the July Cup.

However The thread is about Moohaajim as a 2,000 horse. That is now over - and to be fair I told you it was over straight after the Middle Park.

well it looks like moohaajim goes for the GNS                                                                                         

"We have to give him another chance. There is only one Guineas and if he doesn't stay we can come back to six furlongs."

thats from the trainer

At least this means there may still be a chance for me to lay off my stake and get my money back. An in-running lay might be the best bet as he should travel well for 6f.

At least we are going to get a run for our money. In-terms of in-running betting I suspect a load of punters will put in lay's at around 5/1 in the hope he looks like winning but doesn't make it.

Personally I don't think he is no forlorn hope. He got beat in a trial, no big shock, is bred for a mile, and has the 2to form in the book. He is 30/1 on here.

Personally I'll be happy to lay off at anything under 20.

Roo you can supplement for Duke Of York at a cost of £7500 before msy 9th,but (i'm with you) very much doubt they would go down that route.

Cheers sj. Would be a bizarre decision to supplement - the entries were only made a couple of weeks ago.

Think connections have made a sensible choice, there is only one Guineas. I retain a small amount of faith, got no chance at all if he doesn't run. Hope that as he seems to travel so well that actually keep him close to the pace rather than all that weaving about malarkey in the Greenham. He ain't going to win if he doesn't stay so see little point waiting out the back to try and do them with a turn of foot

I had a read back of the trainer quotes after his Middle Park run and he has been true to his word in that he has been trained for the Guineas, so no point in giving him as Duke entry as can opt to sprinting later in season. Back then he thought a mile would be no problem, so we'll see!

Bit of money for him today, tops 20/1 now.

Getting a run for your money sinters and more importantly  on fast ground,not for me,but good luck to ya     fwiw George and chris for moi

Looks like the field is holding up with 3 O'Brien runners plus Garswood, so a place lay at around 6/1 looks like easy money to me.

CC seems the chosen one from AOB and he was easily beaten by Mooj in Middle Park - you go place lay. Dreadful 1/6 chance if you ask me

That's right Teets. And he is still no forlorn hope. He has the 2yo form in the book, and the Greenham is just a trial. Dangerous lay at the prices imo.

That's it sint. Forgetting the Middle Park and Greenham and any other form line to suggest he won't win.

I can only see the Mill Reef in my head and just looking for him to really bounce of the quick ground

Are we definitely going to get Good to Firm ground?

defo imo,Newmarket aren't adverse to running on fast ground unlike some other tracks

HARD ON THE STEEL THEN.

At least Kirby is back on board.

Still can't see him staying, despite his breeding suggesting a mile should be ideal, or being nearly good enough (the Mill Reef is always a terrible trial and was a pretty poor race last year) but I'll still be well happy if he proves me wrong.

please be aware they've already watered twice..wont be rattling fast ground ground...fast side of good imo

It'll be much faster than for the Greenham and Middle Park though and that's he main thing.

And JOB reckons CC will get much closer to DA on the ground. Hope he's right as using the Middle Park as a form line then Mooj will fly past them both

Don't wont to p*** on your chips but I was at newbury and 2 things....I stood half and furlong out and he was running on empty and it was clear to anyone that he doesn't stay...just cant see how he ll stay the extra trip and the bigger point is in the paddock he looked fit and like a 2yo...very small and compact, looks a 2yo and a sprinter at that. looking at botti and connections after the race they looked gutted.  This horse will win the july cup maybe and could be a nice sprinter but no miler imo.

you're no fun! Just putting the not staying bit to the back of mind

ahahah....fair play mate. All the best. If not sat im sure he s got a big race in him.

he' a sprinter!!

He probably won't stay. But there is only one way to find out! I won't be laying off my bets evens though I might get the chance to do so looking at the market.

I ain't laying off either. Bet him September at what at the time I thought were very decent odds. But I get a run for my money and as its going to be pretty fast ground I still don't think he's the worst 20/1 shot you can back - deluded to the end.

In my heart I know he won't stay but its great fun. It's also helped by having a very decent 2nd string to my bow so really hopeful I am going to have one involved at the finish

Marco Botti's Moohaajim enjoyed a fine juvenile campaign, winning the Mill Reef Stakes at Newbury before being touched off by Reckless Abandon in the Middle Park at Newmarket.

Some doubt his ability to stay a mile after he was beaten into third on his reappearance in the Greenham Stakes, but the Italian-born trainer is hopeful a lack of stamina will not be an issue.

He said: "It looks like the ground is going to be OK for him and he is drawn next to Dawn Approach, which is good.

"I think he has come on since Newbury. He did a nice piece of work earlier this week and all is going the right way.

"He has to go an extra furlong, but I was happy he was nice and relaxed at Newbury on ground that was quite dead.

"You can't be too confident, but the horse is bred to get a mile and I am convinced he can."

Laid virtually all my bet off @ 26/1 - hope I don't regret it.

With respect uncle I hope you do

Segalled

Looks like he's been pricewised - I should have waited after all.

good luck to you lads on moohaajim,but tbh i really cant get what TS has seen to put him up as a bet today.
He must be banking on the going imo.

Again good luck to you lads on the Moohaajim train

Best of luck to everyone, the wait is nearly over. Would be delighted if Van der Neer gets in the 3. This really fast ground should suit. If not would like to see R hughes win an english classic, would be well deserved

Sometimes he just picks one at a fancy price SJ.

FWIW, there is a market without the front two, and looking at the 4/1 on Garswood probably looks the best bet there imo. With Mooj he is either likely to stay or not so wouldn't want him in this market tbh and CC is too short as fav.

true sint but sometimes they dont make sense (imo),as said mate,good luck with 'jim' today

Jim

Yep Jim is good, I'll still call him Mooj.

Anyway stick reading is now 9, quicker than for Craven - I'm still dreaming

I tried to warn you.

Don't need any warnings thanks Uncle.

He finished 12th, regardless of trip, that's a poor effort.

Obviously completely flattered by win in Mill Reef

July Cup seems the target now

A possible target yeah. I think they will lower their sights first and see if he is up to running in a Group 1. He might not have trained on.

yeah dint even Botti says" At the moment things are up in the air"

sorry *sint

Yep. Fair to say there is a distinct feeling of disappointment from the yard.