so you think!!!!

Maybe, but Prince of Wales beckons first i would think.

No chance of going for Eclipse.

Wouldn't have him on my mind for the Eclipse. Can't see him having the toe to cope with top Group 1 horses such as Workforce.

Are you having a larf, Rondetto ?

what utter rubbish concerning not having the toe ! the plan is prince of wales, king george and then the possible of even the sussex stakes although id say juddmonte before an arc prep.

he has the pace for a mile and stamina for 1m 4f but 1 1/4 m would be the perfect trip ie the cox plate trip

Don't think he'll go for the King George myself, that race is being left to St. Nicholas Abbey, and maybe even Await The Dawn to fight it out with him.

Still wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of dropping back to a mile, although his run at the weekend suggested he needed stepping up, if anything.

Cape Blanco will be Ballydoyle's Eclipse horse, maybe alongside Jan Vermeer.

On the subject of So You Think not having Workforce's speed over 10f, how many Group Ones does Workforce have at that distance or shorter? So You Think has six, along with a Group Two and a brace of Group Threes.

Interesting Bart Cummings quotes in the RP today. Clearly So You Think is a one in a million horse but Cummings didn't show much grace in his comments. All I'll say to him over the loss of his superstar is Such is Life - the gracious thing would be to wish O'Brien the best of luck with the horse and move on. Still, no love lost between the Irish and the Australians - Mr. Bolger and Mr. O'Brien are not very well liked down there.

People getting seriously carried away with this horse considering what he has or hasnt yet done. Don't believe all that rubbish coming from Ballydoyle - it's all to meant to boost the stud fees.

This horse has shown considerable promise in his first two runs granted, but there is a world of difference between the race he ran in this weekend and the tests that lie ahead.

How many middle distance horses can we name that would or already have beaten Camponologist by 4 lengths plus?

Rondetto, time to stop talking and put your money where your mouth is......Which races will you be laying SYT?

John Magnier said Aidan had the horse barely wound up for Sunday's outing. That makes sense. - He wouldn't have the horse conditioned to run to his peak this early in the season.

Anyone who seen either of his Cox Plates will know just how good this horse can be and with the master looking after him, we can probably expect better again.

The horse is a machine - he will win anything he runs in between now and the Irish Champion and depending how he's campaigned, has a good chance of going through the season undefeated.

Its probably worth bearing in mind virtually anything Ballydoyle says is related to how it will effect the
horses stud value. Their not in it for the sport , the money only.
I rarely listen to AOB anymore because of this bias.
From what I've seen on the track SYT looks exceptional. He's a big galloping type with a slightly round action
who will be best with pacemakers. Of course AOB can set this up(the pacemakers). 1 1/2m Ascot fine, 1 1/4m
Sandown OK with uphill straight though tight bend not ideal, 1m goodwood too sharp. I'd be unsure about
him running on Fast ground at York in the Juddmonte. The Arc with a bit of cut would be ideal.
Looking forward to seeing him run wherever he goes this year.

Couple of punters on this thread need to seriously re-evaluate this horse.

Has a turn of foot that will put any horse in Europe to shame.

It would win the Golden Jubilee by lengths if it ran.

Dont worry about what it will & wont run in. Just back it in what it does.

& Collect.

I would go further than that Alf and suggest that some people indeed are no hallucinogenic drugs.

I would go further than that Alf and suggest that some people indeed are on hallucinogenic drugs................such as myself apparently.

Obrien has plenty of quality older horses this season, and let's face it, coolmore want them all to become stallions, so I wouldn't be surprised if they ignored the king george and the eclipse with this fella.
P.O.W. .... break...   champion stakes.... arc.

I would agree with your analysis, he could easily peak far too soon for any Arc challenge if he enters any more than two group 1's before the Arc IMHO.

Ok - could be that he is a machine and AOB is being genuine for once. Has certainly done nothing wrong so far but I don't trust Australian form and he is yet to prove himself over here as he has only REALLY won two Group 3's albeit impressively. Workforce has a Derby and Arc under his belt and I would go more on that than a Caulfield Cup or two.

