Canford Cliffs NR

"Obviously the big race is still three days away and horses can change quickly, but we will have CC scoped and if his reading is good, I see no reason why he should not be very hard to beat"

Read that yesterday and thought it was an odd thing to say about horses changing quickly, and also dropping in the scope news but presumed it was just so they had an excuse if he was beaten. Seems it was lining up the NR tho...

Did Ballydoyle buy CC a few weeks ago, or has the deal still to be finalised. Either way it doesn't add up, and Hannon's bluff was called by Dezangles, or Ballydoyle want RVW to be given a better chance.

Another thing i should state for what it's worth, all CC backers(of which i'm not one) should be given their money back. Something was a miss, as the bookies said they shortened Makfi on the premise that CC wasn't being supported which to me doesn't make sense, because if Makfi wasn't being supported either then why shorten him ?....i think they did know as they seem to with O'Brien runners quite often.

Ballydoyle runners rather *

Graeme, surely those that "knew" would have had a cut at something against CC if they "knew" he wasn't lining up and surely the books wouldn't have layed makfi 2-1 if they knew there was something a miss with cc, sure makfi is now 8-11.

Only Graeme could manage to blame Ballydoyle for this

With hindsight (wonderful stuff) its surprising that Hannon didnt enter Dick Turpin as a fallback. Earlier in the year such double-entries were made regularly.

Always assuming DT is fit and well right now obviously.

Think Dick Turpin has finished for the year, i read it somewhere.........

That would explain it otherwise the conspiracy theorists might have a field day.

"Graeme, surely those that "knew" would have had a cut at something against CC if they "knew" he wasn't lining up and surely the books wouldn't have layed makfi 2-1 if they knew there was something a miss with cc, sure makfi is now 8-11."



Makfi was 13/8 the same as CC with some firms. I think Albion Dan is correct with regards to Hannon's comment about the scope being a bit suspect.

Makfi had every right to be disputing favouritism though.
Had he been trained in Britain the prices would have been much closer and he probably would have been favourite.

If something was amiss bigger prices than 2.7 would have been layed here yesterday evening/ last night.

A conspiracy theory over nothing imo.

I said elsewhere I thought Coral were the only ones to have priced it up correctly, however I was shocked at how weak CC had been in the market 2bh.

It's not a conspiracy theory, gambling is a dirty game and a lot of the time the bookmakers find out before the punters. I also think there's nothing wrong with Canford Cliffs and it's no coincedence this happens after Ballydoyle strike a deal to buy him. I've read Hannon's site a lot and he's never before mentioned a horse will run as long as it scopes alright. I actually said yesterday evening that CC was a lay so i've no agenda apart from thinking that something is out of place and that people who backed CC have been mugged.

I beleive that deal was publically finalised at least a few weeks ago.
Is there a chance that the scope did just come back unsatisfactory ?
Or was this a test for the hannons i.e; the mafia telling them "you're one of us now" ?

dirty scope seems to be replacing stone bruise as trainer's favourite excuse for withdrawing.

I put in a bet on Canford Cliffs yesterday evening at 2.75. I cancelled it before I went to bed as it hadn't been matched.

Had anything, even a rumour that there was something wrong with him that bet would have been matched, no question.

The reason Canford Cliffs was weak, imo of course, was that 11/10 or 5/4 or whatever he was early when the market was formed, was an absolutely shocking price against Makfi and Rip Van Winkle. It was drifting to a proper price that more reflected his chance of winning.

As for the suggestion that the rumoured sale to Coolmore for his stallion career would somehow allow them major influence about where he runs this year I think that is way off. If a number has been agreed though I could see connections not willing to risk him and exercise caution by scoping him before the race.

sensible post imo

Tavaris Jackson     23 Sep 10 12:42 




As for the suggestion that the rumoured sale to Coolmore for his stallion career would somehow allow them major influence about where he runs this year I think that is way off. If a number has been agreed though I could see connections not willing to risk him and exercise caution by scoping him before the race.


Its not a rumour CC HAS been sold to Coolmore,its not that they want to protect him......they know he will beat Rip Van Winkle,they are protecting Rip Van Winkle who will retire at the end of the season.

lot of paranoia on this thread. the real question could be, why bother to back canford a few days beforehand, when his price is hardly likely to alter when the normal market is formed?

the only way he would come in a lot is if one of his rivals is declared a non-runner. I very rarely back antepost so close to the event now, unless it's to throw a few pennies on an outsider [:D]

Yeah that's what i mentioned in my first reply with regards to RVW. Plus the very fact that the Breeders Cup mile for CC was even mentioned as a distant possibility for CC shows exactly whos pulling the strings. Hannon wouldn't go near the mile with CC if it was his call, in fact it's that remote the words Canford Cliffs and Breeders cup mile wouldn't be mentioned in a million light years.

lol Ribotman.

