World Domination

This horse probably couldn't dominate an acre of land.

He's some judge that Elvis

Well done Tom Queally for the ultra negative vibes on World Domination. He put every Tom, Dick and Harry off backing it to the extent where it got pushed out to 3/1, whilst being shortened for the Derby at the same time. I then have to listen to Lord Snootey smuggily mock people for not backing him given the buzz for some time now. How dare the betting public not have inside information on one hand, whilst taking the jockeys negative comments on another. Nice display there, and Queally knew full fine well what he had in his hands.

You'd think a professional Newmarket work watcher would have some idea as well, otherwise what would be the point....unless Elvis was putting us away

elves hasnt got a clue.

He won a maiden, so 8/1 looks a bit short when you remember that Shergar was 8/1 after the Guardian Classic Trial when Richard Baerlein famously wrote, "now is the time to bet like men". I suppose that is the price we pay for Betfair.

On negative vibes, Henry Cecil too seemed to be downplaying this one recently. I got the impression Midsummer Sun was better regarded, at least till he ran the other day.

After the classic trial Shergar was far too long a price though!

All the same just looking through the form of the placed horses, World Domination may have run a rating of about 94 maximum.

He beat the 3rd by about a stone and that horse - Reflect - ran 74 in his last race and best performance when placed at Bath last season.

Even allowing for  reflect improving  6lbs, which is guesswork, World Domination has a huge way to go yet. He essentially needs to improve around 2 and a half stones in less that 2 months to win the Derby. 8/1 is a ridiculously short price and half what you would need even for a fun bet at bad value.

Is he not due to run in the Dante? What I know about flat racing you could write on the back of a **** packet but I do know someone who is very clued up. His advice was to leave the horse alone yesterday but back him on his second run as a huge amount of improvement is anticipated.

his derby price is a joke!

Good call on the RPR CoT.

Fwiw, Hala Bek ran to RPR 97 when making winning debut in same race in 2006 prior to his near-miss in the Derby, while Cecil's Sight Unseen was given RPR of 98 when successful fto in 2009 but didnt progress beyond 105 recorded on next start.

I think World Domination will improve a ton for his first run. Is he a Derby winning horse - hard to say. Is he a Group winning horse - i think he could be.

i think you'd struggle to get much odds against him winning a Group race

id lob on at evens for him t win a g1

I think it's a case of just watching and waiting with this horse now as the odds are pathetic for what he has achieved so far.

You could only be happy if you managed to snaffle the 25/1 like Eric Morose did Post-Race.

Yep, I said post-race odds of 25/1. How did Eric manage it. [:o]

I honestly think 25/1 is about his real price. If I could get that now I would maybe have a small saver.

You have to lay it at the current price then, cryoftruth...even if you're not usually a layer, to be able to lay a 25/1 shot at 8s is massive...to not do so would suggest you have no confidence in your judgement.

Yes unfortunately I am in one of those positions where to balance a book a bit (I had a big bet with a bookie on Frankel at 20/1) I have been laying at 6/1 on here. This leaves room for other laying a bit squeezed financially!

He is a lay at 8/1 though I think.

World Domination weak on here now. He seems short considering he has one or more trials to come against way better opposition than his poor quality opponents on his debut. If he did go Dante he will have Carlton House and others to beat or the 7s will look terrible value.

Do you think any Cecil horse generally gets overrated early on? Another examplw of this was Arizona Jewel. Don't get me wrong I want cecil horses to do well but i'm sire there are others who are quite happy to lay his horses in the classics with the exception of frankel?

his string in general has certainly attracted more than its fair share of attention this spring it seems

The fact that he had a top-draw 2yo last year who appears to have trained on should have no bearing on how the rest of the 3 year olds are rated, but sentiment always comes into it.

However the prevarications of Teddy Grimthorpe might lead some to believe there really are other top horses in the stable whereas in reality the chances are that they simply haven't decided what to do with Frankel yet.

over the years some of henry's horses have been hyped to death.

One a bit like World Domination was a filly called Saison. She was favourite for the 1000 Guineas one year until people suddenly came out of theior dreamn just before the Guineas was actually run. she had never run and this amazing ante post gamble started in the spring, and she was soemthing like 5/2 ante post. Then she came out and won a maiden at the newbury soring meeting, and recorded a form foigure of 85 or something and still they backed her - it was amzing.

Now World Domination was a quite impressive winer of a nice maiden race, and would probablty be favourite for a 12 furlong 3yo handicap off the official rating he was allocated - 91 I think it was, or mabe this was the postmark. He is howver damned near favourite for the Derby; and the favourite has, on form, around 37 lbs in hand.

