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09 Oct 10
14:01
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Date Joined:
20 Sep 06
Frankel explosive in final serious Dewhurst work
By Tony Elves 9:02AM 9 OCT 2010 FRANKEL looked every inch the potential champion that connections hope he will be with an explosive workout on Racecourse Side in Newmarket on Saturday morning as he had his final serious gallop before next Saturday's Group 1 Dubai Dewhurst Stakes.
The impressive Royal Lodge winner had been displayed to a press gathering on Warren Hill on Friday morning when enjoying two canters but this time it was work proper as he cantered down the back of the Rowley Mile racecourse under Tom Queally.
Working over seven furlongs on the across-the-flat gallop, Frankel settled in beautifully behind his older lead companion but when pulled out in the closing stages devoured the ground as he cruised at least ten lengths clear.
Trainer Henry Cecil, with typical understatement, said: "I very happy wih that and he hopefully goes there with a good chance.
"The ground this morning was riding beautiful and let's hope we get good ground for the Dewhurst.
"He had a nice blow when he pulled up but a few minutes later he would hardly have blown a candle out. Let's just hope we get there now."
The Khalid Adbdullah-owned colt will now continue routine work now with a less strenous gallop likely on Wednesday morning.
^ surely there aren't still silly people out there who think he might actually get beat in the dewhurst? [;)]
By Tony Elves 9:02AM 9 OCT 2010 FRANKEL looked every inch the potential champion that connections hope he will be with an explosive workout on Racecourse Side in Newmarket on Saturday morning as he had his final serious gallop before next Saturday's Group 1 Dubai Dewhurst Stakes.
The impressive Royal Lodge winner had been displayed to a press gathering on Warren Hill on Friday morning when enjoying two canters but this time it was work proper as he cantered down the back of the Rowley Mile racecourse under Tom Queally.
Working over seven furlongs on the across-the-flat gallop, Frankel settled in beautifully behind his older lead companion but when pulled out in the closing stages devoured the ground as he cruised at least ten lengths clear.
Trainer Henry Cecil, with typical understatement, said: "I very happy wih that and he hopefully goes there with a good chance.
"The ground this morning was riding beautiful and let's hope we get good ground for the Dewhurst.
"He had a nice blow when he pulled up but a few minutes later he would hardly have blown a candle out. Let's just hope we get there now."
The Khalid Adbdullah-owned colt will now continue routine work now with a less strenous gallop likely on Wednesday morning.
^ surely there aren't still silly people out there who think he might actually get beat in the dewhurst? [;)]
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I have never read a gallops report from a journalist that said a horse worked poorly
Don't care what frankel has done. the only value in the race is the dolphin horse e/w
that horse surely will place.
that horse surely will place.
gallops reports biggest loada balloney in the industry.
Id rather trust a going report from the clerk of the course.
Id rather trust a going report from the clerk of the course.
The lead horse could have been carrying 2 stone more than frankel or 2 stone less therfore it means absolutely sweet F.A
More than likely he'd have been working with a usual companion though Geoff,so connections would have a good yardstick as to where they stand leading up to a big race ?.
Without suggesting in any way this is the case here,i've read about plenty of horses over the years who have put in their best piece of work late in a season,right before flopping and being declared 'over the top'.
Without suggesting in any way this is the case here,i've read about plenty of horses over the years who have put in their best piece of work late in a season,right before flopping and being declared 'over the top'.
More than likely top div.
But it has no bearing on his chance in the dewhurst apart from confirming everythings o.k.
That said he seems to have excited henry whos not known to go overboard
But it has no bearing on his chance in the dewhurst apart from confirming everythings o.k.
That said he seems to have excited henry whos not known to go overboard
I'm wondering whether the race report this weekend will report that Frankel was 'more than a little coltish' as the way the media are queueing up to collectively blow him, he'd be some animal to resist 
Ten lengths clear in a gallop. 
I'm sure the lead freewheeled the closing stages, if not the jockey was out the yard.
I'm sure the lead freewheeled the closing stages, if not the jockey was out the yard.
Top Div -
Without suggesting in any way this is the case here,i've read about plenty of horses over the years who have put in their best piece of work late in a season,right before flopping and being declared 'over the top'.
This is my concern too. Not suggesting its likely but it immediately crossed my mind when i read it.