POW will tell us more but will not be bowing down at his feet before then.

If you are judging SYT on his Caulfield Cups then no wonder you struggle to understand his form........He never raced in "a Caulfield Cup or two" for that matter.

Yes - shows how much I care about racing down under I suppose

Have to say though that his win in the Didgeridoo Stakes was more impressive than when he scraped home in The Rolf Harris Cup

You do of course realise that SYT was born and bred in New Zealand.

He won the "Sheep Shearers Stakes" there once BTW.[;)]

So You Think from Australia, The Irish horse from New Zealand that won two Caulfield Cups, probably a joke in there somewhere.[;)]

Here is the likely plan for SYT at this time, that may well include a "freshen up" between races.

BTW I dont recommend you read this jonibake as it contains some home truths you may not like.[;)]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/aidan-obrien-thinking-about-big-english-mile-for-so-you-think/story-fn67siys-1226065140104

How successful  So You Think is this season is all down to agendas.

Right now he's fav for the King George over Workforce but in the Arc Workforce changes places with him in the betting.

It's got bog all to do with which is the better horse it has everything to do with which horses the bookies think will turn up.

It would seem SYT goes for the King Edward but may bypass the Eclipse despite the latter being the more prestigious race.

Plenty hype coming out of Aiden's gob and a few easy pickings and a champion is born.

Comparing this horse to Workforce is bordering on stupidity.

A cox plate winner V a horse who won the Epsom Derby by a massive 7 lengths and followed up with an excellent win in the Arc. A win that was backed up as A1 by the fact he has beaten that old yardstick Fame and Glory 1 length further the Sea the Stars.

So You Think lands on these shores wins a couple of poor group race albeit impressively and all of a sudden he's a King George/Eclipse/Arc horse.

He better hope Henry or Richard Hannon don't step Frankel or Canford Cliffs up in trip and if he does go for the King George or the Arc he wouldn't blow wind up Worksforce's backside. Then of course there's this years Derby winner to consider. Carlton House may well turn out to be even better than Workforce and be sent for the King George, him or some other horse. Then you have Midday and Twice Over  to contend with who he may find knocking on his door.

So You Think who so far has looked like schoolyard bully and nothing more, will have to show me a lot more before he convinces me he's up to Group 1 class and worth backing for any big race Ante-post.

Bravo Rondo!

Reminds me of this..........http://trololololololololololo.com/

Looks like poor Rondetto's gonna lose some money backing against SYT this year.

Will be unbeaten.

Was listening to Aiden yesterday he's totally gone on this horse and praing him like he could walk on water. Seem to remember him saying the same thing about St Nicholas Abbey though.

To be fair you could hear the excitement in the man's voice but there is a massive difference between what he has achieved and what's ahead of him.

You reckon h will be unbeaten Alf. Well considering you have no idea what will win the Derby what the French or the Americans will come up with I'd say your a bit of a dreamer laddie.

It's along season and a big racing world and apart from Frankel I wouldn't be sticking out my neck to say anything will remain unbeaten let alone a horse who has yet to run in a proper Grade 1 race

Rondetto, you are making yourself look foolish - the horse has won six Group Ones. The Cox Plate is a proper Group One race, it is the Southern Hemisphere's answer to the Arc. As you say yourself, it's a big racing world but you're knowledge of racing Down Under is quite limited to say the least.

By the way the horse runs in the Prince of Wales' next, not the King Edward. That race is for 3yos.

Also the purpose of ante-post betting is to punt runners for future races whilst they are big prices. You want to see more before backing him for a big race, well I promise you when he bolts up in the Prince of Wales', his Arc price will tumble again. That is why people are on NOW saying to back him for the races like the Arc.

As for the unbeaten comment, I think he'll remain unbeaten until the Irish Champion and after that, it's a question of how well he handles his races. The colt is looking at a long campaign - Tattersalls Gold Cup / POW / Sussex or International / Irish Champion and then onto the Arc or the Classic, where he will be meeting horses peaking specifically for those races.

