Remember that Frankel is only a miler

what if Falbrav stuck to a mile and raced in uncompetitive races
what if El Gran senor stuck to 6f races

Both of the above horse would of had tremendous ratings if they chose suitable distances.

Timeform are getting carried away and should realize that all great horse are aimed at 10f-12f races and any superstars at other distances aren't really superstars until they win at 10f-12f

You post once every two years and so have effectively spunked 4 years worth on your insightful contribution to this thread. See you in 2016...........

"Only a miler" You are talking about the BEST MILER EVER!! imo.
I expect he will prob be just as gd over 10f. York in Aug, looking forward to seeing him for the 1st time in the flesh.

It's like saying that Usain Bolt is shiit because he has never won the 400 metres at a major event.

it's not the same as saying saying that Usain Bolt is **** because he has never won the 400 metres at a major event.


Most sprinters start at the 100m -200m and those who are not fast enough step up to the 400m.
A lot of sprinters hate running the 400m, even though they would probably be good at it
The fact is a lot of 100m/200m runnings would of made great 400m runners therefore its fair to say that the 400m is much less competitive than than the shorter races.Apart from Michael Johnson most 400m runners are failed 100/200m runners.

most milers are horses that aren't good enough to run 10f/12f and sprinters are horse that aren't good enough to run 1m races. Just like Usain Bolt and Yahan blake would win the 400m gold if they trained for that race its the same for the top 10f/12f horse they would clean up the mile races if they went for them.

If Frankel runs in at 10f in a g1 and wins easily, then I will say he is a great horse, otherwise he is just a miler.

And there was me thinking that horses were bred to excel at certain trips, that Black Caviar must be right old goat then, as she doesn't even try trips beyond 6f. Shadwell might as well send Green Desert for glue as all he is doing is producing inferior sh1te - owners should be sending their mares to Mull of Kyntyre instead, who is banging in 10f+ winners just about every week, why one scooted up in a class 5 claimer at Chester on Saturday.
What is your view of those flat horses who compete at further than 12f. Presumably it's not because they're not good enough for the top 10-12f races, as they would be tackling Frankel if that were the case. Maybe they're chasers who have a phobia of fences?

The disappointing thing with Frankel is the feeling that he would stay further but is being kept to a mile due to over-caution. His half-brother won a group race over 12f and his full-brother was beaten 1/2 length in the King Edward II Stakes.

Most 100/200m runners would not be world clash over 400m. Different energy system requirements

The 100m is the most prestigious event in athletics so noone capable of winning it would want to race further. However mile races are not the most prestigious races on the flat those are over middle-distances.

Revolver

You know as much about athletics as you do about horses.

When racing was in it's infancy in Britain, most races were matches,
many were run on the same day and usually involved races over ABOUT four
(4) miles, but what must be remembered those horses were owned by
workshy aristocracy who regularly behaved like the children they
were and we wonder why we have their childish offspring as our
stupid, childish political leaders.
EETERNAL EGO is one of them.

Name me one top class horse that hasnt been upped in distance from its two year old career to the summer of its four year old one

Are you seriously saying that Frankel is not top class purely because he has yet to run beyond a mile?

Of course he's a top class Miler, The best there has been, we dont know if he's top class over further because we havent been given the opportunity to see yet and the scary thing is that we may never see it because he's now so good over a mile that they may not go further.

imho if you have a world class horse then you have a duty to history to test him

Now back to the question, ive NEVER seen a top class horse stick to his maximum trip of a mile as a 2yo at the age of four, Have you??

Don't get me wrong zilzal I agree with your sentiments completely. I posted elsewhere that I thought he should have gone POW at Ascot though to be fair his performance at Ascot was astonishing and well worth seeing.

I do think he will turn up for the Juddmonte ( though there is one nagging doubt in my mind that might prevent this happening ) and then we will see.

To answer your question, I don't know of any but of course the churlish answer would be Frankel if he does stay at a mile

i will never put him with the past greats personally.

hes an exceptional miler that won **** races, simple as.

imo it doesnt matter how good a horse is if he doesnt go and actually win the great races how can he be compared. hes beating up the same horse over and over again.

the rock wouldve remained unbeaten in all the races frankel won, even tho yes frankel would beat the rock.

great miler yes, prob best ever but hes not nijinsky, or dancing brave. i like my champions to dominate every distance not just one against the same horse.

He's very, very good ILWAB. The Sussex last year might have beaten Dancing Brave. If he wins the 10f race at York
I'd say he's moving into the realms of Brigadier Gerard greatness. If (if) he wins a G1 12f race he would certainly
rank with the greatest ever. If it was the Arc, there would be no doubt left.

