GREATWOOD H'CAP HURDLE (Sunday, November 14th 2010 in CHELTENHAM)

pmt (your in we note !)

Afsoun (FR)    N. B. King    8
American Trilogy (IRE)    P. F. Nicholls    6   
Any Given Day (IRE)    D. McCain Jnr    5   
Arcalis    J. Howard Johnson    10   
Ashkazar (FR)    D. E. Pipe    6   
Astracad (FR)    N. A. Twiston-Davies    4   
Black Jack Blues (IRE)    Miss Rebecca Curtis    7   
Bothy    B. Ellison    4   
Chaninbar (FR)    M. F. Harris    7   
Ciceron (IRE)    Miss Venetia Williams    4   
Culcabock (IRE)    Miss Lucinda V. Russell    10   
Far Away So Close (IRE)    Paul Nolan, Ireland    5   
Fiulin    Evan Williams    5   
For Non Stop (IRE)    Nick Williams    5   
Fosters Cross (IRE)    Thomas Mullins, Ireland    8   
French Opera    N. J. Henderson    7   
General Miller    N. J. Henderson    5   
Get Me Out of Here (IRE)    Jonjo O'Neill    6   
Hunterview    D. E. Pipe    4   
Issaquah (IRE)    J. M. Jefferson    8   
Leslingtaylor (IRE)    J. J. Quinnn 8
Levera    A. King    7
Lush Life (IRE)    N. J. Henderson    5   
Majaales (USA)    T. R. George    7   
Manyriverstocross (IRE)    A. King    5   
Maska Pony (IRE)    G. M. Moore    6   
Menorah (IRE)    P. J. Hobbs    5   
Mille Chief (FR)    A. King    4   
Nearby    P. J. Hobbs    6   
Noble Alan (GER)    N. G. Richards    7   
Notus de La Tour (FR)    D. E. Pipe    4   
Olofi (FR)    T. R. George    4   
Orsippus (USA)    Michael Smith    4   
Oscar Whisky (IRE)    N. J. Henderson    5   
Pascha Bere (FR)    N. J. Gifford    7   
Pires    A. J. Martin, Ireland    6   
Praxiteles (IRE)    Miss Rebecca Curtis    6   
Puzzlemaster    H. Morrison    4   
Salden Licht    A. King    6   
Salute Him (IRE)    A. J. Martin, Ireland    7   
Sanctuaire (FR)    P. F. Nicholls    4   
Secret Dancer (IRE)    A. E. Jones    5   
Silverhand (IRE)    N. Meade, Ireland    6   
St Devote (FR)    E. Griffin, Ireland    5   
Sure Josie Sure (FR)    D. E. Pipe    5   
Tarkari (IRE)    Evan Williams    5   
Tito Bustillo (FR)    P. F. Nicholls    5   
Ultimate    B. Ellison    4

Tks Betfair for pricing it up for the bookies !!!

I just took the 12's on Menorah, it's just a shame it wasn't for a a bit more money.

leslingtaylor isn't a certain runner. his preferred engagement is the Elite at wincanton on 6th November but he is on 134 and its only a 20lb weight range there so he will only run at wincanton if the top weight is around 154/6 or less.If he doesn't go to wincanton he will run inm the greatwood and is in great form having gone up 10lbs on the flat last season.

Sanctuaire thrown in. Expect him to dot up and price collapse for Champion Hurdle.

pmt,

I think Australia Day is going for The Elite.

He is off 157 which puts us 3 lbs out of the handicap..hmmm marginal decision.We did win it with Crow Wood from 2 lbs out of the handicap.

