December Gold Cup Sat 15th Cheltenham.

Tough race to call AP as hard to know what might run. Given he'd have a 12lb turnaround with Walkon for his Exeter defeat, I 'd quite like the look of NDLT at 12/1

Trainer has confirmed Walkon def runs here, Bless The Wings does not.

I cant see Ghizao returning to a 20 runner handicap anytime soon.

Crytal Bonus .. probably best suited to soft ground.

Havingascooby wants 2 miles and still needs to jump better imo.

Some others have put up NDLT. It's his only entry.

RP 1/1/12
   D.Pipe " Notus de la tour is our only entry. He hasn't quite been right,otherwise he would have been out before. There are a couple of graduation races coming up and hopefully he'll be out shortly,but if anyone's looking for a bet I'd say back him with a run."

was a cracking race last season, produced a load of winners

Thanks tinkler

If Unioniste runs off 137 he must have a big chance. 3rd to Dynaste (161 over hurdles) and Fingal Bay (153 over hurdles) at the last meeting, jumped really well and surely Nicholls and Hales won't let this chance go begging off this mark.

Yep, Unioniste on a nice perch. Mad to think he's only 4 !!

^^^ Anywon know if Unioniste is an intended runner?

Like it too, tryin to find out but its like gettin blood from a stone so far

Reckon he's made for the race and Nicholls will want the prize money more than ever this year as he'll need it once Henderson gets going. Can't see much else in the race and don't think he'd enter it if he didn't intend running. Jumped like a bunny last time and most of these are pretty exposed.

There has to be a risk he wont get in on 137 isnt there ?

Then you get your money back if he's balloted out. What would you do? Run off a low weight for the best part of 100 grand or carry penalties in a novice chase for a few grand? Otherwise take on horses rated 150s at level weights in a graded race for possibly 20 grand?

booster - educate me. If you bet on Unioniste Ante Post and he doesnt get in due to the fact too many horses better than 137 do you get your money back with all online bookmakers ? Coz that does indeed make the bet look a whole lot better. Thanks.

You do if he's declared at the overnight stage but balloted out. You don't if he's not declared at the last declaration which i think will be 48 hours for this race. Money for him today suggests he'll be targeted at the race and took 11s with Stan James out of Saturday's winnings at the weekend. Good Luck if you're joining in, looks chucked in to me.

I am going in.  Thanks for the education. Learning all the time. Much appreciated.

A 4yo winning a race like this? Surely he's not ready for it?

Gonna be a stat buster innit sint

Gonna be a stat buster innit sint

Gonna be a stat buster innit sint

Need i repeat myself

CHELTENHAM RACECOURSE MEDIA RELEASE

for immediate release, Wednesday, December 5, 2012

DIVERS & DE BOITRON SET FOR PAUL STEWART IronSpine CHARITY CHALLENGE GOLD CUP

Meeting: The International
Dates: Friday & Saturday - December 14 & 15
Gates Open: 10am both days
First Race: 12.15pm Friday, 12.10pm Saturday
Admission prices from £9. Go to www.cheltenham.co.uk for further information

Trainer Ferdy Murphy is hoping to launch a two-pronged assault on the £100,000 Paul Stewart IronSpine Charity Challenge Gold Cup, the weights for which are announced today. Divers (10st 2lb) and De Boitron (10st 1lb) are on course for the two mile, five furlong handicap chase on day two of The International, Saturday, December 15, at Cheltenham.

Divers missed the Paddy Power Gold Cup at Cheltenham on November 17 due to soft ground but the eight-year-old boasts an excellent record at the home of Jump racing, having finished fourth in the Grade Three Byrne Group Plate at The Festival in March and third in the 2011 Paddy Power Gold Cup.

He also beat last season's Paul Stewart IronSpine Charity Challenge Gold Cup victor Quantitativeeasing (11st 3lb) in the Listed Pulteney Land Investments Novices' Handicap Chase at The Festival in 2011.

De Boitron has run well at The Festival in the two most recent renewals of the extended two-mile Johnny Henderson Grand Annual Handicap Chase, coming home sixth in 2012 and fourth in 2011.

The eight-year-old was third in the Ceres Estates Silver Trophy Limited Handicap Chase over two miles and five furlongs, at Cheltenham in April, 2011, and filled the same position on his seasonal return in a Kelso handicap chase on November 10.

Murphy revealed: "I hope that both Divers and De Boitron will head to Cheltenham. De Boitron will handle softer conditions, whereas Divers really needs good ground. As long as the ground is not as soft as it was on the Saturday of The Open, Divers will definitely run.