CC's only opponent was Makfi so the books had the price about right. Im not really sure what RVW has to do with hit given he had a hard race in the International and took a comfortable beating from CC at G'Wood.

Sint - you don't think RVW can run Makfi close ?

He could Graeme, but I was in the CC camp beforehand and therfore thought RVW was out of it based on the goodwood run. It's a different race now.

I was picking up on Tavaris's comment about the prices.

''The reason Canford Cliffs was weak, imo of course, was that 11/10 or 5/4 or whatever he was early when the market was formed, was an absolutely shocking price against Makfi and Rip Van Winkle. It was drifting to a proper price that more reflected his chance of winning.''

You said you don't know what RVW has to do with CC being withdrawn, even though they own both horses and you also just stated RVW can run Makfi close.

I said I dont know what RVW has to do with the prices ... because to my mind he was not a realistic winner of the race.

If he can run Makfi close which you admit then it wouldn't make him an unlikely winner on a line through CC. For what it's worth i had him and CC as a lay yesterday, as RVW might just say enough is enough. Dropping him back in trip doesn't make much sense to me, unless they knew CC wasn't running. [;)]

They knew CC wouldn't run,they need Rip Van Winkle to win a GR1 now as he is going off to stud later on,I see the race very much set up for Rip you can be sure Air Chief Marshal will set a fast pace when he fizzles out Beethoven will take over with Rip Van Winkle going with him,the pace is sure to be fast they will do all they can to take the sting out of Makfi,Rip Van Winkle really needs further than a mile now but coming off a very fast pace the trip is sure to be just right.
The tactics connections have employed to set this race up very much for Rip Van Winkle I hope Makfi wins,and convincingly.

Can anyone explain to me how it is allowed for owners connected to Ballydoyle to be allowed to have shares in bookmakers when multiple million pounds are lost on late withdrawals like this and St Nick the Derby? Surely there has to be a conflict of interests there even if nothing is untoward in these cases. Beggars belief.

hasn't rip already won a group one?

He said they need him to win one now

Yes m'prince he has,but with your comment you obviously don't understand how the thing works do you.

are you both a couple of paranoid idiots?

We're commissioners of truth, whereas you're one of the many of the brown nose brigade. Nothing to see here, nobody ever lies or pulls a fast one in racing.

i beg to differ. from your wild and spectulative posts on here I have you down as a complete numpty. I have no vested interest in ballydoyle at all. I don't particularly like them either. but your posts give me the impression of someone with a chronically low i.q.

hth.

I've read Hannon's site a lot and he's never before mentioned a horse will run as long as it scopes alright.

that sentence makes no sense for starters

grow a brain, graeme.

mythical prince     23 Sep 10 18:08 
I have no vested interest in ballydoyle at all.

m'prince,can't say the same as you on that one,but I am saying if you can't understand the thing then give up and go back to blind betting,fyi nothing speculative just the plain facts.

Certainly an extraordinary turn of events. Hannon even tipped us off a few days ago that CC was going to scoped - I expect that announcement from the stable before every big race from now on. And what about the owners of Dick Turpin and Paco Boy? Group 1 milers who've had to make way all season so the mighty Canford can enhance his reputation. Wonder if any money has changed hands?

Really hope Makfi wins this as the whole thing stinks.

Graeme83 Joined: 21 Sep 07
Replies: 5625 23 Sep 10 12:16   


It's not a conspiracy theory, gambling is a dirty game (well if you don't like it why don't you fuuck off and do something else?) and a lot of the time the bookmakers find out before the punters. (really, you don't say.) I also think there's nothing wrong with Canford Cliffs (note the emphasis on think, rather than proof) and it's no coincedence this happens after Ballydoyle strike a deal to buy him. I've read Hannon's site a lot and he's never before mentioned a horse will run as long as it scopes alright. (why the fuuck should he? the horse scoped badly, not alright.) I actually said yesterday evening that CC was a lay (horrible aftertiming here) so i've no agenda apart from thinking (apart from being an utter ****]) that something is out of place and that people who backed CC have been mugged.

With the prize money offer this could have serious repercussions for the championship.
Hannon could have had it game set and match if CC won. Now if RVW wins he will be looking over his soldier.
I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned below.

i beg to differ. from your wild and spectulative posts on here I have you down as a complete numpty. I have no vested interest in ballydoyle at all. I don't particularly like them either. but your posts give me the impression of someone with a chronically low i.q.


You forgot to use a capital letter after your first full stop. You also failed to use one after your second sentence.  You have also spelled speculative incorrectly. Your teacher should also have pointed out to you that a sentence should never begin with the word 'but', but if you have to then at least use a capital 'B'. What were you saying about my low i.q ?

