Captain Chris - King George/Gold Cup

A colleague of mine interviewed Philip Hobbs who said he was dissapointed Captain Chris had won at Kempton as he was hoping to protect his novice status...

Says it all...

Suppose he was gutted when he won the Arkle too then...

ps that is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever read.

He must have Good ground Dan, and if he were to win the KG he'd still be about 10/1 for the GC.

Immediately after LR won it this year he was 7/1, and he had good horses in behind.

tbh, I think your better of just backing him for the KG, because he doesnt have a prayer in the GC imvho.

Agree on the ground, although the last few KG/GC's have all been run on suitable ground. Also I think Long Run was still 7/1 after the race due to his opponents, 3 of which are going to be even older this year. Why do you not think he has a prayer in the GC?

im still not convinced by his jumping tbh and thought the Arkle was run to suit perfectly lto.

Dan, it's true! Hobbs never had that good opinion about the horse! Amazes me too how everyone went on about this year's Arkle being the worst in time...now they're talking about the winner winning King George's and Gold Cup's!? Laughable!

cant believe hobbs would of said that

i think he showed he is a very nice horse when he gets his ground, whether he will get that or be good enough to beat long run around kempton is another thing

15Apr10 Cheltenham   ( 17 Gd ,RPR145 )

Richard put him hanging down to greenness as he got a nudge from another horse at the top of the hill and you have to remember that was only the fourth run of his life. I would say that will be it now until the autumn when he may have one run over hurdles and then go no novice chasing.Obviously the hope is that he can make up into an Arkle horse come next March. - Philip Hobbs, trainer

"There is no doubt he is a horse with an enormous amount of ability"

This is what Hobbs said last summer. Sounds like he's always had a "good opinion" of him to me.

think johnson had a "good opinion" too


23Mar10 Kempton   ( 16 Gd ,RPR136 )

You think you are on a three-mile chaser when you are riding to the start, but he travels very nicely and seems to have all the gears. There's lots to look forward to. - Richard Johnson, jockey

That's clearly nonsense dwm, as he was put into that race at Kempton as a confidence boost and if he hadn't won I think they'd have been devastated. If Hobb's did say that it would have ben tongue in cheek and your pal needs a new sarcasm detector!

I don't think the Arkle will work out that badly, and the fact that CC managed to win it despite it not being his ideal conditions (ground aside) is testament to his ability.

ground is the most important of conditions, tbf.

Perhaps im being a bit harsh on him, and he is still a novice.

Im probably just bitter about him beating Finians who would have won me a packet.

Haha I had a lovely book on Ghizao and Medermit, was all over CC in the Scilly Isles, just didnt think he'd have the pace for the Arkle. Don't be bitter, Ive got over it, just reap the rewards of backing him in future.
Also as much as the ground is a massive factor for him, dont think you can say it is MOST important as trip, course etc all go into it, and I felt there were enough negatives to negate improvement for good ground. I had him in mind for the KG before the arkle, just added the GC into the double for a bit of fun now though.

Christ you lot are late coming round I took the whole Cheltenham forum on with Captain Chris to win the Arkle .... AND WON.

Please take note Mayweather.

Wishfull Thinking looks more of a Gold Cup hope for the stable/owner to me. Should have won at Chelts but was going far to good and shot his bolt early, stronger pace in a better race should seem him in a better light.

Arkle form will not stand up, and Finians Rainbow will be found out at Aintree.

Ergo, neither will the gold cup form stand up at Aintree.

Captain Chris was being pushed along behind FR in the Arkle,and he ended up winning well.This horse obviously has some pace but essentially he is a horse that will be better over further,how far is debatable,but the obvious thing to do is aim him for the King George.He will be tried over 2m4-3m at some time in late Autumn i imagine and then they will have more of an idea of what distance he wants.
Personally i suspect he will get 3m at Kempton ok,and will be seen in the Gold Cup next March.Anyone who is thinking of backing him is taking a chance yes,but imo a chance worth taking.

Not how I see it unfolding myself, not exactly.

eric, you backed one winner amongst ten losers. Not sure why you keep telling everyone about Captain Chris when you in effect but 6 others horse for the Arkle to. Saludos,Noble Pirnce, Flat Out,Ghizao AND MDH.

All of those are poted in black and white so it it most odd your claimg to have won from the race.

Abott, I don't think WT has the class of Captain Chris, and could be in the sort of Poquelin mould where he's not a genuine grade 1 horse.
I agree bud, I think the KG will be perfect for him, and only threw the gold cup in after I was offered 100/1, that does seem far too big to me tbh.

I think what Hobbes said with regard to kepping him a novice was that IF he were not to win a race this year, that he would probbly be the best novice in the country the following year with more experience behind him. He didn't race till he was six afterall. Hobbes has always rated him and always believed he was better than Wishful Thinking.

albion dan fwiw i think 100s is a very fair price for captain chris for the k.g gold cup double  and i will try to get some of that for myself, is that win only or can you have each way ,i backed realt dubh in the arkle but i was very impressed with captain chris whon to me won a race that was at least half a mile too short for him ,i expect him to be in his element over 3m+ .i was very keen on long run for the gold cup and started a thread about him but for me the value so far looks to be captain chris for next year , when you consider that long run is single figuers fgor the k.g gc double then the captain must be worth throwing some more money at those odds as you obviously dont need to put nmuch on to win a lot .my advice would be to go in again as if it does come off you need tp make it count .
dont know how much they will stand before they shorten him ..

albion dan also they were saying this years arkle was a weak affair ...how can anyone know this yet  its media pundits who said this is a weak arkle and people follow the media and assume the same the form could well be booosted at aintree and punchestown and the 100s captain chris  will soon evaporate,imo no arkle is weak the ist 4 places were filled by horses at the front of the betting it could well turn out to be an above average arkle.