Anyway Rondetto, you clearly have no appreciation for this brilliant thoroughbred - you are so blinded by your own wind-ups that you can't even acknowledge what he has achieved already. Regardless of what he does from now, and if by some fluke your predictions turn out to be right, your lack of knowledge of the Australian racing scene and for this genuine beast of an animal have been well and truly shown up.

Proper Grade 1 Race.

The horse has won 2 Cox Plates lol.

The most ineexperienced horse to do it in 100 years no less.

Unbeaten.

I will not inflame the situation further, i believe Viva's reply covers everything in regards to the facts.

He will be facing a different calibre of horse to Campo if Planteur and Rewilding show up for the POW thats for sure

anyone know if SYT will run in the eclipse next?

POW I think Galileo.

Seems to be two camps here. Camp A think he is a world beater and has already done enough to prove that by winning all those Group 1's in Oz and those two tin pot races in Ireland. Camp B think he could be very good but still has plenty to prove over here and might be found out when he meets British horses of proper quality.

I am in Camp B obviously but will be mighty intriguing to see what happens.........

Camp A are betting odds on though...

Camp B only have to get lucky once, as terrorists say.......

Not he same depth at 10f in Aus but the Cox Plate is a race of proper depth with a rich history.

I was lucky enough to be there for both his wins and they were genuine spine tinglers. Superstar horse both in looks and ability.

Go to Youtube and check out his 2010 Cox Plate, he literally lit up Moonee Valley down the side breaking 11 seconds from the 600-400.... Freak.

Pretty harsh to bag him based on what he has beaten in Ireland, its hardly his fault that the racing there is so weak...

Racing in ireland is so weak my arse big o.The race was weak because workforce camp bottled it plain and simple.If workforce turned up would have been a great race.

"Camp A are betting odds on though...

Camp B only have to get lucky once, as terrorists say......."

Points of note,

Some of us more shrewd members of camp A took juicy ante post odds and greened up which negate any camp B scenarios should that occur.

Also note that no one in camp B has yet to come forward with any claims that they have taken the juicy lay odds currently available.

I didnt realise i was talking with traders

Don't doubt there is class at the top end Alleged but from where I sit most of the top races in Ireland appear little more than glorified Ballydoyle track gallops...

There are some terrific trainers in Ireland but a Group One is allowed to go around with just a handful of runners?? It's crazy.

Looking at the Coronation this weekend it appears much the same in England.

Class at the top, sure, but where are the promising types having a throw at the stumps???  There should be 4-5 Dandino types heading into a major G1 like that...

It makes for poor betting races which in turn hurts prizemoney and leads to more poor betting races. Leaving racing in the UK, well, fkd...

Camp A would appear to be skint........

Thought he lost nothing in defeat and has risen in my estimation but still one or two on here now need to eat plenty of humble pie.

So what is SYT targetting next? Anybody know.

OBrien post race... listen he was blowing a bit hard....wasnt fit enough...listen soo much pace. unbelievable like. he's got the pace for the July Cup listen we'll go back and speak to the lads and decide but all them races will be open to him.

--------

would think all roads lead to the Irish Champion.

Mid season break - Irish Champion - BC Classic.

What do you think ELG?

That's what I was saying over on the Aidan O'Brien thread.

would think so.

Irish Champion looks about right. Race could cut up just like the Tattersals....good g1 to have on his CV.

but if he messed up the training today then he really needs to get it right come the autumn. those races like the arc and classic are no joke. cant be showing up there half fit.

Camp B were on Rewilding quite big at the price ay Force....

its got to be the eclipse!!!, now, and a challenge against workforce!!!, should be a another great race!!!, roll on the 2nd of july!!!!.

Well the KG and other 1m4f races look to be out after todays performance so the Eclipse / Juddmonte / Irish Champion look the obvious races, though I reckon the QEII will also be on their minds. It's certainly not impossible as Falbrav should have won all 4, and he also ran in the King George as well.

Do people think this 'half fit' (for a mid season Group 1!) thing is genuine

I suspect it was just more palatable than admitting he was not the invincible wonderhorse they had made him out to be.