"Divers is very, very well. We worked him on Tuesday morning and I couldn't have him in better shape so we are desperate to get him to a racecourse.

"He has won on soft ground but he is very good on a faster surface and, when you get into the top races, you want everything in your favour. His record at Cheltenham is very good and I hope that he can take his chance.

"De Boitron has been third over the course and distance and he ran well twice in the Johnny Henderson Grand Annual, which is a too short for him.

"He ran a blinder on his seasonal return at Kelso and he has improved for the outing. He is in good order and two miles, five furlongs around Cheltenham will be ideal for him."

The weights for the Paul Stewart IronSpine Charity Challenge Gold Cup are headed by the Philip Hobbs-trained Wishfull Thinking (11st 12lb), who was an impressive winner of the Shloer Chase at Cheltenham on November 18.

Hobbs is also responsible for Menorah (11st 10lb), who captured the Grade Two StanJames.com International Hurdle at The International in 2010 and was third in the Grade One Racing Post Arkle Chase at this year's Festival.

Walkon (10st 12lb) and Nadiya De La Vega (10st 9lb), second and third in the Paddy Power Gold Cup, could re-oppose each other, while Paul Nicholls, who saddled Al Ferof to victory in the November highlight, may be represented by Tataniano (11st 10lb), course specialist Poquelin (11st 10lb), Cristal Bonus (11st 7lb), Ghizao (11st 5lb) and Unioniste (9st 8lb).

Other contenders among the 35 entries going forward include Hunt Ball (11st 7lb), who scored in the Pulteney Land Investments Novices' Handicap Chase at The Festival in March but was pulled up on his seasonal return in the Paddy Power Gold Cup, Ascot Grade Three winner Roberto Goldback (11st 11lb) and Astracad (10st 8lb), who won at The International in 2011.

The Paul Stewart IronSpine Charity Challenge Gold Cup is being sponsored by the Stewart Family, headed by well-known businessman and racehorse owner Andy Stewart, who has enjoyed tremendous success with four-time Ladbrokes World Hurdle hero Big Buck's.

One of Andy's sons, Paul, suffered a severe spinal injury in a snowboarding accident in December, 2008, and was paralysed from the waist down. He was initially told by doctors that he would never walk again but he is embarking on a remarkable challenge next year when participating in an Ironman/Quadathalon-style event.

1     F25-21    Wishfull Thinking27      9    11-12    Philip Hobbs38         162    131    167
2     F314-3    Menorah39      7    11-10    Philip Hobbs38         160    133    168
3     1113-P    Hunt Ball28      7    11-7    Keiran Burke         157    144    172
4     11P2-1    Cristal Bonus42      6    11-7    Paul Nicholls61         157    138    164
5     468-13    Ghizao21      8    11-5    Paul Nicholls61         155    125    169
6     2175-P    Quantitativeeasing28      7    11-3    Nicky Henderson76         153    143    157
7     345P-2    Walkon28      7    10-12    Alan King60    Robert Thornton     148    143    170
8     715U-    Tatenen245      8    10-11    Richard Rowe         147    129    167
9     6050-6    Tartak56      9    10-9    Tim Vaughan33         145    161    171
10     17-13    Nadiya De La Vega28      6    10-9    Nicky Henderson76         145    163    169
11     1721-4    Astracad29      6    10-8    Nigel Twiston-Davies75         144    166    170
12     1323F-    Notus De La Tour275    6    10-8    David Pipe53         144    153    166
13     24-5P6    Micheal Flips14      8    10-6    Andy Turnell50    Nick Scholfield     142    160    173
14     4910F-    Quiscover Fontaine245    8    10-5    W P Mullins88         141    —    —
15     PP-343    Renard14    7    10-4    Venetia Williams57         140    163    171
16     13-51P    Golden Chieftain35    7    10-2    Colin Tizzard67         138    105    172
17     U047-0    Divers56      8    10-2    Ferdy Murphy18         138    161    171
18     3602-3    De Boitron35      8    10-1    Ferdy Murphy18         137    138    169
19     211FP    Kingsmere28      7    10-1    Henry Daly75         137    116    170
20     305338    Imperial Shabra14    8    10-1    Patrick O Brady75    R P Treacy     137    147    162
21     09P0-2    Hell´s Bay40      10    9-13    Keiran Burke         135    125    150
22     12432/    Have You Seen Me611      9    9-9    Nigel Twiston-Davies75         131    —    —
23     65-113    Unioniste29    4    9-8    Paul Nicholls61         137    146    170



Anyone know the max field size for definite?? I was positive it was 20 but RP says 17???

This race will be restricted to 17 runners plus two reserves. The two reserves will
be nominated as R18 and R19.

