Figgis

Hi SoF. Yes it was another good effort from SYT, I still have the Eclipse has his best performance, I rate him 3lbs below that today. His best form gives him a good chance in the Arc, but I prefer Nathaniel's prospects, as I think the wfa will just give him the edge and importantly he remains a fresh horse, whereas SYT has had a few testing races. Unless Sarafina shows a bit more in her prep I'll be having a decent bet on Nathaniel, but I'm sure that won't put you off your lad [;)]

Do you guys think he'll head there though? I would have thought the Champion would be the race for him.

Figgis thanks as always for your assessment there, very much appreciated.

I was in Ascot the last day when your fellow Nathaniel won the King George and he was massively impressive. Looking back over his season I'm surprised they didn't put him in the Derby in Epsom - to be honest I think he would have won it.

Good luck with your bet my friend, it'll be some battle between us in that last furlong in Paris

Dunno, I suppose it'll depend on how he comes out of today's race and how he's working nearer the time compared to SNA. If he's going well I reckon they'll probably go for it thinking it looks an open race.

Gents ......

Aidan O´Brien: "So You Think has gone very relaxed and probably would like his races a bit closer together at this stage. He was there to be shot at in front, we knew that the filly was going to be stalking him and that he could have been vulnerable to her today. All the options are open to him now, it´s up to the owners to decide where to go with him and with Pour Moi being out of the Arc that door is now open for him as well."

OK. A mile and a half on softish ground? Would be a layer myself.

No chance of winning the Arc

Couldn't have him for the Arc either. Champion Stakes at Ascot most likely.

Figgis, do you bet over Jumps ?

I used to, sint, but not anymore. Too much racing now so something had to give, plus I began to enjoy some of the visual aspects of jump racing less and less, particularly the dross meetings, so it became an easy decision for me to drop the jumps. Why do you ask?

No reason Figgis. Just wondered that is all. Lots of punters tend to be big fans of one code or the other.

not like you to show an interest in ballydoyle animals, soldier [;)]

Just a passing interest really mythical, not like an obsession or anything

Hope all is well with you mate

Should be some race Figgis my friend

Yes, SoF, SYT will have a great chance if he runs his race. Personally, I can't see the trip being a problem and the soft ground over there is often exaggerated. My main concern with him is that he's already had a busy campaign and some taxing races. I don't think that Irish Champion Stakes win was the ideal prep for the Arc, but he's been very tough so far so you never know.

I wasn't that impressed by anything in the French trials. Sarafina may well have more in her locker but I'm not convinced and I certainly won't be taking the current price about her to find out. Reliable Man returned to his decent Prix du Jockey Club form but I don't think it's decent enough to win this year's Arc. I always thought Meandre's previous win was overrated. Galikova is a good filly but I think she's had a couple of hard races recently and I'm doubtful she'll be at her best.

I started out wanting to oppose Workforce, as I prefer a horse still going forwards and I don't believe Workforce has improved since last year, nevertheless, his best form is still good enough to win the race again and he's had a nice break so his prep looks ideal. I reckon the winner will be either Workforce or Nathaniel, whichever runs to their best on the day and I'm now leaning towards Workforce. Such dithering usually means I'd be better giving the race a swerve

So You Think wasn't trained to his maximum for the Irish Champion - if I recall an interview from John Magnier after the race. Might have had a few close finishes but I'm sure the idea behind leaving him short in the Tatts Gold Cup / POW / Irish Champion was so that he would still have plenty left to do himself justice in the Arc. I don't see his campaign being a problem.

Though I agree 100% about the ground conditions being exaggerated.

I have SYT's best performance as the Eclipse, for me his Irish Champion win was only 3lbs worse, the time was pretty fast and I can't really see how there would've been much left to work on, but that's just my view.

Excellent stuff as always from you there Figgis and I agree with much of what you say. As SYT says in his post, So You Think has had a fair few races this season but he's got plenty left to offer. For sure he wasn't trained to the max for Leop and without doubt he was nowhere near his peak in Ascot in June.

Figgis I think you're right that Workforce and your fellow Nathaniel are the two to beat and it should be some battle there inside the distance. Nathaniel in particular caught the eye in the parade ring when I was there in Ascot the last day to watch St Nicholas Abbey. He's a lovely looking athletic type of colt and no doubt at all that he'll find further improvement in Paris.

Well I am prepared to put my faith in A P O'Brien. I defended the Prince of Wales' run saying it was a risk worth taking in preparation for bigger targets and now the time is coming, I will put my view to the test.