As it is they are maintaining he is indeed a phenomenon, but was not quite able to show it today as the egg&spoon races in Ireland had not tuned him up properly.

If he really was short of fitness today then he will logically run in The Eclipse , as todays run should have 'put him right' [;)]

If he is not sighted for months then it will prove it was just another excuse aimed at gullible people, as you give a horse a break after it has peaked not before it gets there.

Well I called him an overrated boat and got slagged for it but by Jupiter he did a very good impression of one in the last furlong.

Give him his due he ran well but anyone who thinks he is any sort of threat to the last 2 Derby winners needs a lobotomy.

He he, overrated boat, he has the same rating as workforce which you rate so well so your comments never made any sense to begin with.

If its just a blip on his record we will know next race, after all workforce has had some shockers in a couple of his races aswell, lets keep to the facts here.

I rate workforce in as high regard as SYT, hes a great horse as is Frankel who had a near wobble the other day.

If O'Brien backs down now on bigger challenges going for easy prey its all over folks, if he actually has any balls he will aim higher, afterall he wasnt fully fit according to O'Brien! Cant have it both ways, either hes not yet fully fit and is now up for the big race/s or O'brien is looking to pike out and claim some more 3 rd rate group 1's and then retiring him with a much reducesd stud fee I might add after yesterdays debacle.

Time to man up O'Brien.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing/aidan-obriens-crazy-for-so-you-think/story-fn67r1j3-1226073892021

"But we haven't stepped up his work because we feel he is doing it comfortably and doing it within himself. We are very happy with how he is going at the moment.

"As I said, we haven't done that much with him in training because we feel he is such a natural horse.

"We are just hoping we have done enough with him for Royal Ascot. I'm confident we have."

I recall reading this a few days ago and for a fleeting moment I thought it might be a problem, but then I thought nah. Not even sure it's worth noting this - although it does show that he had, albeit very small, misgivings about the light prep.

Well the KG and other 1m4f races look to be out after todays performance


why? Are you implying that SYT wont/doesnt stay a mile n a half?

"over rated boat" mmmmmm

Seems to me he is a boat capable of running over 130. My best guess is that he is a 133 horse and thus about 10 lbs better on form than this year's Derby winner.

Im guessing O,Brien will retreat back to his cave and offer us nothing as to SYT plans going forward.

If he had any sense he would publish his grand plan/s and stick to it rather than trying to micro manage and change plans race to race with daily media releases of BS about how good he is.

At this point i have lost confidence in O'Brien and until he proves otherwise i will be taking anything he says as rumour rather than fact.

Right now I am not willing to take $ a position on SYT in any race hes nominated for.

got a feeling they'll chuck him in the eclipse now.

Does anybody really believe O'Brien's excuse that the horse wasn't fully fit? I rated it a solid Group 1 time, faster than any running of the race in the last few years. I'm no expert on Australian form but I'd be very surprised if he could run much better than he ran on Wednesday.

Agree with that Figgis, fitness can't be the excuse. 

I'd say he has run up to his form down here, he never met anything as good as Rewilding.

A couple of small tactical things go right and he holds out a very good horse in very good time, nobody would be questioning fitness etc then...

They really set the race up for Rewilding and took away SYTs best weapon (acceleration) by setting him for home 600m+ out.

If they ride him a bit more conservatively and let him loom up and sprint for 2 furlongs I think he is capable of finding more and would happily back him to beat Workforce.

Yes I agree that given the small margin of victory, if the tactics on both horses had been reversed then so might have the result. I reckon he just came up against a horse who was primed to give a peak performance and I wouldn't bank on Rewilding running quite as well as that any time soon.

If Rewliding were mine id go International at York followed by the Arc or Breeders Cup turf

Sadly i think they will go KG

im well on !!! SO YOU THINK!!, lets see a great race!!!

thats the difference!!!!.

Im not liking the "hanging" going on with SYT in the last two races, i hope thats not something O'Brien taught him!