Now I am not syaing that World Domination isn't a very promising horse or that he won't be top class, or win a derby. I am a huge long terms fan of the trainer and was before Wollow trotted up under Frankie's dad at HQ. However his price for the Derby is quite ridiculous. World Domination, even allowing for Henry's high opinion of his promise, should be at least 20/1. People plunging in at 7/1 or shorter are basically mugs.

Eric

the "ppor quality opponents" World Domination met, may in my view, prove to be participants in the best 3yo maiden race this season.

The first 5 or six will all win races and the second is a shoo in for the leger.

cryoftruth you are not being serious when you say the 2nd is a shoo in for the leger

Frankel has put the spotlight on Henry so anything he runs will be  somewhat flattered by the media jumping on the bandwagon. Nice horse but not a Derby winner in my book

Interesting to see that he is to be aimed at Lingfield rather than the Dante as was originally suggested.

Frankel will be Dante bound and if winning must surely be Epsom bouts?

Dante trip too sharp - his maiden was over further.

Frankel will be Dante bound

No chance totally without precedent, even more so if he wins the Guineas.

"Commander In Chief was a very big, robust horse. This is a slightly immature horse. If I'm thinking of the Derby I've got to go for a trial. Obviously we would love to go for the Dante, but I question whether he wouldn't learn a bit more if he went to Lingfield."

Sounds like he is aiming for the Derby with this one.

Only way Frankel lines up in the Dante is if he misses the Guineas for some reason

didn't they already state he would go to the Dante(Frankel)..

Or if he gets beat in the Guineas,imo, AT.

Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to Khalid Abdullah, owner of Frankel and Picture Editor, said: "We have entered Frankel in the totesport Dante, it being the best Derby trial. But how far he might stayhas yet to be determined - Henry has said that the horse will tell us.

"First, Frankel will head to the 2,000 Guineas. We will have to see what he does, how he does it and everything else at Newmarket and go on from there."

Personally, I'd think that Grimthorpe is a distant third behind Khalid Abdulla and Henry Cecil with regards knowledge of this issue.
He ain't gonna run 4 times by the end of the first week in June, is he now?

Personally I just think they are covering all their options. At the end of the day Frankel is their number 1 horse, and World Domination will not run in the same race. If Frankel does end up running in the Derby, think that World Domination 'will need more time, perhaps wait for Ireland'

Frankel is so important to Juddmonte. The owner is incredibly loyal, kept sending Cecil horses in his very bad years and even sent Pat Eddery horses in his 1st year and continues to do so. Thus I believe the horse becoming as good as they think it could be will be their legacy to their no 1 US trainer, and I really think this importaant to Khalid Abdulla. World Domination is potentially one horse that could beat it over a distance, so they will not clash at this stage of their careers.

However as said before, if he wins Guineas running in Dante would be pointless. They will know if Frankel has a good chance of staying and if they want to go Derby route, then go straight there. Ultimately if he is going to be considered a champion, he will need to win all-aged races later in the season and running 4 races so soon will surely compromise that?

Frankel will not stay beyond 1m 2f and will not run in Derby. World Domination is Cecil No1 for this and Trainer will use most appropriate trial for horses experience(Lingfield).

Thank you for putting this matter to rest.

Thank you for putting this matter to rest.

............ other than the bit about WD going to Lingfield 

4/1 with H1lls

World dominations price is a complete joke, bookies taking punters for mugs.

4/1 - amazing price for a maiden winner who has run a rating of 90+. he has 5 weeks left to make improvement of 30lbs.

Henry Cecil appears to be favouring a crack at the Edward VII Stakes at Ascot.

You cannot blame the bookies though. If people are foolish enough to back 20/1 shots at single figure prices...

Like the layers on here. I have been happy to lay steadily this horse at 6/1. Its like getting 3/1 about red on a roulette table. If only we could get such value all the time.

Look at it this way.

He might be about evens to run in the Derby. He is about 10/1 to be a 120+ horse, and that would make him competitive in most Derbies. That makes his real chance of winning over 20/1. So for a sporting saver I really wouldn't mind having a crack at him at 25/1. And yet Hills are offering 4/1.

Henry will be leaving all options open to him but in an ideal world, World Domination would win the Dante and be their representative in the Derby. Frankel could then be kept to 8 and 10 furlongs and the owner would have the best of both worlds.

Can't see Frankel being commited 100% to anything other than NOT running in the July Cup until WD runs again

This is the Derby winner - once he hacks up in the Dante, it will simply be a case of him acting on the idiosyncratic track.
Frankel would have no chance against this horse over 12f.

I've got this horse at 25/1 on here and am swaying towards laying it off for a profit before the Dante which I don't think WD will win. I just don't like the vibes.

Hmmmm

What to do.

think i will SLUMBER on the problem