Nick Mordin........genius or mug.

Somewhere in between, always good to take account of left field angles tbf. My personal favourite was that Debussey would win the Derby or was it Tidal Bay would beat Big Bucks?

I find him useful for grading the merits of what are percieved by the general public as being top performances, his ideas surrounding the Sussex and Frankel would be very much in line with mine.

He's interesting to read. I think over the last few years some of his findings have become increasingly bizarre and seems to get it wrong a lot more often than he gets it right.

His thoughts on Frankel after the Guineas were that he was a sprinter who might win a G1 over 10f.
Nothing like covering the bases.

I agree that in recent years he has come up with increasingly strange perceptions , a lot of which have
proven to be in correct.  When he orginally came on the seen he was very orginal but it  looks to me
like he is finding it increasingly difficult to get an edge and his judgement isn't as good as it was.

He called the Group 1 potential of Canford Cliffs straight after the Greenham in fairness. I'd use his theories here and there to construct an argument for making a bet when I fancy something, for example he rated Pandorama v highly as a novice hudler when he got soft ground, this persuaded me to back him in the Lexus, despite the debacles at Downroyal and the Hennessey, the old adage of a bad horse can't do a good time and that, he would be the only thing on sectional times I read, i get the Irish field for free out in college.

Wasn't the G1 potential of Canford Cliffs obvious ?
Surely no one needed Nick to tell them Pandorama was a very good horse on soft ground.

Back to the original point.
Surely he should know the Champion Stakes is not being run over a course with a 5 furlong+ run in ?

Sorry neill d that comes over as a bit abrupt.

hard to believe he did not know that

must just watch horse races all day long, mute the pundits, and never read the RP or racing pages of the other papers.

Arrogant, never afraid to take a position and always afraid to say "I got it wrong".

His dogmatic opinions always seem to imply that anyone taking an alternative view is stupid and that is very irritating.

Sometimes very full of insight though and at least always an interesting read.

Genius - no. Mug - certainly not.

Up his own arrse - undoubtedly.

He makes so many HERO calls thats its impossible for people not to take 1 side or the other.

Either he will look like a complete genius or a right plum.

Its like in poker when you flopped a pair of kings and you manage get the other guy to go all in with just A5 and he hits the ace from space on the river. same sh*t.

I'm a big fan of Mordin, really enjoy reading his views... But as cry says he very very rarely admits he has been wrong which is annoying as fck!

He is neither,he does research, then reports his findings.Why is it that people can't differentiate between opinion based on opinion, and opinion based on fact!!

trouble is that Mordin, at his most arrogant and annoying, presents his opinons as if they are actually facts. If he would actually stick to systems and an analysis of past trends - fine - he doesn't do this though.

The thing about Mordin is he has always encouraged punters to do their own homework to find angles etc. He might have forthright opinions but I think he'd be the first to say that anyone blindly agreeing with him is a mug. When I was a newbie to racing he was the only British racing writer out there worth reading and things haven't improved much. When I think of all the tediously cliched dross I read and hear in the racing media I'm surprised he receives so much stick, but really I shouldn't be.

I'll echo all of that Figgis

His book 'Betting For A Living' was mildly interesting - nothing more.

No prob Flyingbolt, I should have been more specific and said group 1 winning potential, after the Greenham, a lot of people were saying the Canford Cliffs bubble was burst and that he'd go sprinting as he didn't get a mile, Mordin gave him a huge speed rating on the sectionals he set, a 42 if I recall which is as high as he goes. hughsie holds him up and its bobs your uncle.

Similar story with Pandorama, I think he gave him the biggest speed rating he ever gave a novice hurdler, his oppinion just reminded me to keep them on side, it is one thing saying they were good horses, but I think he spotted that they had huge latent ability.

and what top race has pandorama won with his unforseen mordin apart latent ability

Well he won the Lexus pretty easy and I got 10/1 about him, after the Hennessey and the way both his novice Hurdle and novice chase campaign tapered off, a lot of people said he wouldn't be capable of this hence the 10/1. Befor you say it, I know he beat trees, but I think you get the gist of the point I was trying to make.

he has made a number of bold correct calls this year: when other "pundits" where talking about Frankel as a derby prospect, he was making the (at the time) outrageous claim that Frankel could win a July cup; he also thoughtfully argued that Dancing Rain was underestimated by the racing press. In a world where the mainstream racing press posit the favourite as the most "likely winner" and the second favourite as a "danger," this is impressive and refreshing stuff.

I've noticed he no longer runs his tipping line which suggests it hasn't been going well on the tipping
front. He may not be aware of the Champion stakes being run at ascot because I think he still lives
in America.