Get Me Out of Here (6) ,
Sanctuaire (6) ,
General Miller (7) ,
Mille Chief (7) ,
Menorah (9) ,
Salden Licht (13) ,
Oscar Whisky (17) ,
Manyriverstocross (19) ,
Hunterview (20) ,
Sure Josie Sure (24) ,
Lush Life (25) ,
Pires (25) ,
French Opera (26) ,
Notus de La Tour (26) ,
Tito Bustillo (26) ,
For Non Stop (27) ,
Tarkari (27) ,
Maska Pony (29) ,
Afsoun (33) ,
Ashkazar (33) 
- Others 33 or more

Wonder what chances are of french opera running, runs off much lower mark over hurdles and abs loves cheltenham - 32 on here...

i like for non stop but i think hes a chasing type and would probably be out of the handicap

black jack blues is one I find interesting at the moment. Ran well last year, and peaked at Aintree blazing a trail before getting caught by Sir Harry Ormesher. He was possibly over the top in his final two runs of last season, so they can be excused. But I get the impression that, following last season  he is open to further improvement. Given how he cruised for so long at Aintree over 2m4, I think the shorter trip of the greatwood won't be too much of an issue if he runs to his best. He ran well on his reappearance having been given a typical front running position, and from that performance I'd like to think he'll be better for it next time out. I thought then that he was one to keep on side of, but in a better grade of race I'm unsure how he'd fare.

That said, he may not have a good enough turn of foot and may prefer a flat track as opposed to what Cheltenham offers. He is also entered in the Elite on saturday so it will be interesting if he runs in it.

any thoughts?

The trainer seems to think he's in for a good season, according to her stuff in the Racing and Football Outlook but he's going to run at Wincanton first. His lack of Cheltenham is off putting.

Cheltenham form, I meant.

sanctuaire as long as they go a good gallop will hose up

Thanks booster. I fear that he'll bump into one better than him on Saturday in the form of australia day, looks real class IMO. Maybe Saturday could be a prep for the big day? But his apparent preference for flat tracks is off putting!

Australia Day is good and will love the track and I still see some mileage from 157 but he'll need the ground on top to be seen at his best. A race to wait until Saturday morning to see shape of the race, going, etc. Nearby could be interesting I think.

GMOOH has to be the one. Then watch the price collapse for CH.

sure josie sure anyone?

Manyriverstocross must have a squeak.

Big Time Brooksielad. She has a proper chance, when you go through the form she looks a total standout and the only one of Pipes left in (backed a week or so ago but was worried about getting in or that notus might be his play). The more rain the better, can only see the price going one way.

General Miller 8/1, unseats in Supreme then beats Menorah at Aintree, has a 5lb pull in the weights and trainer said he's a stronger horse this year. Also has run on soft and had a run over 2m4f at Cheltenham in Jan so should see it out in the conditions.

Olofi is another interesting one, he should have won lto at Chepstow but blundered 2 out and finally went down by a nose to Estort'men. He seems to have tailed off at the end of last season but he'd had a long season starting back in August. He runs off 10-3 and is defo in, and is a tasty e/w price of 33/1.

Menorah 7/1 lads, all in.

I like SJS as well. See she beat Nearby end last season. Also in 5 days decs at Fontwell. Sure...ly got to run at Cheltenham?

Menorah lost to General Miller at Aintree, and never beat him at Chelts due to his unseating. Yet Miller has a 5lb pull in the weights. Plus Menorah has never run on soft ground. All runs are good or good to soft. Just wouldn't fancy Menorah personally.

No reason to believe he's better than Gen Miller.

Manyriverstocross looks to be on an interesting mark.

Any Given Day?  Will stay and like the softer ground.  Proven he's in form.

Anyone know whether he's a defo runner?

Yeah 12lbs pull with GMOOH/Menorah given he was beaten 7l in the Totesport Trophy on the same weight at GMOOH. Form just looks a bit sketchy because he tried an unsuitable 2m5f twice last year, prob to avoid Dunguib.