17 it tis

David Pipe ‏@DavidPipeRacing
Confirmed Notus de la Tour for the December Gold Cup @CheltenhamRaces on Saturday - he schooled this morning and jumped very well.

Thanks BJG

Nicholls has been busting stats for years and things have changed in the last couple of years with less exposed horses going handicapping sooner as they can find themselves rated over 150 for a couple of decent novice wins eg. Houblon Des Obeaux. I must admit to having a slight doubt about his jumping in a big field which we obviously can't be certain about plus I wonder whether they'll run him from out of the handicap but there are usually doubts over 11-1 shots. I think they will run him, though, as a win in an ordinary decent novice chase would probably see him into the mid/late 140s anyway.

Going against the grain here but I like Ghizao. His form a couple of seasons ago with Captain Chris looks fantastic,gave 10lbs and beat him 4.5L His form last season was poor but his 2 runs this term, especially with CC again, tells you he is in good order. If CC was in this off 155 (11-5) he would not be 16s.

Think we might have a good few defections if the weather forecast proves correct. Heavy rain forecast for Friday. Ground could easily go 'heavy' come Saturday.

Walkon still the one for me on paper, particularly as he has won on Soft/Heavy a couple of times and has the right profile for the race like last years winner Quantativeeasing.

Going to wait for final decs before deciding whether he is a bet.

I can see the appeal with Ghizao to a degree, esp at 16/1, but for me he just does not look happy in big fields. I would not back him until he is declared because connections have expressed a preference for smaller field races. If they did not think that suited him best then they would not have run him in the Amlin last time out (7 runners) and pushed his mark up 5lb. They would have just come straight here imo.

Had a bit on Ghizao at 25s+ on here with a view to hopefully laying off at half the price on the day for a freebie, surely connections will be keen to have this run in the race. Also had a few bob on Notus DLT as can see this one nearly being favourite on the day especially if the Nicholl's 4YO doesn't get a run. The G1 form in Ireland surely makes this one look one of the more likely candidates. Walk On has the appearance of one of those horses that might be unlucky and just keep finding one or two too good in these races, though I could be proved wrong (again). Good Luck to all players.

Anyone know if Wishful Thinking is definitely running?

I think he goes for the Peterborugh.

Then Menorah?

Actually dont know. Might be getting them mixed up.

Basically I don't want Hunt Ball off 11st 12 - would mean the horse I was thinking of would have a liability on board and carry more weight whereas if the top weights stayed in then the liability couldn't do the weight.

Remain of the my original view that NDLT is well treated on his form with Walkon and with his novice form in general in light of what has happened so far this season. Played at 12s and think that's very fair.

See Nicholls quoted today in RP saying that Unionist has another entry at weekend and anyway may just wait for the Feltham

connections want to run unioniste in this, think the novice entry is a precaution in case he doesnt get in

Nicholls on Unioniste " He's also in the Novice Chase on Friday, we may wait for the Feltham over Christmas"

hopefully the owners win

anyone like astracad...think he might be ready for a big run

Cristal bonus,will love the soft.If Bog warrior hadn't fell would have still taken an 8 length beating IMO.Without CB coming of the bridle.Looks a lot more accomplished this season,surely will come on for his last effort.

Fairly sure he is being aimed at the Peterborough denmanism

is there any reason ladbrokes are taking such a strong position on Notus De La Tour?

what do they know? they must have taken a lot of cash on the ante post thread alone, they've been a stand alone 12/1 for well over 24 hours now and he keeps getting cut everywhere else, as low as 7 or 8 in places

there was money for it in the paddy power then it didnt run, maybe they are trying it again, ive heard nothing about it running or not, but would'nt risk it..

Cheers for the warning,read on Sporting life he sends CB and Ghizao.So will keep my fingers crossed,wouldn't be surprised if it depends on Unioniste.

According to Pipe quotes in RP schooled well and on target for the race. Guess you never really know but if the rain comes he'll have a fabulous chance - happy to take Laddies money

Is there really any form which suggests Notus De La Tour is well handicapped? Seems to have been well beaten in a couple of good races in Ireland but mark doesn't really suggest he's got anything in hand unless huge improvement is expected.

With Huntingdon abandoned tomorrow there's got to be a good chance either Wishful Thinking or Menorah will head the weights here.

