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The Ballydoyle pace angle...
How do you see the race being run..... Discuss.
Im of the opinion that a strongly run race will see St Nick run very very well, providing he is in there to run his race and not as AOP would say ' he wont mind ensuring a nice even pace if no-one else wants too'
He was caught napping in the King George at the crucial time when they began to quicken under the son and that complete farce of a trial should be best ignored last time.
How do you see the race being run..... Discuss.
Im of the opinion that a strongly run race will see St Nick run very very well, providing he is in there to run his race and not as AOP would say ' he wont mind ensuring a nice even pace if no-one else wants too'
He was caught napping in the King George at the crucial time when they began to quicken under the son and that complete farce of a trial should be best ignored last time.
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Interesting point. It wouldn't be the first time AOB has used a G1 winner as a pacemaker.
I hope TB hasn't been demoted....that would be a new low for Coolmore imo.
Pace angle is fascinating now. Maybe they really do harbour doubts about SYT getting 12f?
Pace angle is fascinating now. Maybe they really do harbour doubts about SYT getting 12f?
Shareta will set a good pace for Sarafina & Reliable Man.
There is not a chance SYT will get beaten for lack of stamina,imo. You dont finish 3rd in a melbourne cup on Soft if you cant get 1m4f.
There is not a chance SYT will get beaten for lack of stamina,imo. You dont finish 3rd in a melbourne cup on Soft if you cant get 1m4f.
From what I've seen of the Melbourne Cup it looks like a two furlong burn up.
I feel TB is more adaptable in terms of pace and positioning (if he runs)thats why i think it would be disappointing to see SNA be sacrificed to have a battle with the french pace makers
The Pace scenario is fascinating, half the country guessed wrong in the King George although i couldnt by any stretch imagine this as a crawl, the Gosden one will imo be one of the 1st to commit unless its really hot up front, maybe with SYT and Workforce in its slipstream
Remember Coolmore did not use a pacemaker for SYT in the 10f Eclipse after their "bad day" at ascot with a p/m. So with that & Seville's withdrawal, I think they're running no p/ms. Might be congested on that final bend.
No way will SNA make the running - why would SYT want a strong pace anyhow it's a 10f horse?
Why would you need a pacemaker in The Arc?
'There was no pace' has hardly been a common excuse for beaten horses in the race over the years .It is very much harder for 20 odd horses to dawdle along for a mile than for 4 or 5 to do so in a typical Longchamp race like the Niel.
They would certainly not run SNA as a pacemaker anyway , just inconceivable . Even by their standards this horse has been seriously hyped. He wa s talked about in terms used for absolute superstars, we were led to believe he was likely to end up rated 135 or something .
As it is he seems likley to finish his career rated low 120s, that is quite a come down, but still Group 1 standard and worth a stud career . And there may still be a few breeders who will have been influenced enough by the 'walk on water' stuff to believe he was better than the form book showed. But all that will go out of the window if his finale consists of trying to outsprint 500/1 shots for 6 furlongs before being swallowed by the field. What horse used as a pacemaker has been a success at Stud? And people will be less inclined to give AOB the benfit of the doubt with future colts whose acheivements are less than their reputation . 'Oh he said that about the one they sent pacemaking'' . So it would be harmful to the way Coolmore operate in a fundamental way.
'There was no pace' has hardly been a common excuse for beaten horses in the race over the years .It is very much harder for 20 odd horses to dawdle along for a mile than for 4 or 5 to do so in a typical Longchamp race like the Niel.
They would certainly not run SNA as a pacemaker anyway , just inconceivable . Even by their standards this horse has been seriously hyped. He wa s talked about in terms used for absolute superstars, we were led to believe he was likely to end up rated 135 or something .
As it is he seems likley to finish his career rated low 120s, that is quite a come down, but still Group 1 standard and worth a stud career . And there may still be a few breeders who will have been influenced enough by the 'walk on water' stuff to believe he was better than the form book showed. But all that will go out of the window if his finale consists of trying to outsprint 500/1 shots for 6 furlongs before being swallowed by the field. What horse used as a pacemaker has been a success at Stud? And people will be less inclined to give AOB the benfit of the doubt with future colts whose acheivements are less than their reputation . 'Oh he said that about the one they sent pacemaking'' . So it would be harmful to the way Coolmore operate in a fundamental way.
And though i say he will end up rated low 120s , there is still a chance , if he can run 3 or 4 lengths better than he ever has before, that he could go very close, maybe even win
That's a tall order , but not inconveivable, and they would feel so vindicated.
Actually i think they would rather St Nicholas won than So You Think , though of course it is unlikely. They would then be acclaiming the Champions of 10f and 12f.
That's a tall order , but not inconveivable, and they would feel so vindicated.
Actually i think they would rather St Nicholas won than So You Think , though of course it is unlikely. They would then be acclaiming the Champions of 10f and 12f.
All very good posts, all underpinned with the main factor that drives Coolmore. Reputation at Stud.
This can be seen in the 'perfect 10f horse' packaging that has now been wrapped around SYT.
Looking forward to Sunday.
This can be seen in the 'perfect 10f horse' packaging that has now been wrapped around SYT.
Looking forward to Sunday.
Treasure Beach pushes the pace and will go on if needed IMO.
Has run good races from 'in the van' and it'd be the only way he'd have a chance in the race so nothing to lose.
Really don't think O'Brien fancies he's gonna win this. 3 bullets? Hmm...
Has run good races from 'in the van' and it'd be the only way he'd have a chance in the race so nothing to lose.
Really don't think O'Brien fancies he's gonna win this. 3 bullets? Hmm...
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