Horse Antepost
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17 Oct 10
18:54
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12 Sep 05
not the Guineas? 
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^^^^^^ Oh Dear dananders/dananderson [smiley:crazy]
there may have been mention of eric morris having had a few quid on frankel in the derby, but he doesn't like to bring it up to often
just kidding eric [;)]
just kidding eric [;)]
Thread title doesnt apply to me I have him Guineas and Derby. Anyone who has him just the Derby needs to ignore all media coverage until after the Guineas. HRAC often gives Royal Ascot a mention re his horses when they end up in the Derby. He did it most recently with Bullet Train last season saying King Edward as he may not be good enough for the Derby but did a late about turn.
Turned out HRAC was right as after his impressive win over 1m3f in the Lingfield Derby Trial the horse has been last over 1m2f and has shown to have not been good enough, he should have gone King Edward.
Frankel is several classes above Bullet Train and class is a word HRAC emphasises re the Derby. Frankel has the breeding for the Derby and as with all horses, Sea The Stars included, they werent sure they would get the trip until the day. In fact think Sea The Stars was around 100/30 on Derby day after winning the Guineas? Frankel will not be such a generous price if as I think, he will be given the chance to become an all-time great after the Guineas. HRAC has notably recently mentioned talking to the prince about upping in trip later and letting the horse tell him.
There is surely nobody in racing would turn down a chance to see a horse who could turn out to be the best since or better than Sea Bird. The way he finishes his races so strongly at a mile makes me more confident he will get a mile than I was about Sea The Stars after the Guineas.
Those holding 25s the Derby can firstly be pleased they spotted a great horse before it happened and secondly should wait until after the Guineas when the mood in the air with connections will be to show what Frankel can do to take his place with the other all-time greats and that can only happen if he is stepped up to the Derby and Arc.
Turned out HRAC was right as after his impressive win over 1m3f in the Lingfield Derby Trial the horse has been last over 1m2f and has shown to have not been good enough, he should have gone King Edward.
Frankel is several classes above Bullet Train and class is a word HRAC emphasises re the Derby. Frankel has the breeding for the Derby and as with all horses, Sea The Stars included, they werent sure they would get the trip until the day. In fact think Sea The Stars was around 100/30 on Derby day after winning the Guineas? Frankel will not be such a generous price if as I think, he will be given the chance to become an all-time great after the Guineas. HRAC has notably recently mentioned talking to the prince about upping in trip later and letting the horse tell him.
There is surely nobody in racing would turn down a chance to see a horse who could turn out to be the best since or better than Sea Bird. The way he finishes his races so strongly at a mile makes me more confident he will get a mile than I was about Sea The Stars after the Guineas.
Those holding 25s the Derby can firstly be pleased they spotted a great horse before it happened and secondly should wait until after the Guineas when the mood in the air with connections will be to show what Frankel can do to take his place with the other all-time greats and that can only happen if he is stepped up to the Derby and Arc.
I will be waiting until after the Guineas to discuss him in the Derby as only then will we know he is going there. Good discussions if you want to speculate in the meantime.
On massive at 33's for the Derby, after his maiden win he looked like a stayer ffs , now is a ****in speed merchant! 
Owner and trainer have the third favourite for the derby, which is bred too stay and won by thirty lengths last time out and as been backed over the last ten days and is by the same sire as Harbinger.
That would be me. 33/1 for the Derby nowt for the Guineas.
Every chance to stay the trip on breeding as was the case when I backed him - I am more inclined to follow the excellent Jamesp on this than the many other breeding experts. Nothing will be decided anyway until after he has run in the Guineas. As for the argument that he will fail to train on I cant remember too many by Galileo who fell into that category - non doubt others will provide examples to back up their theory (and yes I know he is a very early foal BTW)
All about prestige with the KA horses. Very nice to have aclear 2yo champion miler, infinitely better to have a Champion at both distances. Hard to see them not at least having a shot at a longer trip via Lingfield or the Dante all being well.
If I'm wrong it was still a ******* good AP bet at the odds.
(Just remembered I said on another thread I wouldnt mention him again until March
). So that is definitely it for now.
Every chance to stay the trip on breeding as was the case when I backed him - I am more inclined to follow the excellent Jamesp on this than the many other breeding experts. Nothing will be decided anyway until after he has run in the Guineas. As for the argument that he will fail to train on I cant remember too many by Galileo who fell into that category - non doubt others will provide examples to back up their theory (and yes I know he is a very early foal BTW)
All about prestige with the KA horses. Very nice to have aclear 2yo champion miler, infinitely better to have a Champion at both distances. Hard to see them not at least having a shot at a longer trip via Lingfield or the Dante all being well.
If I'm wrong it was still a ******* good AP bet at the odds.
(Just remembered I said on another thread I wouldnt mention him again until March
). So that is definitely it for now.
HRAC is already looking at how well Frankel has settled at home and we know he settled well in the Royal Lodge also off a slowish pace. Think at the back of his mind he is looking at him for all trips but plans either way will only become clear after the Guineas. Why heap more pressure on yourself than is necessary of course they wont declare solid targets until then.
Queally said: "He's a superstar, and it's nice to have done it when it mattered. He's done it well and he's very special.
"He got a bit of a bump on leaving stalls and that set him alight, but he quickened up well and put the race to bed. He wandered a bit off a true line on the ground, but we'll forgive him that!"
Cecil added: "He'd been relaxing well at home but that bump set him alight - in his work he is very relaxed, but when you get a nasty bump like that it makes a difference.
"But he won very well and he never had to hit him. It was lovely and I'm very lucky to have him."