WALKON looks the solid option

yes i agree walkon is the solid option i had a good bet on him in the power and he ran a blinder but not sure he can replicate that and he has been priced accordingly i took the 12 notus yesterday as i believed that was the value in the race going soft at mo and with rain forecast all friday it could be heavy which will suit him but if walkon runs as he did in the power he will take the beating

Question: Why is this grade 3 Class 1 race a 48 hour final dec whereas other races aren't. Tried to look through the BHB site and this was all they said " In addition, Grade 3 Steeple Chases and Hurdle Races and
such other races as may be permitted by the British Horseracing Authority MAY have 48 hour Declarations,
at the option of the Racecourse Executive."

So how is the punter supposed to know this - shouldn't there be a hard and fast rule?

Unioniste first reserve, Divers going to Doncaster

When does there have to be a nonner by for reserve to get in? Bound to happen imo if rain arrives

1 tomorrow will defo be a NR or 2, but whether its in time or nt is another question!

Be wrong if Unioniste doesn't get in when, if as seems likely, Divers is heading to Donny.

Then again I'd prefer if he didn't run as he would be an obvious threat to my pick

9 in the morning is the cut off according to RP

There is a shat load of rain all morning tomorrow. I wouldn't be surprised if there are 15 runners by Saturday lunchtime which is why I backed Walkon yesterday.

The question mark with him is whether he can ''back up'', but if he can he has conditions to suit, form figures on NH Soft/Heavy 211032.

Ghizao out which is no surprise.

Booster I thought the same re NDLT. He is 2lb higher for when beaten 17 lengths by .. Flemenstar. On the face of it that might be OK, but it is hard to say for sure and I dont like the fact he is running fresh. This race usually goes to a horse who has had a run.

Yeah sint but NDLT is 12lb better off with Walkon for 8 lengths. Like Walkon I think he as good if not better fresh, will like ground and it was a decision based on price. Walkon is seemingly solid, PP form in this race is also a very strong trend but not for me at 5/1.

Clearly he needs to overcome a fall that was also in a big handicap, but the fact he was well punted seems to indicate stable think his mark is ok.

Would not discount either of the top two in the weights either, personally cannot fancy anything else

It is a weak renewal Roo. No stars in this one barring possibly Crystal Bonus if he can win off 157.

Wishfull Thinking is the class act in this field. Every chance in my opinion.

Have to agree with Sintonian on both points. Cristal Bonus represents last year's decent novices and stable won the Paddy Power with a similar type but have to say Unioniste will never be this well in again.

Was about to post the same thing Meat Loaf, at worst he's a solid ew option. His record over 21f reads F12116 and his record over 20f reads 1110F2122. He's clearly operating around his optimal distance, and has only been uplaced 4 times out of 14 attempts at 20-21f. He was a good 9 lengths ahead of the rest of the field in his second in the Old Roan giving away a good lump of weight, and he should have come on for the run. At 14s I'll happily take some ew action.

As well as Unioniste is in, apparently, who is going to withdraw in time to allow him to run?

The only possibility as I see it would be either of the top two who might now re-route to the Peterborough, now it has been saved, where they were originally being aimed. However CB will most likely have his ground on Saturday and I guess Nicholls will be have to persuade his owner

Was thinking on having a saver but probably just leave it to the day now with the unknowns, especially Unioniste

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8329580/unioniste-faces-gold-wait

Connections now face an anxious wait to find out whether he will get a run and that could hinge on whether Doncaster's meeting on Saturday gets the go-ahead.

The Ferdy Murphy-trained duo of Divers and De Boitron have both been declared with the race as their second preference.

Murphy said: "The plan is for both of ours to go to Doncaster if the meeting goes ahead. Divers is going to run in the two-mile-three-furlong race there and De Boitron goes for the three miler.

"But it was no more money for us to declare for Cheltenham as a second preference so with the way the weather is, it was a no-brainer."

The course at Doncaster is currently frozen, but temperatures are due to rise from Friday morning.

However at least one of the Murphy-trained pair would need to be formally withdrawn by 9am on Friday for Unioniste to be allowed to take their place in the final line-up.

Harry Derham will take the ride on Unioniste if he does line up, with his 5lb claim a big help considering he runs from 6lb out of the handicap.

"He's got his weight because he's got a rating of 137, but he gets a 7lb allowance as a four-year-old," said Nicholls.

"Hopefully he will get in because with Harry taking off 5lb he's got a nice-looking racing weight of 9-9."

I think lots of people are overlooking GOLDEN CHIEFTAIN. Didn't get the trip at Wincers last out but near on fav for that race at 5's SP. Talked up big time. Loved the go around there but was either tired, not in to right handed tracks and possibly made too much of the running under Joe. Tongue tied this time, down 4lbs and Crosse booked of min weight of 10st. I think he's set for a massive run. Paul Kealey doesn't think he jumps well enough but I can't see it myself. 140 over hurdles, better on OR that NDLT and more than 3 times the price. Could well surprise everyone. Same colours been carried to victory here with Hey Big Spender in a similar handicap trained by Colin T. I think this horse is no 25/1 chance. Intruigingly Magic Sign are only 14/1, and yes they employ Tom Seagul don't they ?

