Horse Antepost
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Now that Sir Henry is back in earnest, I had a look at his entries.
As he said in the Racing Post recently, he had a lot of big horses that were never going to make 2yo's, and he has (a bit like the old days) a number of superbly bred types that are simply bound to make major improvement.
The unraced Amaraja takes the eye, being by Galileo out of a Darshaan mare and is thuis a half sister to the top class Curtain Call.
Aquilla is certainly a possible as she is bred to stay although he mare has had quite a few chances to produce a top one and hasn't.
Fragonard looks very interesting to me indeed. She is very stoutly bred, being by Teofilo out of a mare by Trempolino (major stamina influence) out of another mare by Caerleon (another major stamina influence).
This mare (Delecieuse Lady) has already had 3 offspring rated over 100 and one really decent one in Blue Canari.
Fragonard looks sure to stay or even need 12 furlongs to show her best, so it was hugely promising when she ran a sort head second in a 7 furlong fastish ground Newmarket maiden last summer, before being put away for this year. One for the shortlist of huge priced punts for me hopefully.
Popular will be a sentimental bet for some people. She is a full sister to the brilliant Midday. She looked very promising too in a soft ground back end maiden (finished an unlucky in running fourth).
An entry like the one for her Mum in the Lingfield Oaks trial would be hugely significant.
There are other possibles entered by Sir Henry for the Oaks, but my 2 are Fragonard and Popular.
One thing to remember. Henry Cecil's record with Oaks runners is unbelievably excellent, averaging about 40% winners to runners. Now he has some ammo again, he looks sure to go close this year.
I must say its great to have him back
As he said in the Racing Post recently, he had a lot of big horses that were never going to make 2yo's, and he has (a bit like the old days) a number of superbly bred types that are simply bound to make major improvement.
The unraced Amaraja takes the eye, being by Galileo out of a Darshaan mare and is thuis a half sister to the top class Curtain Call.
Aquilla is certainly a possible as she is bred to stay although he mare has had quite a few chances to produce a top one and hasn't.
Fragonard looks very interesting to me indeed. She is very stoutly bred, being by Teofilo out of a mare by Trempolino (major stamina influence) out of another mare by Caerleon (another major stamina influence).
This mare (Delecieuse Lady) has already had 3 offspring rated over 100 and one really decent one in Blue Canari.
Fragonard looks sure to stay or even need 12 furlongs to show her best, so it was hugely promising when she ran a sort head second in a 7 furlong fastish ground Newmarket maiden last summer, before being put away for this year. One for the shortlist of huge priced punts for me hopefully.
Popular will be a sentimental bet for some people. She is a full sister to the brilliant Midday. She looked very promising too in a soft ground back end maiden (finished an unlucky in running fourth).
An entry like the one for her Mum in the Lingfield Oaks trial would be hugely significant.
There are other possibles entered by Sir Henry for the Oaks, but my 2 are Fragonard and Popular.
One thing to remember. Henry Cecil's record with Oaks runners is unbelievably excellent, averaging about 40% winners to runners. Now he has some ammo again, he looks sure to go close this year.
I must say its great to have him back
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COT, what's all this about the EPSOM Oaks? There's only one Oaks my friend! One other point about an intriguing thread, and that's your very generous estimation of Curtain Call as top class. I wish you sat in judgement of me in daily life!
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COT do you know if any of the above had any entries as 2 year olds? Where does King Henry usually prep his best Oaks horse. Didn't Lady Carla run as a 2yo at Leicester and break the clock and then in the Lingers trial? I ask because i think he loves that similarity of routine. Thank - you.
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think he likes nottingham as well
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COT I think you have picked the right two from the yard. I wa hoping to see that Symposia had an entry but reading the Weekender it looks like she will be one for later in the season.
Just one point though - Popular did not run in a soft ground maiden, it was Kempton |
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HRAC has 150 horses this season. 150 ffs! Talk about back in the big time.
Last season he got Vita Nova to improve out of nowhere (as a 4yo) having started the season in a handicap off 87 I think. It might make it dangerous to have any significant bets in the Oaks at this stage as the last few years horses have sprung from nowhere. Last years winner was 20/1 and the year before Snow Fairy was 16/1 after she won at Goodwood. Wading is too short at this stage imo. |
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Thinking about it, what are the odds for Champion Trainer ?? HRAC maybe a spot of Value ..
Richard Hannon doesn't have Canford Cliffs this year. |
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Best price 14s - Stoute best priced 6s after his shocker last season?
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"It might make it dangerous to have any significant bets in the Oaks at this stage as the last few years horses have sprung from nowhere."
Sintonian, you should hang your head in shame!!  Horses springing from nowhere are what it's all about, no?!?  |
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Defy the Odds will be pretty close to the top of the Warren Place fillies pecking order. Lovely sort
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Absolutley Headmaster. Not spotted any just yet though.
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With the moribund state of Betfair's Oaks market it wouldn't matter if you had, tbh.
Layers??? Are there any left or have we filled you all in?!? |
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so boys what do we think is the best and what are we backing. lovely thread.