I don't think they will have asked SYT for everything in the Irish Champion given that the race is normally a Coolmore benefit anyway. Sure, he won't have won it if less than say 90% but they'll surely have left room for plenty of improvement too. There's also the improvement which may be brought about as a result of an increase in distance.

Agreed SYT - look at the way he ran in the Melbourne Cup and only narrowly missed out. Many say he didn't stay that day - but he almost did! A mile and a half round Longchamp on half decent ground might just bring out the superstar we all know he is!

'A mile and a half round Longchamp on half decent ground might just bring out the superstar we all know he is! '

I think only one man can agree with you there sof, unfortunately his forum username is so you think, if syt wins the arc, i'll genuinely stop posting on here,much to you delight of course

*your [smiley:crazy]

surprised that some seem to think SYT wasn't fit at Ascot, wasn't fit at Leopardstown, both top class Group 1 10f races?

Is it possible that people just finding excuses why SYT not winning by 10 lengths every time to justify all the hype, and maybe that's just as good as SYT is....... albeit he is clearly high-class over 10f.

Little chance over 12f at Longchamp if they go a decent gallop, stamina will be well exposed as it was at Ascot and very nearly at Leopardstown.

King George was a farce and a throw out race, Workforce definitely better than Nathaniel. Sarafina can definitely get closer  this time and the best 3yos are Meandre and Reliable Man. No way Fabre chuck away 100k on a supplementary entry

SOF, Do you think that his efforts in the Ascot Gold Cup maybe have took their toll on Fame and Glory??, he hasnt looked all that enthusiastic to my eye in his following runs and i thought that the exertion over the longer distance might have had something to do with it

Pedrobob, whether the King George was a throw out race or not, Nathaniel had already proved he was a better 3yo than Reliable Man and certainly better than the overrated Meandre, when winning at Ascot in a good time.

fair enough Figgis, you obviously did not rate highly the Grand Prix de Paris?

surprised that some seem to think SYT wasn't fit at Ascot, wasn't fit at Leopardstown, both top class Group 1 10f races?

I'm afraid I can't help you on that. The horse was fit at Ascot and Leopardstown and I'm not sure who is saying he wasn't? As you say yourself, both are top class Group 1 10f races.

However he certainly wasn't tuned up to run to his peak. Why would you peak for the Irish Champion and not the Arc when clearly the latter is the race that will take more winning? Ballydoyle have evidently learned from past campaigns. Same with Royal Ascot. Do you want the horse peaking in mid-June or the beginning of October?

Ped, like a few French cards it wasn't easy to be totally confident rating it from a time angle. There were a few slowly run races and I can see why some rated the race quite highly. However, Reliable Man obviously ran below form, as did Treasure Beach, which wasn't totally unforeseen given how busy he'd been. Seville hasn't exactly endorsed the form since. The main thing for me was the visual aspect, Meandre was under pressure from some way out and to my eyes he just stayed on past horses that had run hard early.

Might that not be the case in the Arc though?? ive seen plenty of arcs where they go hard and the race totally changes around a furlong out.

This could be the scenario this year and the one who plays last could win

Yes that could happen in the big race, zil, but I would be surprised if a horse that was under pressure a long way from home to the likes of Seville and a below par TB would be good enough.

Im personally going to play Snow Fairy if shes big on the PMU and the goings good or better, her time of year and getting plenty over cover could suit, but i wouldnt rule out the Fabre one altogether

Well no, I wouldn't rule him out, he's obviously a decent 3yo and it's not like he has a huge amount to find. I have his best run only 4lbs behind Nathaniel, young horses can easily improve that much and more even at this late stage of the season. It's just that he doesn't strike me as an obvious improver and he makes no appeal at the price.

There's no evidence Reliable Man was below form in the GPDP, and Seville certainly wasn't below form as he'd just run a blinder in the Irish Derby (form which puts Meandre very close to Pour Moi if you assume Treasure Beach ran to form at Epsom and in Ireland, and Seville in Ireland and France). Given decent ground which will allow him to display his excellent turn of foot Meandre has a strong chance in an open year - the fact Fabre still plans to supplement is a tip in itself.

No argument that Seville ran up to his best in the GPDP, I find it hard to believe anyone could think that was RM's best form though but each to their won.

*own

It wasn't. Trainer stated after and since that the going was too quick for him that day.

zilzal you are absolutely spot on re Fame And Glory. He hasn't shown any sparkle since Ascot in June.