Don't think he's been overlooked on here.....got his own thread

er yeah, his own thread is 2 blokes slagging each other off and offering outside about a bet, I did read it yes but it didn't register, I tend to discard carp like that ;)

If the rain comes I think his chances improve too ...

Come on Roo, what you think of the Tizzard horse ?

Cannot say that didn't get the trip, has winning form over that distance iirc. Stable think a lot of him but from what he has shown, don't think he's particularly well treated.

However as has been said its not the greatest race so perhaps he's not he worst e/w bet. Agree that the rain will help and play to his stamina strengths

Good luck with your play harchi

Why is Unioniste first reserve off a mark of 137 (higher than two horses in field)?

4yo

Divers out, Unioniste in.

couldnt have golden chieftan myself despite having followed him over the last couple of years. was impressive at worcester but that really was a dog and spoon race where he beat tree's. went up too much in the handicap (15 lbs) for that run and as been well beaten whenever he's faced half decent competition. already been well beaten off a lower mark than this at chepstow (i admit tizzard did go easy on him after a slight error). this will be probably the most competetive race he's been in and i expect to see him with struggling out the back with 3 to jump. not one on my list!

tyronesam     11 Dec 12 18:36 
anyone like astracad...think he might be ready for a big run



Yep -I agree - this will do for me. Like it a lot

Not a particularly rivetting race especially with conditions likely to be atrocious, but for the sake of having a bet I've thrown a few quid at Tartak @ 33/1

unioniste... reminds me of mon parrain last year, no quality winning form in the book

NADIYA DE LA VEGA for me - looks a solid EW bet and for me she will be suited by the coditions, they reckon she stays 3m so stamina should not be an issue.

The difference in Unioniste and Mon Parrain is that Mon Parrain blew his mark of 133 in a race worth £6500 to the winner at Sandown then ran a great race from about 17lbs higher in the Topham from what I can remember. Nicholls has presumably learnt from that and it'll be a great surprise if Unioniste isn't rated loads higher than 137 at the end of the season. On the point of lack of experience, it's long been the belief that French horses are well schooled and he changed hands for a lot of money so is presumably highly thought of. Notus De La Tour is being touted on here but he's relatively inexperienced in big fields and the only time he's run in a field of more than 10 over fences, he fell at the 3rd but I'm sure he's got a chance, just showing how trainers are campaigning novices nowadays.

fair enough, i did have a little rethink after my post... heavy ground will throw up a surprise im sure

Get in

Well done bjg and all other Unioniste backers

Was fkin due one

well done

....and well done to the Chieftain EW backers for a nice 1/3rd., especially he jumped like a dog

gotta love these stat busters

So what is the rule about 4yo's with regards to weight in h'caps? Unioniste is down as racing from a mark of 143 with an OR of 137.

booster - IOU.......Cheers for the education.


HaylingBilly     03 Dec 12 17:18 
I am going in.  Thanks for the education. Learning all the time. Much appreciated.
booster     03 Dec 12 17:14 
You do if he's declared at the overnight stage but balloted out. You don't if he's not declared at the last declaration which i think will be 48 hours for this race. Money for him today suggests he'll be targeted at the race and took 11s with Stan James out of Saturday's winnings at the weekend. Good Luck if you're joining in, looks chucked in to me.

And being 6lbs out of the handicap (10.0 set at 136).

well done Booster,BJG,Hayling and others.

Walkon ran a smasher but had no chance conceding the weight to that thing. FFS

Thanks, nice to get it right occasionally and even better when you're on a run as we all know. The good times have to be enjoyed but you can never get carried away. You've really got to hand it to Nicholls and the lad who rode him got it spot on but also feel sorry for Walkon who's been beaten by 2 well handicapped horses and will probably go up another 5lbs for that. Just wonder where you go with a 4 year old who''ll probably be rated 150 over fences and is likely to need a rest after yesterday. Thought Tatenen might be the horse to take out of the race for the Ascot handicap he usually runs in in January.

Booster, it's my guess that WALKON will drop 2lbs after this result.

Walkon was beaten 11 lengths so you would hope the handicapper will leave him alone.

Hope he does but he was clear of the 3rd and miles ahead of another 6 finishers so he'll be lucky not to get an increase. As far as being beaten 11 lengths he was conceding weight to probably the best handicapped horse of the season so far.