Without suggesting in any way this is the case here,i've read about plenty of horses over the years who have put in their best piece of work late in a season,right before flopping and being declared 'over the top'.
This is my concern too. Not suggesting its likely but it immediately crossed my mind when i read it.
He wont train on 
looks fully grown already
should go to breeders cup and take the money while its on offer
in one of the juvinile races
looks fully grown already
should go to breeders cup and take the money while its on offer
in one of the juvinile races
OH
and when frankie says go in the last half furlong it will be all over
and when frankie says go in the last half furlong it will be all over
Frankel is good no question, but he has beat nothing. Just wait until a 20 runner field turns up. Odds on he is a lay al day in my bok. Henry is great we all know this but 2/1 about next years Guineas is for mug punters. 25/1 Strong Suit just listen to what Hannon says about this big baby. Yes he has been beaten twice once when he made his own running and then on crap ground to the classy Dream Ahead. Come May on good to firm ground his Coventry form will kick in. Hoover up those long odds and leave Frankel well alone at those skiny odds.
bigblobby 12 Oct 10 08:50
He wont train on,
Is Galileo the sort of stallion who's stock as a rule don't train on?To me I'd be more surprised if he doesn't train on,from what we have seen so far with both Frankel and Saamidd,Saamidd needs to improve to get near Frankle.
Plenty of people at the time said the same thing about Zafonic........looking like a 3'y old!
He wont train on,
Is Galileo the sort of stallion who's stock as a rule don't train on?To me I'd be more surprised if he doesn't train on,from what we have seen so far with both Frankel and Saamidd,Saamidd needs to improve to get near Frankle.
Plenty of people at the time said the same thing about Zafonic........looking like a 3'y old!
Think you've got to look at the progression of Bullet Train, his first three performances were the sign of a promising colt but he never went on from that. In my opinion there has to be a chance of Frankel being similar. That doesn't mean here and now he's not going to win on Saturday though, think he's worthy favourite. Will probably just watch the race myself.
That's true but for me Frankel looks a whole lot better than Bullet Train,you are a shrewd judge of runners do you think Frankel looks the sort to train on being a son of Galileo?
celestialalltheway
You say Coventry form will kick in next year but is that form that good?
You say Coventry form will kick in next year but is that form that good?
Buick reckons Dream Ahead is the best he has sat on,albeit in a short career. TBF DA beat much higher rated horses than Frankel and just as easily in the Middle Park and he won a group 1 easily on his 2nd start. If he was with a bigger yard he would be much shorter. Frankel could be anything but what has he actually beaten so far?
Interesting that Buick rode Nathanial when Frankel won by half a length on his debut. DA was all the rage on his debut and won by a street. I wonder how Buick rates Nathanial?
Interesting that Buick rode Nathanial when Frankel won by half a length on his debut. DA was all the rage on his debut and won by a street. I wonder how Buick rates Nathanial?
Prima IMHO, Saamidh probably could have beaten the horses he did by more but Frankie is too shrewd, he knew what he had and how to conserve it, like Kinane and STS. I don't think Queally gave Frankel a great ride the last day, he'll have learn't nothing. You couldn't be surprised if Frankel won but nor would it surprise me if he didn't as he's not battlehardened
Indeed he does look better Prima, I think Henry's learnt from his handling of Bullet Train and pushed Frankel that little bit more at 2 for that reason. Using Bullet Train I'd be inclined to say no but the rest of the family plus Galileo's obvious talents as a sire would offer plenty of encouragement. Would say it's too hard to judge for me at the moment (never deal in absolutes anyway) but if he doesn't take the Dewhurst then I'd certainly have in mind to be taking him on in most things next year assuming a fair race. Also think his price doesn't offer much room for the chance of him not training on so from a value perspective backing him for the Guineas doesn't look great.
Neil, fair points about being battle hardened but it's hardly his or the jockeys fault nothing's got him off the bridle and there's no way you go looking for trouble, the horse was so good that he could just waltz past them in the Royal Lodge. He probably won't do that against speedier types but he can certainly live with them on all evidence we've seen so far.
Mg, Nathanial's nowhere near Frankel, don't listen to Thommo making it out to be a close race!
Neil, fair points about being battle hardened but it's hardly his or the jockeys fault nothing's got him off the bridle and there's no way you go looking for trouble, the horse was so good that he could just waltz past them in the Royal Lodge. He probably won't do that against speedier types but he can certainly live with them on all evidence we've seen so far.
