Frankel rated 123

129 timeform!
he does look impressive but hasn't beaten much.
i remember lear fan doing the same in his 2yo season,year after in the guineas he had el gr senor and cheif singer to contend with.

Isn't it best 2 yo performance in the Royal Lodge for 20 years? New approach and Johannesburg were 126 in recent years according to the article.

FRANKEL has been rated as the best winner of the Royal Lodge in 20 years, after the BHA two-year-old handicapper Matthew Tester awarded the colt an offical mark of 123 for his supreme performance at Ascot.
The Henry Cecil-trained colt trounced his rivals by ten lengths, earning an identical RPR of 123 from Racing Post senior two-year-old handicapper Simon Turner in the process, and has the Dubai Dewhurst Stakes as his next intended target, where among others he could meet Godolphin's star colt Saamidd, who would have to be supplemented for the Group 1 contest.

Commenting on the performance, Tester said: "It was impossible not to be impressed with the style of Frankel's win at Ascot on Saturday when landing the Royal Lodge by ten lengths. Whilst it is true that none of his opponents were likely to test a champion, the manner of his run and the huge winning margin has landed him an official rating of 123.

"This is easily the best Royal Lodge performance of the last 20 years and puts him well ahead of horses like Benny The Dip (113) and Mister Baileys (115), who won the race before success in the Derby and the 2,000 Guineas respectively the next year. Eltish at 118 is the next highest winner for this race and he went on to finish second in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile in 1994."

The quality of the opposition that Frankel has beaten so far has been placed under close scrutiny but, should the son of Galileo line up in the Dewhurst, he could face similarly progressive types in Dream Ahead, Native Khan and Saamidd, who is second best in the ante-post markets for the 2,000 Guineas and Investec Derby.

Tester added: "I can't wait to see Frankel take on stronger opposition next time in the Dewhurst Stakes.  In the last ten years the highest rated two-year-olds have been Johannesburg and New Approach, each of whom reached 126.  It is 16 years since Celtic Swing was credited with 130 for crushing his Racing Post Trophy oppositionand it will be exciting to see if Frankel can hit those heights."

Frankel clocked a 10 lengths slower time than poets voice over same course and distance on the   same day.
The performance had little merit on the clock unless you think poets voice and red jazz are
Phenomenal ????

didn't think it was a bad time for an unextended two year old.

Any time students around with a view???

It's difficult to be conclusive but it wouldn't be the first time that the Ascot track has dried out during the course of the afternoon, which is what I reckon happened on Saturday.

tinkler Joined: 02 Sep 10
Replies: 11 28 Sep 10 19:20   


Frankel clocked a 10 lengths slower time than poets voice over same course and distance on the   same day.
The performance had little merit on the clock unless you think poets voice and red jazz are
Phenomenal ????

frankel ran the last three furlongs quicker than poet's voice and red jazz did. which means that the early pace in frankel's race was far slower than in the qe2, so he never had a chance of matching the overall time of that race.

Comparing the time of Frankel's race against Poets Corner's race is a bit unfair. The pacemaker for RVW made sure that it was run at a fast pace and Makfi for one had no answer to it.
Frankel on the other hand coped with a slow early pace and was still different class, it would have been interesting if the pace had been a bit quicker and then a better comparison between the two race times would have been more relevant.

Frankel a good horse no doubt but has gone into over hype. I love the look of him and his performances but I just hate it when horses get so hyped up like this. It just gives them a task of having so much to do to not be a disappointment next year.

All he has beat so far are handicappers

Maybe at the end of the season Timeform can argue who was the greatest horse to have ever walked the planet. Harbinger or Frankel

I think they've lost the plot this year

Seems alot of these 'freak' rating scome at ascot,i have said for a while now that ascot seems to have a 'form' book of its own.

Btw this is not trying to crab the merits of Harbinger or Frankel.

Finally(lol) i also believe that Donny has its own 'form' book as well,anyone else of this opinion,maybe its a case of since the tracks have been re-laid? or probably again i am talking rubbish

if nothing else doesnt this discussion on times show that its about time true breakdowns of races were collated and published in british racing? and if they are these days (ive been away for a while) then apologies

sectionals?....you cud go away for another 50 years....we still wouldn't have them...


racing for change!!

PAH!

http://betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/bloggers/simon-rowlands/simon-rowlands-will-you-be-ascotted-at-the-betfair-week-220910.html

As this article by Simon Rowlands points out, a lot of the talk about freak performances at Ascot isn't substantiated by results on the round course. As far as I'm aware, the only other outstanding run there this year was Harbinger and as it's Britain's premier racecourse I don't think it's unusual to see occasionally great performances there.

I think it's wrong to talk of Frankel as hyped. He's a very good 2yo, there is no hype about it. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he will be a very good 3yo.

Keep Music Evil

You don't have to beat a superstar if you beat horses by huge distances. frankel won the Royal Lodge by 20 lbs - he could maybe have won by further if required. If he had 2 lengths more in hand it would have been another 4 lbs on top. Its not difficult to imagine the second having run 115 so a rating of 129 isn't a complete fantasy.

