Horse Antepost
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Just a few thoughts on today.
Before the race I did think that 1st time out and with the second best miler in Europe likely to be spot on for the race, that if Frankel was going to get beaten, today might be the day.
I was actually shocked by Frankel today; it was another truly remarkable performance that took your breath away.
Unless Frankel moves up to 10 furlongs he will have no opposition. Its like Coolmore to try and find a way of getting him beaten as they are sporting and like a challenge; but the task looks just impossible.
Excelebration was rated 133 by Timeform and this does not look especially high; his Group 1 win in France was brilliant. However, today he had had a race and was just spot on; Frankel was 1st time out on the back of a setback. I bet young Joseph was actually quite amazed to see Frankel quicken right away from him lie that.
I am not sure what Frankel has run today in terms of a rating.
Dubawi Gold looks to have run to his best and Excelebration maybe not to his best - this would give Frankel a rating of 140 for today; an astonishing effort for a colt not quite fit and with a rushed preparation.
The big downside for us all now is that the rest of the season will have no real tests. Even if Camelot remained unbeaten until after the Derby, I am not convinced a race against Frankel would be seen as commercially sensible as being thrashed 8 lengths would maybe not look to good for future stallion purposes.
I remember seeing Brigadier Gerard get beaten at York by Roberto, so anything is possible, but unless Frankel gets ill or injured, he as near to unbeatable as I have ever seen.
I personally believe he can put on maybe another 7 -10 lbs on today's effort, for greater fitness and he has the chance of proving to be the first 150 Timeform rated horse. He is just fabulous and in my opinion the best flat race horse I have ever seen, with maybe only Secretariat as a possible contender for the best ever anywhere.
Before the race I did think that 1st time out and with the second best miler in Europe likely to be spot on for the race, that if Frankel was going to get beaten, today might be the day.
I was actually shocked by Frankel today; it was another truly remarkable performance that took your breath away.
Unless Frankel moves up to 10 furlongs he will have no opposition. Its like Coolmore to try and find a way of getting him beaten as they are sporting and like a challenge; but the task looks just impossible.
Excelebration was rated 133 by Timeform and this does not look especially high; his Group 1 win in France was brilliant. However, today he had had a race and was just spot on; Frankel was 1st time out on the back of a setback. I bet young Joseph was actually quite amazed to see Frankel quicken right away from him lie that.
I am not sure what Frankel has run today in terms of a rating.
Dubawi Gold looks to have run to his best and Excelebration maybe not to his best - this would give Frankel a rating of 140 for today; an astonishing effort for a colt not quite fit and with a rushed preparation.
The big downside for us all now is that the rest of the season will have no real tests. Even if Camelot remained unbeaten until after the Derby, I am not convinced a race against Frankel would be seen as commercially sensible as being thrashed 8 lengths would maybe not look to good for future stallion purposes.
I remember seeing Brigadier Gerard get beaten at York by Roberto, so anything is possible, but unless Frankel gets ill or injured, he as near to unbeatable as I have ever seen.
I personally believe he can put on maybe another 7 -10 lbs on today's effort, for greater fitness and he has the chance of proving to be the first 150 Timeform rated horse. He is just fabulous and in my opinion the best flat race horse I have ever seen, with maybe only Secretariat as a possible contender for the best ever anywhere.
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Frankel was hugely impressive again today and he settled a lot better than at Ascot last time. Some will question whether 10f could find him out but as long as the horse settles like today I have no doubts about that trip.
Coolmore have never shirked a challenge so if Camelot wins the Derby I can see a matchup at 10f either in the Juddmonte or Champions Day. They don't appear to have anything else capable of challenging him this season after today.
A clash with Black Caviar would be the most anticipated duel in my lifetime but it seems unlikely. Even if she wins the Jubilee and July Cup the indications are she's heading back after. It's a shame there isn't a big 7f race that could've brought them together as that distance would've suited both.
In my opinion though, it will be a big mistake by Frankel's connections if they stick by their plan to never race him outside this country. The test of many a great sportsperson or team is to win outside their comfort zone.
I'm not asking for the horse to run on dirt but a run in France. Ireland or in the Breeders Cup Mile would mean he's done this. I feel Sir Henry wants to wrap him in cotton wool to an extent without taking big risks. If Black Caviar can do it then why not Frankel? It's the only way he'll truly be accepted globally as the world's best.
Coolmore have never shirked a challenge so if Camelot wins the Derby I can see a matchup at 10f either in the Juddmonte or Champions Day. They don't appear to have anything else capable of challenging him this season after today.