Cecil continued: "I'm hopeful that he will make a Guineas horse and maybe the St James's Palace, whether he will get further we'll have to see and I'll need to talk to the Prince (Khalid Abdullah, owner) about that.
"I've never had a horse work like him as a two-year-old and the last one I remember who was similar would be Arazi. He goes into a sixth gear.
"If he was a Formula One car he'd win everything unless I was driving him!"
Queally said: "He's a superstar, and it's nice to have done it when it mattered. He's done it well and he's very special.
"He got a bit of a bump on leaving stalls and that set him alight, but he quickened up well and put the race to bed. He wandered a bit off a true line on the ground, but we'll forgive him that!"
Cecil added: "He'd been relaxing well at home but that bump set him alight - in his work he is very relaxed, but when you get a nasty bump like that it makes a difference.
"But he won very well and he never had to hit him. It was lovely and I'm very lucky to have him."
Cecil continued: "I'm hopeful that he will make a Guineas horse and maybe the St James's Palace, whether he will get further we'll have to see and I'll need to talk to the Prince (Khalid Abdullah, owner) about that.
"I've never had a horse work like him as a two-year-old and the last one I remember who was similar would be Arazi. He goes into a sixth gear.
"If he was a Formula One car he'd win everything unless I was driving him!"
Interesting how the RPost chose not to quote the 'whether he'll get further we'll have to see and I'll need to talk to the Prince about that' Cecil made after the Dewhurst, see Sporting Life site quotes in my post above, with an earlier quote after the Royal Lodge where when HRAC was put under the spotlight he said, see RPost website, 'I am not going to try and make him a Derby horse if he's not going to stay'.
Even though the last statement more or less says he could go Derby if I think He'll stay, why would you hunt out an old quote for that instead and purposefully omit the quote re talking to the Prince with this?
Could it be that just before the Dewhurst Wiseprice tipped up his stablemate for the Derby? For me this is just another example of the twisted impression the RPost can give of discussions and the main reason I stopped buying it. I wouldnt go as far to suggest some of the reporters bet and would like to see certain horses turn up in certain races but I'm sure some might which is why they need to provide full quotes to their readers otherwise it can cost you a lot of money. Antepost I felt misled on some targets at the time and stopped buying it.
Even though the last statement more or less says he could go Derby if I think He'll stay, why would you hunt out an old quote for that instead and purposefully omit the quote re talking to the Prince with this?
Could it be that just before the Dewhurst Wiseprice tipped up his stablemate for the Derby? For me this is just another example of the twisted impression the RPost can give of discussions and the main reason I stopped buying it. I wouldnt go as far to suggest some of the reporters bet and would like to see certain horses turn up in certain races but I'm sure some might which is why they need to provide full quotes to their readers otherwise it can cost you a lot of money. Antepost I felt misled on some targets at the time and stopped buying it.
Think it might have been Paul Nicholls wasnt happy re the RPost misquoting him recently which could be one of the reasons why he jumped ship to here instead. They are in a position of responsibility and should print any quotes from connections word for word without their own slant on it imo.
i meant the derby trip rowley calm down son dont have a fit
I'm on at 25/1 for Derby only.
I didn't think he would be aimed at the Guineas when placing bet. How many Guineas winners run first time out over a mile?
I'm dismayed by this talk of Royal Ascot and hope the Prince has other ideas. I believe the stamina of Galileo, who only won Group 1's at 12f, is being vastly underestimated. As a stallion, he has sired 4 St Leger winners (Alandi, Allegretto, Sixties Icon, Sans Frontierre) covering England, France and Ireland.
I didn't think he would be aimed at the Guineas when placing bet. How many Guineas winners run first time out over a mile?
I'm dismayed by this talk of Royal Ascot and hope the Prince has other ideas. I believe the stamina of Galileo, who only won Group 1's at 12f, is being vastly underestimated. As a stallion, he has sired 4 St Leger winners (Alandi, Allegretto, Sixties Icon, Sans Frontierre) covering England, France and Ireland.
I'm on for the Derby only however think about this ... if the horse is THAT good and hoses up in the 2000 gns and looks like it has a chance of staying and could be one of the very very best that we have ever seen would King Henry not try the Derby. Course he would. If Henry decides to take the fizz out of him early in the Craven without the noseband and the horse settles we are nearly there boys. Equally if the horse strengthens we have potentially a most remarkable machine. So don't give up yet.
Exactly. Maybe they should have kept Sea The Stars, Sea Bird, Nijinsky and Mill Reef at a mile as well .. what fun that would have been.
over rated for sure (wont go near it at that price)[:x]
Looks like HRAC doesnt rate Picture Editor as highly as some might think. Wondered why, like Frankel, he wasnt being thrown in against the best.
A crack at Group One company in Saturday's Racing Post Trophy had been mentioned as a possibility but trainer Henry Cecil has opted to stay relatively low-key instead with the Dansili colt.
"I want to run Picture Editor down here at Newmarket on October 30 in the Zetland Stakes," he told www.henrycecil.com.
"He has shown promise but do not think he would benefit from a top-flight race like the Racing Post Trophy this season. It could be the undoing of him."
A crack at Group One company in Saturday's Racing Post Trophy had been mentioned as a possibility but trainer Henry Cecil has opted to stay relatively low-key instead with the Dansili colt.
"I want to run Picture Editor down here at Newmarket on October 30 in the Zetland Stakes," he told www.henrycecil.com.
"He has shown promise but do not think he would benefit from a top-flight race like the Racing Post Trophy this season. It could be the undoing of him."
12/1 !! Motivator was 8/1 after winning the Racing Post Trophy.
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