AYR GOLD CUP.

WED 17TH

Thank you very much DABHAND.

Thank you very much DABHAND.

our jonathon for me if its entered

241 entries

You got anything lined up DAB ? Dont suppose Courageous will get in ...

Huge entry, DABHAND, the usual puzzle which occupies me and my spotting a plot horse, had a few down the years.
A workmate used to carry around a small pocket sized RACING AND FOOTBALL OUTLOOK annual at work and one day he asked me if I knew what the entries for the AYR GOLD CUP were, naturally I asked him why he wanted to know, he said that AUDREY JOAN had gained a 2yo handicap rating of 8st 9lbs, I checked and she was entered but had not run since the 1000 guineas in may, but she had a weight of 8st 9lbs in the AYR GOLD CUP, we both backed weekly until the day and she duly won at 20/1 if I remember correctly, ridden A. Barclay for ERIC COUSINS.

^ what year was this bazzar ?

Not certain of year, but the place I worked at would have been about 1962/3/4, the very unusual circumstances were the weight she was given in the AYR GOLD CUP, in normal circumstances she would have had to carry about a stone more.

I can find a record of Audrey Joan winning The Portland in 1966 - but not Ayr Gold Cup.

Has anyone got a site address whereby we can view past winners of big handicap winners?
Napit only goes back to SO CAREFUL in AYR GOLD CUP.

I must admit that memory does play tricks and am astounded that I could have got mixed up, so I just don't understand my loss of memory.
I also remember A. BARCLAY winning the Lincoln in 1967 I think for DENYS SMITH.

1969 Foggy Bell

Yes that was the one.

Only ever backed 2 winners of this event both in consecutive years at 33-1!! Not So Silly and So Careful..


Not a sniff since

FACTS and ZILZAL, do any of you know a site which gives past winners of big races?
Egualita, Roman Warrior, Able Albert,Final Shot, Funfare Wane,1983 winner which was Easterby's, some others but can't just remember at the moment.

Sorry Baz, not really

Thanks anyway ZILZAL.

Got the above info via Google. Either by entering a search on either Race,Horse or Trainer( or a mix of them). Some sites, give more info. than others.

But it is VERY important how the question is phrased I think, I used to keep old form books and such, which I regularly perused, since the internet have dispensed with them, ruing it now.
Thanks anyway FACTS.

Yeh, I used to have shelves of old form books. Years and years of the old format Raceform Notebook, pink sheets,red cover = Flat,Yellow sheets,Green cover NH. Inserts on a weekly basis , using the lacing to secure them in the folder. Really miss that !!Happy days.

Its funny how we view things, despite having the net i still keep the weekly pull outs from the weekender, sometimes time away from the screen just reading it casually reaps dividends

Just as a matter of interest google a filly named Sceptre, ran third with VERY light weight in Lincoln at 3, then look what she won after.
1902/3 I think.

Any body got the entries yet, thanks in advance?

Ante - post book now up. Any early fancies ? Presumably Hoof It wont run ? Which atm leaves Pepper Lane for me.

Macs Power, then Kanaf.

Love this race ever since I went in 1999 and some Ian Balding/Fallon horse pipped my 33-1 punt on Evening Promise. Have had a good degree of success since including Presto Schinko (had same profile of hannons other winner Wildwood Flower) and Regal Parade (took the view you needed a 7f horse as it was pretty soft that day). Also regretted not backing Quito as I really fancied it but they intereviewed Tony Culhane the day before and he said he had no chance being drawn on the wrong side. Barstweward. Redford last year also slipped through the net after noticing dandy had taken the noseband off it since being moved from Ryans.
Really surprised Victoire De Lyphar isnt entered. I would have taken short odds that this one would land a big handicap this year. Does anyone know if its injured?
Thought Pastoral Player had a big shout after covering half of Sussex downs in the Stewards Cup but just wondering whether Hughie has the big 7f handicap at Ascot in September in mind as hes got him in over 7f at Goodwood on Saturday. Surely a penalty for Ayr would knacker his chance?
Kaldoun KIngdom has to come into it. Won the Silver Cup 2 seasons back and ran a cracker last year in 7th, 4th on his side behind two group race sprinters in Genki and Hitchens and now 6 lb lower with a 7lb claimer riding him now. Very unlucky last time at Mussleburgh too.