Still though too short for me in this.

gneral miller for me too,been having buttons on him for the champion hurdle,unbeaten fto last 2 seasons,acts around cheltenham(excuse the unseating in the supreme)acts on all grounds)...also think lush life is a nice price as is another of hendersons who has beaten menorah(recieved 10lbs,gets 12lbs in the greatwood)infact has only been beaten by dunraven storm who is looking a decent animal and when tried over 2m4f but didnt get home that day so im thinking a henderson 1-2

CVByrne     08 Nov 10 21:03 
Menorah lost to General Miller at Aintree, and never beat him at Chelts due to his unseating. Yet Miller has a 5lb pull in the weights. Plus Menorah has never run on soft ground. All runs are good or good to soft. Just wouldn't fancy Menorah personally.

No reason to believe he's better than Gen Miller.

I think menorah was in front too long at aintree, I am fairly sure he is a better horse that General tbh. He also hacked up in a soft ground bumper and has had no chance to show whether he likes soft or not since, ground currently good at chelt anyhow (although rain due).

Im a big fan of Menorah aswell but do believe he has a slight preference for decent going so will wait until raceday. His run at Aintree put him up in my estimation, given he had just ran the race of his life at the festival whilst General Miller was the fresher horse. General Miller is a very decent beast in his own right,too, of course, but he does get low at his hurdles and can skim the top of them. He did that a few times last season. Looks a cracking race.

Manyriverstocross is interesting in recept of some good weight. He should be a lot fresher this season as last season he started the campaign on the back of a long summer on the flat, so he could have a productive season this time around over hurdles imo.

Thinking about it, with the weight he receives and the fact he will be a lot fresher this season .. MRTC should have a cracking chance in this imo. Top price 7/1.

MANYRIVERSTOCROSS for me.

Ran a lot better than finishing position suggests in the Neptune when hampered early on, think he'll prefer the drop back to 2 miles as well.
Comes into the race fresh which is a big plus.
Gets a big weight pull with Get Me Out Of Here (form ties in with Menorah) on their Newbury run.
Will surely have been trained specifically for this race, (Menorah first time out, could be starting point for other races?...)
Only negative is that it is trained by Alan King.

Taken 7/1, gl.

Gun, I thought the same thing re King, but he has had plenty of winners lately, and reading his site, they are aiming for the Greatwood having considered the Nov H'Cap. 20/1 was laid on here

Provided he settles and there is a pace on, Sanctuaire will absolutely murder this lot. However if he doesn't setlle he will have no chance especially in that ground. 11/2 is short in my book, 8s would be more tempting.

Does anyone know if Olofi was tipped up somewhere as his price has crashed from 33/1 to 14's.

thats with PP, still 20s about at the moment. I do like olofi but i think he's just a little shy of winning this and probably wants a little further and possibly a fence. Deffo place claims though.

Market support for the pipe horse i see :) I have a feeling she could take the piss out of her mark. watched the david pipe stable tour when it came to discussing sure josie sure he was a little reserved which tends to be a good thing :)

I don't know why leslingtaylor is 100 on here or 66/1 with the bookies. We are intending to run and he will appreciate the cut in the ground.The gound at Wincanton last weekend was too quick for him but he has improved 10lbs on the flat this year after a couple of ops in the Spring (wind and knee).He has already won two class 1's and 3 class 2's but all on flat tracks.He has never run well at Cheltenham but still, at 66/1 you can't have everything in your favour.

form doesnt look great

Was Alan King referring to MRTC when he said ''best chance of the weekend'' in the weekender ? I am only going on what is serialised on the homepage of the RP site .. so no horse is mentioned

could not touch lesling in this sort of class. good luck though

Me neither. Was expecting a lot better last time tbh despite the ground.

This thread in need of a bit of love. Cracking race not many views.

Alan King had the first winner at Chelts today and reading his website he is hopeful of a big run from MRTC.

Alan King had 1 more winner at Cheltenham today,Devil To Pay, and just had another beaten a neck by the 11/8 fav Moon Indigo at Wetherby. Given the size of his yard/number of runners i'd say his horses are in good form. A certain improvement on how he started last season so you'd think the bug/problem is dealt with now.