Yes don't know how you can say it is a weak renewal of a race like that until they have run outside of novice company. Had to ring up for the 100s and took a while for bloke to understand but got there in the end.

King George here we come!

worse bets at huge prices. Lets hope hendo forgets to enter long run.

would prefer to see stablemate Wishfull Thinking head for the King George myself...would be the only realistic challenger to Long Run with the track an ideal fit for him.

I think Wishful Thinking is going to be another Poquelin. Superb at giving lumps away in handicaps, but not a genuine grade 1 animal. Although his style of running will always get them all at it so who knows.

Good return for the beast today, barring the last obviously. Was running on so powerfully and actually jumped the last in front. Can't wait for him to be stepped up to 3 miles for the King George!

wishful thinking dan

(note the clever use of words)

Haha very good.

8-1 for KG looks good now, don't understand why it's not shorter. Is there doubts about him going for the race? Surely if he's there on the day will be 9-2 max.

KG looks the absolute perfect race for him. Tempted to pile in for it in a single now, but thought the same about the BC Mile for Excelebration and connections decided to swerve that so unsure whether to trust anyone these days...

Did Hobbs not say anything after race about future plans?

I didn't hear anything, but I think they said beforehand they will step him up in trip this year.

Not seen anything to worry the beast today tbh...

I would've thought that Medermit trailing MM & Somersby might've been of some concern to backers of this 'beast', as was Long Run blowing away the cobwebs and beating some decent horses despite jumping poorly. There is a chance that last years Arkle wasn't all that. No way CC goes off under 5/1 in KG.

be stonking bet if he wins kg

On face value Medermit's run not the best sign but today he faced 2 race fit rivals, Somersby off levels and receiving 4 pounds from MM. Captain Chris was going to give him 6 pounds and a beating and wasn't fit. I would obviously be more worried about Long Run. Was a very decent effort today. I thought he was going to get left behind a mile out but he plugged on nicely and I am sure he will come on for it a lot. No, I dare say the presence of LR, Kauto and MM ensures he goes off a nice price.

Medermit was surely as race fit today as MM and Somersby?

If I'd backed Capt Chris (which I haven't) I'd be at least as worried by how close Medermit was to Cornas at Exeter (and CC would only have beaten him a few lengths if he'd stood up).

I haven't seen anything from last year's nvoices yet to suggest they can touch Kauto/Demnan/Long Run etc over 3 m. Medermit and Time for Rupert today were both seriously outclassed. I agree about LR - I think he'll improve a stone on todays performance so still the one to beat.

My point was that Chris wasn't fit last time, whereas Medermit's opponents today were.

On Somersby ew at 20/1 for the KG but will definitely be covering with Capt Chris on the day. 2m clearly on the sharp side for CC even as a novice and you'd like to think 3m round (r'handed) Kempton will be right up his street. If they all turn up fit and well should be one of the best King George's in years.

Hey, Sint, I agree with your fitness angle for Long Run.

Im just a little concerned the Betfair chase may have left its mark.

Sam asked alot of the horse, who responded willingly and has guts, which is good to know for the future!. Many horses have bounced after a race like that. Imperial Commander Springs to mind!

Keeping the thread on Captain Chris. This is all be good news for his chances, but unfortunately he is not my idea of the King George winner.

Its between Long Run and Kauto. Maybe Mastermind if he stays. The proper multiple Grade 1 winners.

Maybe Occams Razor should be applied to the circumstance. So bearing in mind the most recent form is Kauto Star beating Long Run and the new pretenders; and is going back to his beloved Kempton, with optimum conditions. Surely we would be following our hearts and our heads and getting value at the same time when we back him?!

It would be emotional!!

On reflection, it's possible the Gold Cup left its mark on Long Run as well. Guess we'll find out on Boxing Day.

Lacson made an excellent post about this on p.2 of the Gold Cup 2012 thread on the Cheltenham board. I quote,

"Most pundits seem to think that Long Run will improve past Kauto - I'm not so sure." 


"Of the two, I would say that Long Run had the harder race (much more so than in the Paddy Power last year) and I would not be surprised if he flops in the King George.  Kauto has twice experienced hard fought Betfair chases (Imperial Commander and Exotic Dancer) followed 5 weeks later by wins in the Gold Cup, the last one in 2009 when he won by a distance.  Each of IC and Ex D were well beaten when they ran again in the King George against KS (and ditto if you add in the year he fell in the Betfair against taminrbleu and Snoopy Loopy - both of these were thrashed in the subsequent KG). 

The other point to note is that Kauto jumped the last fence only 2 lengths clear of Long Run but by the line had extended the distance to 8 lengths - he wasn't stopping. 

Food for thought?"

kauto is a very special animal, and Nicholls said he was strolling round the winners enclosure after winning the Betfair not looking like he'd had a race.

The negative being he was trained to the button. You could also see in Nicholls eye that he wasnt sure about getting Kauto to the King George in the right condition.

I also factor the jockeyship in. Ruby is simply the best. He will send Kauto off in front and dictate the race, which is his best chance I feel.

It all adds upto a fascinating race!

Kauto is most certainly the value bet

Nearly time for part 1!