With the experience and hindsight, once I have made my mind up
I don't take any notice of what anyone else says, I remember when
Dandy was asked which of his horses might win the race and he said he would have to get the opinion of the owners, 3 owners Kevin Keegan and wife, who incidentally bred the horse and David Nicholls,
the horses name FUNFARE WANE.

My fancy for this years 'charge' is York Glory following the impressive victory at York.

My concerns are Hoof It (but i think will have too much weight) and Eton Rifles.

Aptly all ridden by Fallon so it will be intresting to see which he rides.

YORK GLORY is currently 33/1 with SidJames and generally 20s elsewhere

Is there an acceptance stage today, please?

Why is betting suspended?

Yes acceptance stage today.

Thank you oasis d.

Son of the cat looks lobbed in imo, Holland found far too much trouble on Saturday and very interesting if turning up. Not sure it will though

backing RACY in the consolation race, the BRONZE Cup.

is eton rifles turning up?

High Standing has dropped down a bit in the weights, looked to be coming to his old self recently

with the weather forecast for the area, will be borderline raceable on Thursday at least. I'm really interested in KALDOUN KINGDOM now the rain has come. Back down below his last winning mark, he now looks like Fahey's no.1 hope.

Runs well after a break, twice C&D including the Silver Cup 2 years ago and all his wins have come either first week of season or September /October.

Was campaigned over wrong trip / ground earlier in year to protest rating, just needs a good draw now IMO

Do you think KK needs soft ground TBS? I like him, as i mentioned in my earlier post and lack of a recent run isnt a biggie as won first time up last season but looking back he surely wouldnt want it any worse than G/S would he? His best run arguably was his second to Hawkeyethenoo at York last season off 101 on G/F and he won the Silver Cup the tear before on Good ground. That said although its currently soft I wouldnt be surprised if it dries out to G/S by Saturday as Ayr looks set to miss most of the heavy rain that the west coast is getting and with drying wind and the fact Ayr can dry out pretty quickly too.

Any have trends for this, re weight and draw?

My two against the field have to be :-

Pepper Lane - such a progressive animal, and,
Hoof It - the class act by far ( not sure he'll run though, with that weight )!

He's not !!

betilyerded

As you say I suspect will dry out to dead-ish on Saturday, perfect for KK.

I wonder if Son Of The Cat will turn up. I know he was well drawn but he demolished a big field in the Stewards Cup consolation (was really fancied for the main race but didnt get in - not that he would have beaten Hoof It anyway!) and the trainer picked out this race as his next target, just keeping him on the go in the meantime. I liked the way he put the race to bed that day, really powering away and not stopping. Hes a big bull of a horse, handles g/s but unproven on worse and being dirt bred may not like it soft. Confessional franked the Goodwood form with his run in the Portland last saturday and at 25-1 must rate a decent value bet if the ground does dry out. I just cant fancy any of Dandys this year simply due to the cloud over his yard, Macs Power has the form to win - particularly on a flat 6F which seems to suit well - but always seems to get going too late. Im not even going to consider the draw as it really is of no consequence these days, whatever anyone else may say, it just confuses the issue.

More heavy rain again in Ayrshire this morning. Know Ayr is fast drying but will be surprised if not soft ground come Saturday.

Notice money with bookies for Irish challenger Croisultan this morning.Looks like will like the ground and still 50s with

Baldybet/Tote ( if you can get on )

Liam McAteer eh! Nearly won it a few years back when Mr de Sousa thought he'd won and was punching the Ayr but Seb Sanders did him on Presto Schinko on the other side. Ooops. Not sure he's that well handicapped, particularly with Macs Power on their running in the Wentworth Stakes at Donny last year. Money for Kaldoun Kingdom though and the 33's now gone.

Expect KK's price to contract again today as its Pual keelys selection in the Weekeneder. They also go for Pastoral Player who I would really fancy if the ground had stayed dry as Hughie Morrison always says the horse needs good  ground every time he runs him. Going still Soft g-s places as of this morning, dry Weds & Thurs then heavy rain expected Friday a.m. which will probably put them back to where they are today.

Thank you for the weather updates, PLEASEDON'T and BETTIL, much appreciated, I tried to get something going on the Haydock Sprint, but I live too far from the course and hoped it would be picked up by someone very close to the course.

kk now 16,s with ppive followed in at 33,s hope this ones landed for the antepost brigade

Eton Rifles and Hawkeye are the two for me at this stage. I really fancy Hawkeye

I've taken some of the 16s available with Bsports on Hawkeyethenoo. I'm sure it'l shorten and may even go off favourite, especially with the local support on the day.