Manyriverstocross does look nicely handicapped for this – e.g. is 12lb better with Get Me Out Of Here after finishing third to him in the Totesport Gold Trophy at Newbury in February.

Should be suited by a strongly run race, acts on the ground, stable in good form, King thinks it’s his best chance of the meeting and looks the one to beat to me.

firmly in the general miller camp myself

Manyriverstocross at these weights should run a big race,has to surely,stable has hit form as well,has to be backed imo

Monster performance from the winner conceding all that weight. The 3rd home is likely to win a good handicap this season aswell,imo.

wd WOSP and Menorah backers.

WD Perp.

Anyone else think it was a disadvantage to run round the outside of the field today as Menorah did ?

I think the horse deserves even greater credit for that performance as he gave up the outside to no one and if you look at the next race on the card the first and second both hugged the inside of the track (and yes they were well handicapped anyway).

I have just had my first ante post bet for Cheltenham this year on Menorah for the CH on the back of that run.

He ran around the outside because that's where all the best ground was and the horses likes the better ground. It was a good tactic more than a hinderence imo.

are you sure ?

All the fancied horses ridden by the top jockeys went nthe outside so I don't thik it was a disadvantage to Menorah.

General Miller and, to a lesser extent, Get me Out Of Here both ran appallingly when you consider how their form tied in with the winner.

Yep they were saying in commentary that jockeys said the outside line had the best ground. So it was a good decision to send Menorah on the outside given he won the race in the end. Credit due for that decision.

mmm, I didn't think the ground was that bad at Cheltenham and I have always wondered about that tactic there.

Any perceived advantage has to be negated somewhat by the amount of ground the horse loses rounds the bends.

I rate the run better as a result of that manouevre, if I am in a minority of one thinking that then so be it.

I don't agree, why would they take that line if the advantage was negated? Johnson did a great job in knowing Menorah would be better sticking to the better ground and would be less tired at the end. I think he idles a little bit on the run in. But dug deep.

Anyway, people are getting a bit carried away with his win. Menorah has to continue improving. There are no form lines between last seasons novices and last years Champion field.

Aside from Hurricane Fly and Solwhit mullering the Supreme 3rd Dunguib at Punchestown, that is.

He will continue to improve though. I hope he is done with the Handicaps now. I want him in the bula.

CV

We will agree to disagree on this one then.

I ain't get carried away by him, he certainly has to improve and find another 20lb on official ratings in comparison to the the likes of Binocular who sets the standard. We know he likes the track, will be better of faster ground, gets up the hill and battles so some admirable qualities there.   

As I look at the CH market I think there are doubts about a few near the head of the market, so I have added this fella to the portfolio as a viable alternative to Binocular at this stage. 

The Bula or the Christmas Hurdle at Kempton is the target according to P Hobbs on the RP website.

GMOOH ran a shocker full stop given he had the benefit of a run this season. General Miller is easily worth another shot , and listening to connections pre-race, they strangely did not harbour much hope of winning today. I dont know if it was due to fitness or something else but that's the impression I got.

I think they said they wished they could have got a run into General Miller before this, but he seemed in good form at home. That was in the days leading up to the race. I'd agree he should be given another chance given he beat Menorah last season.

Fair comment,but it does look like Menorah has improved,as one would expect of course.
Whatever way you look at it,menorah was 1st time out also and gave weight and a beating to the lot of them.Hard to see any of them reversing that imo.Menorah will probably now be running in top races i should think,not sure Gen Millar will be opposing him myself.

Yeah I'd be of the belief now Miller beat Menorah at Aintree becuase of the latters tough race at Cheltenham. But hopefully Miller can run in another handicap and be a decent price.

cheers TD and Sint, even a blind squirrel finds the odd nut!!

TBH id not have backed him on Sunday on that ground, so was blessed that I played ante post!