A clash with Black Caviar would be the most anticipated duel in my lifetime but it seems unlikely. Even if she wins the Jubilee and July Cup the indications are she's heading back after. It's a shame there isn't a big 7f race that could've brought them together as that distance would've suited both.
In my opinion though, it will be a big mistake by Frankel's connections if they stick by their plan to never race him outside this country. The test of many a great sportsperson or team is to win outside their comfort zone.
I'm not asking for the horse to run on dirt but a run in France. Ireland or in the Breeders Cup Mile would mean he's done this. I feel Sir Henry wants to wrap him in cotton wool to an extent without taking big risks. If Black Caviar can do it then why not Frankel? It's the only way he'll truly be accepted globally as the world's best.
Not sure I agree with the assertion that Sir Henry wants to wrap Frankel in cotton wool. After all, we've seen him 10 times already, and he's been running in top notch races most of the time. Contrast that with Henrietta Knight's 'cotton wool' treatment of Best Mate or Willie Mullin's handling of Quevega.
I'm not criticising either of those handlers, just using then to suggest that as a cahampion, we do get to see Frankel a decent amount of the time.
If others doubt he's the best in the World, let them come and take him on!
I'd love to see Black Caviar v Frankel over a mutually acceptable distance, and the most likely would be 7 furlongs (thought I think Frankel could operate over 6 furlongs).
Will Sir Henry decide to drop the beast back in trip to take on Black Caviar? Unlikely in my opinion. It needs someone with money to burn to organise an exceptional race with big prize money to get them together. Sadly, I can't see it happening.
I'm not criticising either of those handlers, just using then to suggest that as a cahampion, we do get to see Frankel a decent amount of the time.
If others doubt he's the best in the World, let them come and take him on!
I'd love to see Black Caviar v Frankel over a mutually acceptable distance, and the most likely would be 7 furlongs (thought I think Frankel could operate over 6 furlongs).
Will Sir Henry decide to drop the beast back in trip to take on Black Caviar? Unlikely in my opinion. It needs someone with money to burn to organise an exceptional race with big prize money to get them together. Sadly, I can't see it happening.
I agree with everything my good mate joci says,he is a good judge
How can it come down to prize money? KA doesn't need it and they won't mess Frankel about to run in a circus race, he needs to step up and win at 10f for when it's time in the barn. Why would they want to beat her anyway, breed with her unbeaten and any offspring would be much more valuable!
In my opinion though, it will be a big mistake by Frankel's connections if they stick by their plan to never race him outside this country. The test of many a great sportsperson or team is to win outside their comfort zone.
I agree with this - horse has been campaigned conservatively.
Take So You Think for example: In his last five races has run in Ireland, France, the UK, the USA and the UAE. His form is 14264. Also I can go further and argue that he's run on turf, dirt and tapeta.
All down to philosophies of the trainers I guess. O'Brien likes a challenge. Cecil is a little bit more protective of his superstar.
A bit of ambition - a step into the inknown - is nice to see now and again though from a spectator point of view (win or lose).
I agree with this - horse has been campaigned conservatively.
Take So You Think for example: In his last five races has run in Ireland, France, the UK, the USA and the UAE. His form is 14264. Also I can go further and argue that he's run on turf, dirt and tapeta.
All down to philosophies of the trainers I guess. O'Brien likes a challenge. Cecil is a little bit more protective of his superstar.
A bit of ambition - a step into the inknown - is nice to see now and again though from a spectator point of view (win or lose).
Cryoftruth
I agree, I've been following racing since '85, he's the best miler I've seen in that time and I've always believed he'll get further. Even allowing that the straight was much quicker on Saturday, he put up a huge performance on the clock, I have it 6lbs better than anything he did last year, which was already impressive. I never take it for granted that a horse will improve from 3 to 4, especially the very good 3yos, but he definitely has.
I am bewildered by the logic of Angus McNae, who reckons we need to see Frankel "dig deep for victory" in order to see him at his best.
I agree, I've been following racing since '85, he's the best miler I've seen in that time and I've always believed he'll get further. Even allowing that the straight was much quicker on Saturday, he put up a huge performance on the clock, I have it 6lbs better than anything he did last year, which was already impressive. I never take it for granted that a horse will improve from 3 to 4, especially the very good 3yos, but he definitely has.
I am bewildered by the logic of Angus McNae, who reckons we need to see Frankel "dig deep for victory" in order to see him at his best.
agree figgis and i dont believe Angus McNae will get his wish,as for the rest of his career,it is extremely unlikely that Frankel will have to "dig deep for any victory"
Great thread lads. The Irish Field have a blog on the subject: http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=1942&cid=5
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