Tinkler,he may live in the US but.................

He writes for an English paper. Presumably as he writes primarily about UK and Irish racing he might have noticed one of the 3800 articles that have been written about the Champion Stakes moving to Ascot.

can give or take him really

however as others have said at least he offers something to the table from the usual bile bland tripe

He still maintained that Tidal Bay is a better staying hurdler than Big Buck's despite TB having his a rse handed to him twice by BB

Have never taken him seriously since

Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

His opinions are always interesting, at least.

I think people treat him like a tipster when by far his greatest contribution to the game is for creating analysis that differs from the norm.

And it's all sat there on his website.  Warts and all.  He's not hiding his opinions, and you don;t have to believe in them, but what i've got out of interpreting his work is more than i've got out of the entire British racing press combined.

I think he still lives
in America.

Does he not bet on any of this then?

Agree with Figgis and Jair on this one - the British racing press is largely inadequate when it comes to new ideas and at least Mordin prompts alternative thinking.  I think we find this quirky because we've been fed a diet of mediocrity for years.  As regards his retractions and admissions of error, how many other pundits/tipsters/presenters offern apologies when they get things wrong.  I'd say less people are interested in Mordin than follow the advice of the BBC team who'd have put Joe Public on Carlton House in the Derby to name but one of the many bum steers, or C4's hundreds of different tips per race.  At the end of the day, he's just putting his ideas out there and leaving it up to people  to make up their own minds/develop their own thinking.

And I don't think everything is that quirky really.  His France archive on the website highlighted Moonlight Cloud as a future top sprint race winner because of her 'leg speed'; pretty useful to have in a horse race over a short distance

FB,
If you were sitting in a pub with Mordin discusssing Midday's ideal conditions and he made his Champion Stakes point would you politely remind him the race had been moved to Ascot or leap out of your chair, jab your finger in his face and call him a mug?

I rather suspect (and hope) it is the first option.

I tend not to leap out of chairs and pointing is rude, Headmaster.

In such a circumstance I would still be just as dumbfounded as I am now that it has slipped his memory or he doesn't know that the race has been moved.After all it has been one of the talking points of the season.

In a way it tells me that he hardly even reads the racing press, he just watches the races and makes up his mind from that without taking in too much of the hype, maybe it is why his comments sometimes seem so mush out of left field.

He stated in one of his books that he doesn't like betting. I suspect he doesn't bet that often, yet is tipping
horses for others to put their hard earned on whilst living in a foreign country!!!

I'm under the impression that you have free will as to whether or not you place a bet based on someone else's opinion...

What would have been the point of paying to listen to his tipping line then not backing them?
He tips them doesn't back them ,then people pay him to talk to them about horses they probably won't back.
To ask for payment to receive information about horses that he's not going to back, doesn't seem right to me.

Why would anyone ever ring a tipping line?

And what has this got to do with the relative merits of the man as a 'genius' or 'mug'?

Maybe you are closer to the realm of 'genius' if you start up a tipping line, and closer to the realm of 'mug' if you ring it.

Anyway, he's closed it now hasn't he?

Have to say I like Mordin, he takes a different angle to looking at racing than most others. He'll often get it wrong but it's still interesting to read and think about.

I'd hazzard a guess he hasn't made a lot from betting but has made a hell of a lot from being a journalist
and running a tipping line. If he was a genius he'd have made fortune from betting.Being unable to do
this he has looked to the mugs to provide for his lifestyle like many others have.

tinkler Joined: 02 Sep 10
Replies: 763 11 Aug 11 13:42   
he has looked to the mugs to provide for his lifestyle like many others have.

Which includes any successful punter.

I wouldn't consider anyone who bets and loses a "mug". Many treat it as a hobby and are willing to pay a
certain price for it.
I would consider someone who pays some else for tips(with  1  or 2 exceptions)to be a "mug" and its
these that Mordin has funded his lifestyle from ,just like Thommo and many others have.

tinkler
11 Aug 11 16:32   
I wouldn't consider anyone who bets and loses a "mug". Many treat it as a hobby and are willing to pay a
certain price for it

Certainly, but many others are mugs.

Farkingg Muggsss!! [:D]

William Haggas.....mug?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/aug/08/horse-racing-tipping-compet...

I'll try that again

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/aug/08/horse-racing-tipping-competition

Amazing. Im a big fan of Haggas. One of my fav trainers.

I think hes great. Offers different viewpoint and encourages thought on betting rather than the usual guessers offered up by RP

Certainly gives different viewpoints which are generally worth considering. I always have a read of what he's got to say.