In respect to his Ascot form, he actually may have only run as well at Ascot as he had at Doncaster, as the horse he beat by at least 42 lbs was a 90 rated horse and to keep Frankel's rating below 130 they had to seriously downgrade for run of the second!

i also think that all horses should be weighed on the day of the race AT the course as it goes.. i would think it was a really relevant piece of information to be fair.

why dont other ppl think this should be the case? if you think that a a pound or five or ten is really relevant in a handicap then why isnt a horse weighing in 10 or 20 kilos heavier or lighter than its last winning performance or whatever relevant too?

fair point morr!!

'Seems alot of these 'freak' rating scome at ascot,i have said for a while now that ascot seems to have a 'form' book of its own.'

Agreed.

will become known as the 'pinch of salt' track in a few years

its a point im amazed that punters dont really care about to be honest..  the weight of a horse on the day of a RACE is far more relevant than the jockey or weight carrying..

if you dont believe me.. get fit, run 400 metres.. then put 10 kilos on and do the same

although im afraid i didnt take the advice 5 weeks ago when he was 16-1 and bigger i know someone who is very close to Henry Cecil and i was informed henry thought it THE BEST 2yo he had ever had including wollow, this was pre donny so after its debut....id heard it before with killer instinct back in the day but it now looks correct.I know a lot of the staff at warren place are on for the 2000g.

Ive no reason to doubt the great man and its just one of those now where we justs pray he stays fit and well and hopefully we can enjoy seeing him over the next year or two.

Punters HAVE called for this 'info' many times....if it wasn't so important why do most trainers have weighbridges?,..i know M.C. PIPE was a believer,
it's very similar to the /in foal/sectionals/breathing op/correct going/ etc debates..

Trying to get these changes implemented is another matter....,it doesn't help when fellow punters 'poo' 'poo' ideas,if they don't think it matters,then surely they can profit from our delusion, 'poo' 'poo'ing'.....hinders any progress in these regards....
not a fan of '''poo'''pooers.[:x]

id rather SAAMIDD at the prices and also think hes possibly the better horse!! ill be laying frankel @ 1/3 in a matchbet against saamidd in the dewhurst anyway!!

Figgis it is hype. He has proved nothing apart from smashing some pretty moderate horses. I really like Frankel don't get me wrong but he has it all to prove imo.
I agree with the talk about Ascot a bit because I just think some horses don't run their race whereas others seem to love it.

A form rating of 123 leaves him only a stone clear of greatness and around 8lbs less to prove than any other 2yo this season.

Only a very good 2yo could record the time he recorded at Doncaster in that style, that wasn't hype, it was actually a better performance than at Ascot, in my view.

of course it isn't hype. why do people have to be so cynical? if you can't get excited about horses like frankel youre in the wrong game imo.

ffs im not saying the horse is just hype. i am saying that he has a lot to prove based on all the hype in the media etc. yes hes a very good 2 year old but hes beat nothing yet and has a winter ahead of him yet. hes not sea the stars calm down and let him write his own legacy. any1 remember SNA apparently the best horse ever at ballydoyle and the next sea the stars. where is he?

id have to agree with MM there!!he looks brilliant and im not putting him down, i just feel hes worth taking on at odds of 1/3 v saamidd in a matchbet for example as its going to be the 1st time he has a REAL race as such!!the last time he was in a big field and run at a decent pace he won by a cosy  half length from a horse that got beat nto!!!

couldnt agree more with Mythical there...ever time threads start on good horses people come on and go through the form book finding negatives and basically putting a downer on things...just chill out, enjoy him and BELIEVE he is the real deal instead of boring me to death.

Rtaings are just someones judgement, use your own eyes and stop breaking everything down in to pounds and pence.

^ ok so no1 can have an opinion? i like the horse i dont know why you all get so emotional when all i am is a little reserved about what he has achieved.

A competitive Dewhurst will show how good Frankel is.
The horse is likely to go off 1/2 or shorter ,so any punter worth his salt is going to look for
reasons to oppose him and given the below average time he did at ascot that could be enough.
I doubt the horse is a superstar but he could be good enough to win the Guineas before later developing
horses overtaken him later in the year.

the istabraq years Joined: 12 Jun 05
Replies: 246 30 Sep 10 19:32   

get real will u, with your approach to racing u must have done your conkers on st nich for the guineas after his racing post win or are you one of the many frankel supporters that wasnt impressed by st nich

fcukin hilarious on here sometimes!!we're just expressing our opinions, thank god theres some of us out there who actually dont think hes the greatest of all time!!jesus christ!

It doesn't sound like anyone's implying he is the greatest of all time,but anyone who understands racing can see he is a very nice prospect,certainly the most impressive 2,y'old so far this term.
Plenty have said he beat nothing yet that may be the case,but none of the trainers who sent colts to Ascot would send them there for that race just for the hell of it ,they all must of felt they were GR or listed class runners in their opinion,Frankel was just so much better than anything else.From what we have seen (including Saamidd) if he goes to NMKT for the Dewhurst the result will be the same.