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Howellsy
nice to hear from you my friend. Thank heavens the poxy jump season is nearly behind us once again. Only the English  Grand National to go and we're pretty much there!When I started following flat horses (after I got over my flirtation with useless dogs like red Rum) it was pretty easy to win on certain systems. One system was to simply back each one of henry Cecil's first 2yo runners up until July as he sometimes went quite a few runners before one actually lost. Another was backing unraced Henry Cecil 3yo's at Midland tracks (Nottingham, Leicester, Wolverhampton) - Lester piggott used to call it "poaching" when Henry sent one off to a Nottingham evening meeting. Of course the long standing system has been to back a Henry Cecil runner in the Oaks. It seems only yesterday when he won the triple crown with one of his fillies. My favourite personally was Diminuendo. I saw her win at York. Cantering she took up the running under Cauthen about 3 out and quickened right away from Summer Love. she was applauded from the stands at york right throughout the last quarter of a mile - amazing day. His best filly imo was Indian Skimmer. A grey leggy sort of filly that couldn't really act of fast going, but with some give.... When she won the Oaks (french) she slaughtered the great Miesque; from memory it was about 5 lengths in a canter. I saw her win the international at York too; she had an incredible turn of foot. At the time she was compared to Petite Etoile; but she was before my time. |
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I am not sure its such terrible value to back Henry's likeliest looking 2. You should with a bit of patience get over 40's about each of them and a tenner on each is not a huge amount down the drain. However I feel quite confident that he will get one to Epsom and, if he does, all the others will worry about it.
I cannot choose between Popular and Fragonard. I expect they will dead heat with Wading and Was and the other slow coaches (sorry Solieroffortune) fighting it out for minor honours. If you want one for the 2013 Derby, Henry has a nice unraced colt by Pivotal out of Midsummer; a half brother to Midday. Now he should make a 2yo - here comes the Dewhurst! |
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COT I'm more interested in one for next year's 2000 Guineas and have asked a few books for a price.
Reading between the lines in his stable tour, I think HRAC prefers Fragonard but she seems quite fragile - apparently a little behind the other fillies after a small setback this Spring |
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one of my fav cecil fillies was all at sea, though she cost me a packet when cruising up to user friendly at epsom, only for her to be out stayed by what turned out to be a great filly
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roobuck
let me know how you get on. The colt for next year's Derby and this year's Dewhurst (Midday's half sibling) is unlikely to make the Dewhurst, 2000 Guineas or Derby without pretty fancy surgery as he's actually a filly! |
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COT - bred in Thailand I see
First reply came back with not prepared to give odds |
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Roobs, where is the betting for champ trainer ?
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cot - minor and largely irrelevant point, but just for accuracy, fillies are allowed to run in both the 2000 Gns and the Derby. At least five fillies have won the Derby and at least a couple have won the 2000gns. So no fancy surgery required
 Cant be bothered to check but think the Dewhurst is open to fillies too. |
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Here you go sint
http://www.oddschecker.com/horse-racing-betting/racing-specials/season-specials/2012-british-flat-trainers-championship/winning-trainer |
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Bred in Thailand, brilliant roobuck.
I was at Leicester on the Saturday night that Dimenuendo won her maiden by 10 lengths if my memory serves me. Also backed Lady Carla at nice odds for the Oaks, Henry did like to target the Oaks. Not sure of his strength in depth now though. One time he had so many good fillies that he knew were he stood in relation to other trainers. As Cryoftruth says Fragonard looks interesting. |
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At some stage someone must name their horse Ladyboy, couldn't tell you though if it will be a Colt, Filly or Gelding.
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COT I have finally got one price back for 2013 2000 Guineas
So yes a well bred colt in training with HRAC, but unraced and the race is obviously over a year away.........40/1. But bless them they have said I can have up to £1K on. And I have been saying that Much Improved is poor value |
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I am not surprised.
A few year ago I saw a novice chaser at Carlisle hack up in a novice chase. I loved the way he jumped and went everywhere for odds for the following year's Gold Cup. I got a load of quotes including as low as 25/1 - for a once raced chaser who had won a £1,200 at Carlisle! The horse turned out to be very good - The Grey Monk. However I wrote a letter to the Racing Post that was published telling everyone about the "bravery" of the bookies. I suggest you do the same. Light should be shone on such scandalous odds. I mean 500/1 about your fun bet would not be over generous. |
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great recent news and what a boost to the yard
Shame on those who doubted the yard motives over recent events aswell , One of the greatest bits off news ive ever heard , apart from birth of my children off course |
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The colt for next year's Derby and this year's Dewhurst (Midday's half sibling) is unlikely to make the Dewhurst, 2000 Guineas or Derby without pretty fancy surgery as he's actually a filly!
I know this is nit picking but fillies can run in all three of those races. No surgery required! On topic I really like the look of some of these and will be looking out for them when they run, good luck. |
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See Fragonard is entered up on Thursday.
If she is declared and looks like she will will run, will throw a small bet at her e/w @ 33s |
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Definitely worth a punt in the non runner no bet market on wednesday for me.
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Who goes NRNB on Wednesday rowley?
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