Mg, Nathanial's nowhere near Frankel, don't listen to Thommo making it out to be a close race!
Dream Ahead has a much, much bigger chance of winning than 21% (rated higher than Frankel; according to Timeform he produced a better performance on the clock than Frankel did in the Royal Lodge; winner of two group ones).
For that reason alone, I've gratefully taken the 7/2. If he gets pushed out on Saturday then I'll go in again. Frankel could well be a superstar, but imho the price is pretty ludicrous.
For that reason alone, I've gratefully taken the 7/2. If he gets pushed out on Saturday then I'll go in again. Frankel could well be a superstar, but imho the price is pretty ludicrous.
mythical prince Joined:
Replies: 1736 12 Oct 10 18:43
i'm as excited as i can be about this dewhurst. not because i believe it to be a competitive contest but because i believe that after the race we'll be hailing a true superstar in the shape of FRANKEL
in fact i fully expect to be running up the rowley mile naked if he doesn't oblige
Replies: 1736 12 Oct 10 18:43
i'm as excited as i can be about this dewhurst. not because i believe it to be a competitive contest but because i believe that after the race we'll be hailing a true superstar in the shape of FRANKEL
in fact i fully expect to be running up the rowley mile naked if he doesn't oblige
Ben10 - Not for one minute suggesting that first run should be taken literally, but as Buick was on board the runner up and he has publicly talked up Dream Ahead i wonder how far ahead of Nathanial he rates Dream Ahead. Some way judging on his comments. If Cecil/Stoute/Gosden trained DA then he wouldn't be 3/1.
If any of them trained him I don't think he'd be in the Dewhurst, two Group 1s I'd be done for the year myself. Can see what you're saying for sure, but with all respect to Buick he's hardly sat on many superstars in his short career so far.
not one to believe to much in these gallop reports(for betting purposes)but just listened to tony elves on RPTV and for some reason he wouldn't name the companion whom Frankel galloped with.
Anyone know who it was?
thanks
Anyone know who it was?
thanks
A few said it was Bullet Train on the HR forum, no idea if they are correct though.
cheers TD,just thought it strange on RPTV he said it would not be fair to name his galloping companion
and yet he named who dream ahead galloped with
Elves have always been a big fan of Cecil so dont put too much into what he writes about Cecil horses.
Incidentally Elves could not find the 7 l Derby winner this year at the Newmarket Galops.
Incidentally Elves could not find the 7 l Derby winner this year at the Newmarket Galops.
So he blew his dissapointing(last in his previous visit to a racecourse) 109 rated 1/2 brother away in a gallop.
Wow we woo.
WTF is their to get excited by that.
He did what he was surely expected to do which is blew him away & no doubt Saamid & Dream Ahead would have done similar to that rival.
Aint knocking the horse but these gallop reports mean what?
he still has 4 legs & a tail & is well in himself
Wow we woo.
WTF is their to get excited by that.
He did what he was surely expected to do which is blew him away & no doubt Saamid & Dream Ahead would have done similar to that rival.
Aint knocking the horse but these gallop reports mean what?
he still has 4 legs & a tail & is well in himself
Only time I've found a gallop report useful was when they mentioned Arctic Cosmos was being galloped in blinkers in the build up to the Leger, very little to take from them and Elves in particular comes out with some shockers in the Post.
the gallop gives no clues, we dont even know the weights they were carrying, and like geoff, beating his very average tailed off in the derby half brother isnt anything to write home about. i think hes a smashing horse but i expect him to have a tough race on his hands, 4/7 fav with a duel g1 winner and saamidd(who is my idea of the winner) who has shown more than enough in 2 runs so far, astonishing price imo, wouldnt touch it with a barge pole, and i wouldnt totally write off some of the larger priced horses either. much better 4/7 shots every day, just let him win if in fact he does.
tony elves said on the racing post tv that "frankel was absolutely breathtaking in his gallop, breathtaking in everyway" and that "frightening for his opponents he seems to have improved since the royal lodge"
i always feel elves is biased towards cecil and stoute myself.
if u listened to every horse that was described as breath taking in their gallop, you'd soon be in the poor house imo.
When I race me elder family member(me grandma) down the street i also look breathtaking in every way.