16-1 chance Nasri just misses cut for Ayr Gold Cup

Secret Asset, Reignier, Kanaf, Norville and Gramercy taken out of Ayr Gold Cup

Draw over.

Ayr Gold Cup Draw 2011
1.Castles In The Air
2.Light From Mars
3.Brave Prospector
4.Kaldoun Kingdom
5.Mayson
6.High Standing
7.Croisultan
8.Mac's Power
9.Son Of The Cat
10.Majestic Myles
11.Pepper Lane
12.Our Jonathan
13.Ancient Cross
14.Darajaat
15.Colonel Mak
16.Eton Rifles
17.Waffle
18.Dungannon
19.Evens And Odds
20.Hawkeyethenoo
21.Tajneed
22.Pastoral Player
23.Below Zero
24.Group Therapy
25.Anne Of Kiev
26.Breathless Kiss
27.Regal Parade

I cnt believe high standing's price massive chance for me have had good win bet at 40's and ew 5 places at 33's had small ew also castles in the air well handicapped with 7lb claimer on board

yes i agree 33 castle too big get on before jim steams in

you agree with yourself?

KK supporters, why is Hanagan not on KK, please. I assume he will have had a choice?

Pretty wet couple of days ahead with rain coming in tomorrow morning and forecast to be pretty constant in the afternoon.  Thundery showers forecast for Saturday too.  Lovely day today mind you, warm, dry and still and a real autumnal nip in the air this evening.  Looks sure to be soft at the least

Lol Tucho.

Has that guy just made a mistake and posted under the wrong account ?

Morning chaps rain has just started (steady) at 8.00 this morning - good bit earlier than forecast but there is a stiffish breeze this morning.  Could well be soft by start of racing today.

DABHAND, must apologise, I cut out all of the big handicap weights
from the Racing Post, I did this with the Challenge cup where the entries had only the official handicap mark ( NASRI 97) and the max field in that paper was 16, now Thursdays paper has 18, but earlier in the week they had the weights for Melbourne Cup but the date for the race was 8th of November, yet it has been the FIRST Tuesday in November as long as I can remember.

eton rifles for me. nice middle draw so teddy can go either side. need a 7f horse tomorrow, race right up eton rifles avenue .

Sint...the interesting thing about the Showrunner1 post is that this guy joined in 2002 and has only made 3 posts! 2 of them on this thread.....obviously he has another account which he forgot to log-on with but I still think the initial post about High Standing is significant.

Im on at 40s, thought last week(see page 1) that this animal looked to be on the way back, 3lb better off in this race as well, backed the irish one at 16-1 as a saver, looks the type for this race with big field form

That seems a fair shout. With all the money coming for him today I have had a small e/w at the remaining 33s (only 4 places   - hope that doesn't come back to haunt me).

My main bet will be Son of the Cat any of whose last 3 runs give him a serious chance. He is very consistent and the ground isn't too much of a worry for me (1st,2nd,2nd & an unlucky 5th on his only 4 runs on G/S). SDS is a very pleasing booking.

The class 4 sprint and Bronze Cup were won by horses drawn low. Sure, a couple of high drawn horses have placed and Jeanie Galloway nearly won, but by the time there is half a furlong to run there seems to be an advantage to great to claw back on the far side. Even the 6f Nursery the runners drawn low dominated and stalls 1 & 3 fought out the finish.

yeah jeannie's group was MILES behind for most of the race, was a monster run given how far back that side was

Indeed. She stayed on strongly because she gets 7f.

Fahey won the Bronze, Silver and then finish 2nd in the Gold Cup last year. He has 5 drawn low tomorrow and I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of his go very close.

Well, i'll chance it that he's been messing with Regal Parade all year.

I had thought the horse was in decline but to see it line up here just spells a huge 'Oh...right' to me.

I'll pay to find out.

I agree Jair. I've been coming around to that way of thinking the last day or two. Looking at the form though it makes me then think similar about High Standing who on 2009/10 form is not 8lbs worse than Regal Parade and should equally like some juice. Thats the trouble in this race you could end up backing half the field. Everybody keeps saying you need a 7f horse to win this race but it could be argued that half the field are 7f horses. Although I bet nothing in this field would've got closer to Goldikova last year than Regal Parade did over 7f.