Either way he got the job done and claimed back some credability.

Won nicely from a horse who was running on the wrong ground over the wrong trip

No excuses for the runner up, the ground was quicker when he thrashed the Derby field and he didn't look like the trip was any inconvenience to him whatsoever today, well done SYT backers.

& the Aussie champ beats the Arc & Derby winner.

Disappointing when thats the best Europe can throw up.

Next...

Great race, the winner is 3/4 of a pound better than Workforce over 10 furlongs on fastish ground. That is a really very high level of form, maybe 133. only 7 lbs below Sea You Then.

TFR suggesting he goes

Juddmonte
Irish Champion
Cox Plate

Anyone seen this confirmed elsewhere?

O'Brien quoted those three races in his post race interview S&C.

Where is Rondetto? What's all this about not having the toe for a genuine Group 1 horse such as Workforce.

You have been badly exposed Rondetto.

"Where is Rondetto? What's all this about not having the toe for a genuine Group 1 horse such as Workforce.

You have been badly exposed Rondetto."

Probably somewhere drowning his sorrows tearing up his betting slip!

Not sure if the cox plate would be considered as hes been paid up and nominated for the Breeders Cup in the US.

Hope he goes to York as I'm going on the Wednesday. Be good if they decided to run Frankel, but think it may be too close to Goodwood now they've decided to go there

Hope he goes to York as I'm going on the Wednesday. Be good if they decided to run Frankel, but think it may be too close to Goodwood now they've decided to go there

Not sure i get the cox plate angle
Coolmore clearly bought SYT with a view to standing in both hemispheres
how much extra value does winning a third cox plate bring from a stud perspective rather than a crack at the arc or breeders cup
not knocking the cox plate btw

Im not sure, IMO winning a Breeders Cup and/or an Arc would (after winning two coxplates already) be far superior to have on your stud resume i would think, im not going to pretend the cox plate will throw up the quality of opposition of the other two races.

But if O'Brien is set in his ways about his distances i guess another crack at a cox plate makes sense. The only piece of advice id offer on a third cox plate is that the favourite often gets rolled in this race and throws up a big surprise win.

If they are going to retire him after this year i dont see why you wouldnt try a BC or Arc and go out with a bang.

Ive noticed the cox plate price has drifted from 4.5 to 17.5
and the arc price is hovering around 10

do you get the feeling someone in AOB's yard will make a few drinks out of this

perils of ante post betting i suppose

HeraldSun.au article.

SHOULD So You Think continue his groundbreaking northern hemisphere campaign or return for a possible third Cox Plate?

This is the dilemma facing Irish trainer Aidan O'Brien - but So You Think's owner, Malaysian businessman Dato Tan Chin Nam, is confident the trainer will make the right decision.

In an exclusive interview with The Daily Telegraph yesterday, Dato Tan said So You Think's race program for the rest of the year, which is the subject of much conjecture, would be determined by O'Brien.

"I learnt a long time ago to listen to great trainers - that is why you give them your horses," he explained. "I listen to Bart (Cummings) and we have been very successful. We have had So You Think, Viewed, Saintly, Faint Perfume, God's Own, Wonderful World, Catalan Opening, Danendri, Danarani and of course Think Big and so many others.

"So You Think is now with Aidan O'Brien who is also a great trainer and I listen to his advice."

Dato Tan, who has won three Cox Plates with Saintly (1996) and So You Think (2009-2010), admitted that Australia's weight-for-age championship was a race he covets but whether his champion returns for a shot at equalling Kingston Town's hat-trick of wins was up to O'Brien.

There is speculation O'Brien will now set So You Think for races like the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe and even the US Breeders Cup, thus ruling out another Cox Plate campaign.

"The Cox Plate is a race I love, it is one of the world's great races but I want to see what is best for So You Think," Dato Tan added.

"If Aidan O'Brien says that it is the Cox Plate then I would love to see him come home and defend his title. If Aidan says there is more to conquer then I say 'conquer'.

"Like any parent you want to do what is best for your children, I want whatever is best for So You Think.