These gallops must be a right waste of time, wonder Cecil, Stoute and co bother.
Frankel's BHA mark is 123, Dream Ahead's 128. Dream Ahead has won two Group 1's in emphatic style, Frankel has won a Group 2 equally impressively. Dream Ahead has beaten superior opposition. Frankel has been very keen in his races and this step up in class may or may not find him out. Dream Ahead had the Coventry Stakes Group 2 winner NINE lenghts adrift, with a Group 3 winner Approve third. 2's on or 7/2 I know which one I want
then you will end up in the poor house caward
The 1/2 winner is no guarantee tho until after the event is it?
Taking 1/2 on something that should be closer to evens pre race then you will certainly end up doing your dough
Taking 1/2 on something that should be closer to evens pre race then you will certainly end up doing your dough
Just stating that i would rather back the winner of the race rather than the horse that will probobly finish 2nd or 3rd.
but thats the whole point.
Pre race you don not know & therefore it is all price dependent.
On all known form the 2nd fave has just as good if not better from in the book .
Pre race you don not know & therefore it is all price dependent.
On all known form the 2nd fave has just as good if not better from in the book .
Don't get me wrong Geoff m, Dream Ahead is a very good colt its just that i happen to believe Frankel is better and hope to see him prove it on Saturday. Racing needs superstars and this horse could be one.
How can you say in the form book? You can't compare the horses you need to make your mind up which one you think is the better horse. You can't say a horse is beaten on form when its never been extended in its life.
Frankel is the best 2yo I have and will ever see. He will put the form in the book when he thrashes good horses this saturday. Then you can compare form. This horse should be 4/11F
Frankel is the best 2yo I have and will ever see. He will put the form in the book when he thrashes good horses this saturday. Then you can compare form. This horse should be 4/11F
Dont get me wrong caward. Im convinced Frankel is out the top drawer.
He just aint a betting proposition @ 4/7 ish.
He just aint a betting proposition @ 4/7 ish.
they have both looked high class 2 year olds.
its a mouth watering contest, and i think frankel will come out on top. but the pricing is wrong
i do believe they are making a mistake running dream ahead tho.
he is already a dual group one winning juvenile. the ground looks like its going away from him. and can he be as potent over 7f as he was over 6f especially on this drying ground. and i wonder if that amazing performance just 2 weeks ago on that ground would of teken the edge off of him
its a mouth watering contest, and i think frankel will come out on top. but the pricing is wrong
i do believe they are making a mistake running dream ahead tho.
he is already a dual group one winning juvenile. the ground looks like its going away from him. and can he be as potent over 7f as he was over 6f especially on this drying ground. and i wonder if that amazing performance just 2 weeks ago on that ground would of teken the edge off of him
Dream Ahead & Saamidd will be the yardsticks that will determine IF Frankel is the next "superstar" but taking odds on when he should be at best evens is insane. No horse has impressed me more than Dream Ahead in the Middle Park and the way he travelled was extrodinary. Frankel won well at Ascot but beat nothing and ran freely, which I don't think he'll be able to do and win on Saturday. IF he wins by six lenghts then quite rightly the superlatives will start but you can't seriously want to risk hard earned cash at 4/11!
I agree but all i was trying to say was backing a horse because its value is all well and good, but you have to think its got a chance of winning otherwise whats the point.
your missing the point Caward
Dream Ahead has a good a chance on all known form as Frankel
Favs 4/7
Dream Ahead 7/2 .
you do the math
Dream Ahead has a good a chance on all known form as Frankel
Favs 4/7
Dream Ahead 7/2 .
you do the math
We seem to be going around in circles, perhaps put simply i think Frankel is better than Dream Ahead, who may have the best public form. I keep reading on this thread and others that Frankel beat nothing or 'trees', Klammer might not be top notch but is more than useful(the horse he beat in France won a Listed race at Longchamp yesterday) and O'Brien would'nt agree that Treasure Beach is nothing. Whoever wins on Saturday then no arguements to who will be champion 2YO but their not machines and any of them can have an off day.
put simply i think Frankel is better than Dream Ahead
You have to consider the odds though . Dream Ahead is nearly 6 times the price of Frankel.
Surely if you think Horse A is a bit better than Horse B you don't back A 4/7 when B is 7/2?
If you think Frankel is different class altogether then fair enough.