I had selected Hawkeyethenoo and Eton Rifles as my main two versus the field and I have backed Hawk already but I think the rain is against him myself in a big way.

I really liked the run of Tax Free ar Donny last Saturday, I think he is decent bet for the Silver with the extra half a furlong (IMO he was staying on best of all last week over 5.5). Worried about the ground for Tax Free aswell though.

I think you definitley want a 7f horse if your drawn high.

With all the rain since the Bronze Cup there is no way of knowing what the bias will be today. We wont know til the Silver Cup IMO. A load or rain and a bit if wind and there is no telling which side will be the best.

My point was that I've read loads of people say "you need a 7f horse to win this and so ....... is the winner". But if you go through the card half of the field could be classed as genuine 7f performers and so selecting one horese on that basis alone doesn't really stand up, you need more reasoning than that alone.

Yes I agree. You want a 7f horse that handles soft/heavy ground.

Regal Parade it is then.

Wish I'd backed Eton the other day and not Hawyeye now. Might get lucky but everything I've ever seen about the horse suggest no chance on soft.

I wonder what is going on with Light From Mars. I left a few small bets up last night at 90/100 and only got pieces matched this morning. Steady money on the right hand side since about 10AM.

Moved trainer from Nichols to Quinn at the beginning of August. Breeding suggests it should be running in 10 - 12F races but wins have been from front running, up with the pace. With no obvious pace drawn low, I think he asked Dandy to train it to front run and then switch to Quinn to get rid of the Dandy connection with the race.

Conclusion is that I think this will try to make all and will go clear 3 furlongs out, the question is, in the ground will anything be able to catch it? A bit like Hinton Admiral.

Anyway at 66/1 or so and hard to back on BF, looks worth a small stakes investment.

gl

.Fidway.     Joined: 12 Jun 10

Replies: 2309 14 Aug 11 14:58 
our jonathon for me if its entered


Very well done Fidway.

Evens and Odds ran a stormer for you today DH. 
Best of luck with Nasri on Monday at Hamilton.  Could end up being a 4 runner race.

WP FID and all winners

cheers.have thought he was the winner of the race for months and end up only putting on a tenner . must admit i ended up with macs power as my main bet

Not Eddie Aherns greatest moment. Whats the point in getting the stall you wanted and then switching high to see your side winning the race. Not that it would have made much difference but at least the Koucash runners set the pace on that side.
KK plainly didnt handle the ground, Pastoral Player got going all too late again (he'll go close in next years Stewards Cup if the grounds fast as he needs a flat out gallop on quick ground and he covered half of Sussex Downs in this years race), Son Of The Cat likewise and I thought Hawkeyethenoo was the eyecatcher with Ascot in mind in a couple of weeks time. Great race to watch though, particularly as I didnt have a bet in the end!

.Fidway. !! Never change your mind - have the strength of your initial convictions

I commiserate with FIDWAY, I did exactly the same with MASKED MARVEL in the LEGER, but we are human beings and as such WILL NEVER achieve perfection.
I remember thinking I had backed a stumour in the AYR GOLD CUP  a few years ago when FUNFAIR WANE ran last in stewards cup, but my money was already on, history tells us that he won and my worries were unfounded.

bazaar i backed funfair wane to both his ayr gold cup wins. remember just about everyone at my work had £10 or £20 on . was a popular chap on the monday. 2 years later i didnt fancy him that much but stuck on a cheeky £5 on at 33s.felt as though i had lost because i never had a decent bet on him.

Must admit I never fancied him first time, but when he beat the excellent trial tackle, THE TATLING by 3/4 length giving him 13lbs,
then I COULD NOT let him run unbacked, especially in the AYR GOLD CUP.
Not a big backer but love to puzzle out what trainers might be doing, since you mentioned your workmates, do you find that most are lazy as regards form study and look to others for help, because I have met up with this down the years?

^ applies to the vast majority of punters.Hence all the tipsters eg Pricewise. No one can/wants to be bothered studying and keeping records.For me its half the joy - especially when proved correct !

A good example was old Captain Elsey complaining about the Lincoln would have been better for his horse if the race was a fortnight later
and I decided that he was "putting us away", BABUR 1958, having backed him in 1957, I got on him again.