"Time will tell what that is. Only Kingston Town has won three Cox Plates and no horse from Australia or New Zealand has won the Arc or a Breeders Cup race. History stands before him. I think So You Think will man up and show what he can do wherever he goes."

So You Think's groundbreaking Eclipse Stakes win now has the champion vying for the title of world's best middle-distance horse,

England's authoritative Racing Post newspaper lauded So You Think's effort to run down Workforce over 10 furlongs (2000m), a distance which Europe's best traditionally dominate and has "proved an impregnable fortress to outsiders - until now".

"In recent years, Japan has come closest to bagging a top-level middle-distance win on European soil, with horses like Deep Impact, Nakayama Festa, Heart's Cry and El Condor Pasa all going close in the big events," Racing Post wrote.

"Australia, so adept with sprinters, has not had many cracks at the 'Euros' over trips in excess of a mile.

"In 2005 Elvstroem managed to finish third in the Prince Of Wales's and the mighty Starcraft was sixth in the Eclipse before winning two Group 1s at a mile, but until So You Think there was nothing to worry the best of Europe over longer trips.

"In Australia, So You Think won with his head in his chest more often than not and in 2010 he won five of his six starts, his sole defeat coming under a big weight in the Melbourne Cup.

"The horses he faced were not as smart as Workforce, but they were good enough to suggest he had a shot at supplying the southern hemisphere with that elusive breakthrough in Europe.

"On Saturday those expectations were put to the test against last season's world champion turf three-year-old and, after coming out on top, So You Think now takes his rightful place as leader of the global middle-distance standings."

Dato Tan said So You Think's Eclipse Stakes win rated highly among his many successes on the racetrack. "(It was) one of the great wins because his success helps Australia and New Zealand so much," Dato Tan said.

"So You Think is our champion, the champion of Australia and New Zealand and people from all over the world know he represents our industries."Dato Tan last year sold a controlling share in So You Think to Coolmore Stud in a deal which valued the entire about $60 million but says there is "no need for vindication" despite the horse's European success.

"Maybe I was upbeat, I expected So You Think to do well and he has done well," Dato Tan said.



"So You Think won two Cox Plates and he deserved his chance to see if his greatness could grow and it has."

But Dato Tan stopped short of ranking So You Think as the best racehorse he has owned.

"Right now I am on top of the world so I may not be fair to Saintly," he said. "Perhaps it is best if I answer that question once So You Think's career is over and I have come back down to earth."

Go to the Arc, please.

Surely he should stay over here and go for the Arc if they are serious about him proving himself as one of the greats.Winning another Cox Plate will prove nothing that hasn't already been proved.

Rondetto seems to have gone quiet.

Rondetto........who is wrongdetto?[;)]

Speaking of his next race/s, is it even possible that he could race in the Arc then the BC given they are just over 1 month apart?

Im assuming you have to make a decision about backing him in only one, anyone think otherwise?

Plenty of horses run on Arc weekend and the Breeders Cup
especially now the BC is on the first Saturday of November.

Goldikova last year was one. No problem at all running in both.
Some trainers - Andre Fabre is one - feel it is too tough
for 3 yo's to run in both but for the most part plenty of horses
run at both meetings.

Thanks for the info.

Pleasure

Somebdy was trying to lay SYT at 34.0 for the BCC today.
Surely the BCC has to be the target. A decent run on
dirt would greatly increase the value of both SYT & his
sire High Chaparral. All this talk re the Cox Plate &
quarantine issues seems like a smokescreen.

This appears to be the weakest year for US dirt horses
in living memory especially now that Animal Kingdom is
injured. European trainers will never get a better chance
to win one of the world's premier races on the Churchill Downs
dirt. They have won the race twice at Santa Anita - one of dirt,
the other on synthetic - but winning at CD would be the ultimate
victory for increasing the value of their horses as stallions.

Im not confident seeing him blow right out in betting, somebody knows something, hes not going to the BC surely, why else would he be $34?

Makes no sense unless some American has NFI whats going on, which lets face it many of them dont!