You have to consider the odds though . Dream Ahead is nearly 6 times the price of Frankel.
Surely if you think Horse A is a bit better than Horse B you don't back A 4/7 when B is 7/2?
If you think Frankel is different class altogether then fair enough.
Not sure why people are so bothered about the prices the Dewhurst, case of watch any enjoy here and see how the Classics look afterwards ... Loads of fuss when it is day of race prices.
caward Joined: 08 Jun 10
Replies: 18 13 Oct 10 17:09
We seem to be going around in circles, perhaps put simply i think Frankel is better than Dream Ahead, who may have the best public form. I keep reading on this thread and others that Frankel beat nothing or 'trees', Klammer might not be top notch but is more than useful(the horse he beat in France won a Listed race at Longchamp yesterday) and O'Brien would'nt agree that Treasure Beach is nothing. Whoever wins on Saturday then no arguements to who will be champion 2YO but their not machines and any of them can have an off day.
what if slzaam wins? is he the champ? seriously
Replies: 18 13 Oct 10 17:09
We seem to be going around in circles, perhaps put simply i think Frankel is better than Dream Ahead, who may have the best public form. I keep reading on this thread and others that Frankel beat nothing or 'trees', Klammer might not be top notch but is more than useful(the horse he beat in France won a Listed race at Longchamp yesterday) and O'Brien would'nt agree that Treasure Beach is nothing. Whoever wins on Saturday then no arguements to who will be champion 2YO but their not machines and any of them can have an off day.
what if slzaam wins? is he the champ? seriously
sorry 'elzaam' obviously unlikely but i think they could be a shock. i mean is it that simple
frankel
dream ahead
saamidd
123
surely it wont end in any of those order, i see a big priced horse making the frame but which one?
frankel
dream ahead
saamidd
123
surely it wont end in any of those order, i see a big priced horse making the frame but which one?
The shape of this race reminds me of a similar Dewhurst from a few years ago when there were 3 particularly hyped-up horses in Stravinsky (O'Brien), Enrique (Cecil) and Lujain (Loder), one of which was 'certain' to win the race. Race was won by Mujahid, a 25/1 shot, with Auction House (20/1) second.
Reminds me of El Gran Senor (Frankel) Chief Singer (Dream Ahead) and Lear Fan (Saamidd) .... Well that's what I'm hoping.
The way i see it it this (after years of watching hype horses). In any normal year we would probably only see 1 or 2 of these three 2yos line up for the Dewhurst and they'd all be under 2/1 imv. However we have 3 unbeaten horses who have all shown easy group victories last time out. Without Frankel and Saamidd, Dream Ahead would be hailed as a freak already on his 2 G1s so far and odds on. Can all 3 really be that good?
These are lightly raced 2yos. The form book means very little at this stage. They've beaten what's been put in front of them but we don't really know how good they are at this stage (next year is a completely different matter also). So for Frankel to 4/7 in a group 1 having not won a G1 yet and against 2 highly talented group 1/2 winners, i think it's madness. Yes he could well be miles better on the day but you're getting not much better price than his last run against trees. Like i say i'm not going to say any unbeaten 2yo can't win this but i would never go in big at 4/7 in a G1 unless that horse was totally proven in the grade and certainly not against a wide margin last time out G1 winner.
Either lay Frankel or dutch the other 2 imv. There is no justification for backing Frankel at 4/7 in this race until after the event. And none of us know what WILL happen.
These are lightly raced 2yos. The form book means very little at this stage. They've beaten what's been put in front of them but we don't really know how good they are at this stage (next year is a completely different matter also). So for Frankel to 4/7 in a group 1 having not won a G1 yet and against 2 highly talented group 1/2 winners, i think it's madness. Yes he could well be miles better on the day but you're getting not much better price than his last run against trees. Like i say i'm not going to say any unbeaten 2yo can't win this but i would never go in big at 4/7 in a G1 unless that horse was totally proven in the grade and certainly not against a wide margin last time out G1 winner.
Either lay Frankel or dutch the other 2 imv. There is no justification for backing Frankel at 4/7 in this race until after the event. And none of us know what WILL happen.
the presence of only 6 runners must surely play straight into frankels hands.
with no real pace garaunteed we've already seen how explosive he is off a slow gallop.
with no real pace garaunteed we've already seen how explosive he is off a slow gallop.
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