DB and Pebbles have always been my favourites... but that just shows I'm in my mid-40s !

he is a special horse pete, i would never say otherwise but he has been on the missing list for many big races now and is missing them for what?

he MAY not stay?

wont settle?

since when have these been reasons not to at least TRY a horse up in trip at least once? not to mention the gross exaggeration of him not settling, he has been a perfect horse since last years sussex running from the front no less winning going away and yet they still proclaim it  'he'll tell us when hes ready', i have never heard such nonsense in all my life. he is a top class horse, is rated the best ever according to TF and is nearing the end of his 4 yr old season and hes never seen beyond a mile? there is something seriously wrong with this. if AOB did the same thing, he would be absolutely castigated by the media and by 90% of the forum (and rightfully so) but because is henry hes 'handled him beautifully'.

i have never seen such cowardly campaigning in my life yet u hear sure what has he to be afraid of, he'll smash anything. yes he prob will but his connections are afraid to lose and its the worst thing to happen for fans of racing because we have to watch him beat absolute DROSS time and again. ill have the forum on my back now with all the g1 winners hes beat and i could care less how many g1 excellebration WOULD HAVE won. hes going to line up against faarh and strong suit on wednesday what on earth is the world coming to. he couldve been lining up against the others in the eclipse last week but his connections wouldnt have it, how sad is that? he should be tested time and time again, not just in once off races, the juddmonte historically doesnt even have big fields so what, if he runs over 10f and beats a couple of o briens we can now say hes the best ever? is this how it works? a perfectly good race last week gone by the wayside again with a top notch field we knew would be lining up and a very valuable prize that wouldve definitely helped cement his reputation as one of the greatest but instead he runs against strong suit again over 8. its all nonsense, just run the horse and lets see if he stays,settles, wins, loses....!

imagine actually having to listen to analogies with usain bolt and human sprinters? what is the world coming to? since when have we justified why a horse should or shouldnt run over a certain distance by what human beings in their relative field are doing(or not doing). theyll be looking at mating athletes with each other next to produce faster off spring. we all know guineas, derbys, arcs, king georges are deemed the best races in the calendar, its just the way its always been and we judge horses by their winning of these races, theres no problem winning the odd mile race like the guineas and even the sjp but at this point it it normally seen as a good point to step up if all the signs of brilliance are there, along with pedigree. u try it, u step them up, if they dont stay then grand, u know, he/she is a miler. even goldikova went up in trip at one stage but it was zarkava that shone and went on to win the best races on the french calendar anyway. so its beyond my comprehension why frankel still hasnt gone up and is beating up the smae old horses where there are good horses in better races to be won. they are TOO protective using him pulling as an excuse not to up him in trip, they will never have another like him, maybe he shouldve been an arc winner too but he has been denied a chance to prove how good he really is.

so even beating up a small field in the juddmonte is not enough for me, i will cheer him and will applaude him and hope he wins but its just a tad late in the day for me as i am slowly loosing some respect for henry the way hes campaigned him. just look at the horses we are comparing him, look at what they have done

look at this

Railway Stakes (1969)
Anglesey Stakes (1969)
Beresford Stakes (1969)
Dewhurst Stakes (1969)
Gladness Stakes (1970)
2,000 Guineas (1970)
Epsom Derby (1970)
Irish Derby (1970)
King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes (1970)
St. Leger Stakes (1970)

and beat a nostril in the arc when given too much to do!

now that is remarkable.

frankel is a great horse, i get dogs abuse on here for actually questioning him,i think most of the HR forum are about 18 and love him more (naturally), but they will not listen to anything unless u are proclaiming him the greatest. i think he prob would beat dancing brave , el gran senor, the brigidier over a mile but its not THAT conclusive to me but to even consider it shows the esteem in which i personally hold him and how good he truly looks when he runs. But i cannot say that frankel is a better horse than them and if we are talking about actual achievements on the track imo frankel pales in comparison , to BG , nijinsky, and DB anyway, for me at least, its just an opinion, and the reason i say it is simply look at the races thay have won, look at the horses they have beat. does beating excellebration 11L really better those achievements?not for me anyway.

look its a healthy debate but im just a bit fed up with the messin around now at this stage, i think henry let the horse down personally, ill still look forward to him on wed and hope i see another amazing performance but he'll never be Nijinsky to me!

There speaks a man who loves his racing!

I hope Henry reads that post. Well done.

ILWB is obviously young ....... and clueless. I doubt he's ever seen a racehorse in the flesh and wouldn't know the difference between Lingfield and Longchamp even if he tripped over a copy of Le Paris Turf

I sometimes wonder if he had lost on his debut - like Sea the Stars - whether we would be seeing him trying an extended trip now, ie., is the worry really about him settling or staying, or is it really about protecting his unbeaten record, which would seems safe is he stays at a mile? I'm looking forward to seeing him at York immensely, and while there seems little chance, would have loved to see him tackle a mile and a half.

losing on his debut wouldve definitely helped the horse imo,its the unbeaten record that has created all this. i sympathise with henry to an extent, it is great to see a horse never lose and is a special achievement but i could name horses that could do what frankel has if their connections decided to stick to optimum conditions. but few can do what the others have done and his trainer wouldnt even try and we've all seen what frankel can do so what does that say?

and i agree with andrew

i personally thought he shouldve run over 10f in last years champion stakes but had he won that im not sure we'd have seen him again but if he was always gonna train on as a 4 yr old then 12 wouldve been ideal then and we could be talking about say a king george run and if he won, then the arc to top it off. no matter what turned up, if he'd won those races id happily call him the greatest horse thats ever lived.

Frankel matched at 20/1 on for the Sussex. Now, tell me you don't have more money than sense if you bet like that.

depressing line up for the Sussex.

I know you have a healthy respect for SNA going left handed ILWAB - any re-assessment of Frankel after that?

Yes it should have happened sooner, but jeez that almost made it worth the wait. Hope he goes Arc now