Now mythical princess has resorted to abusive language and lame insults to prove how more intelligent he is.

It does not take Sherlock Holmes to know the Hannon's filed their boots on Makfi whilst lying about the well being of their horse.

DISGUSTING

[:)] this ones got legs.......

Graeme, have you actually got any firm evidence to back your wild theories up with, which are bordering on libellous...

I'm fully aware of how to spell properly Graeme but it takes too much effort so I don't usually bother. Forgive me for my laziness. However in future just to please you i'll try to behave. By the way i've had two books published, how about you, you fruit?

The only thing Hannon is guilty of is being controlled like a puppet.

Another big pay day for ante post layers. Not that I have any bets on the race either way.

If you are going to try and take the intellectual high ground and criticise my i.q level, then you should at least make the effort to string coherent sentences together. Congratulations on having two books published. I'm sure spell checker wasn't used and nobody checked it for you before it hit the shelf.

The only thing Hannon is guilty of is being controlled like a puppet.

Prima D what do you think about Paco Boy and Dick Turpin? Group 1 milers they've been kept away from the big British races all season so as not to oppose Canford. And now they've missed out on the most prestigious all age mile race and Canford isn't even running! If I owned one of these horses I'd be seething.

I'm not really criticising your I.Q. I just don't think you have one. Why rant on about something you know absolutely nothing about. All you actually know about the situation you've read in the racing media from your scummy bedist in between waiting for your giro to come in.

So would I A_T the whole thing stinks,if they were mine then maybe I'd send them to another trainer,but reckon they may come out on top financially [;)]

"I'm not really criticising your I.Q. I just don't think you have one"


You don't have to be intelligent to have an i.q, as an i.q is actually the result of a test. You should have know this as you're so much more clever than me, what with all your insults and claims of book publication. I'd also like to point out than Jordan has had more books published than you.


"your scummy bedist in between waiting for your giro to come in."



Ouch you cutting wit has sliced me in two. I don't think i'll ever recover.

m'prince I think I have one of you books here,you must of written 'I can't see further than the end of my nose'that must be yours!

have just closed my coral account. had 300 on cc last nite. i think its short sighted of the big firms not to refund

I don't usually buy in to refunds Tartan, but on this occasion i do as i could sense something wasn't right. Obviously it's not easy to prove, but i think they knew something was a miss. They shortened Makfi because there was no support for Canford Cliffs, even though there was not much support for Makfi. Both prices should have stayed put.

my main beef is the high profile of the horse concerned. no antepost inflated price was on offer. its my first time on the forum and i wasnt aware of the ballydoyle involvment

Actually I must hold up my hands and apologise for some of the things I said earlier grae. I now realise you are quite clearly a genius, and the obvious plan of getting canford to win the qe2 beat his main rival makfi, prove himself champion miler and therefore expotentially increase his stud value was a faulty one,

and in actual fact the ante-post market on the qe2 was a devious plan all along, with the sole purpose of taking prima donna kebab and graeme69's 2 quid ante post bets on canford cliffs.

I now have to bow to your's and prima donna kebab's much greater insight.

m,prince, 2 quid bets.....don't make me laugh fyi I almost never bet and another thing I have no doubt I could buy and sell you 1000 times over,always remember you have no idea who you are talking to on this forum.

"with the sole purpose of taking prima donna kebab and graeme69's 2 quid ante post bets on canford cliffs."



I've stated on numerous occasions, including twice on this very thread that i haven't backed Canford Cliffs. Playing the role of an intellectual bully doesn't suit you. Try and stick to horses. I've nothing more to add on this matter.

The Hannon stable has destroyed the mile division as a competitive spectacle this season. Dick Turpin's Jean Prat was as good as anything we've seen over 8f yet he's not even lined up in the major all age races - apparently so Canford Cliffs and to a lesser extent Paco Boy could enhance their profiles.

Actually i've now worked out what the "83" stands for.

Have you seen the film "alien 3" graeme

P.s. that's good to know prima. Have the kebab shops done well?

A_T - i think Dick Turpin could have been handled better. If i owned that horse i'd be taking it elsewhere. He deserves better entries, including the QEII.

m,prince you sir are sounding like a fool of the first order!

Prima Donna Joined: 29 Apr 09
Replies: 2395 23 Sep 10 20:24   


m,prince, 2 quid bets.....don't make me laugh fyi I almost never bet

why does that not surprise me [:p]

Graeme DT was in the QEII until Monday. Hannon himself said that he would be talking to the owner before the forfeit stage. Make of that what you will!

m prince take your personal problems elsewhere. this is a forum and everyone is entitled to an opinion without being blasted as starting conspiracies and having "no iq" whatever that means. let this get back on topic.

It's a shame Canfords out because it looked a hell of a race with him in it. I thought Makfi and Hearts of Fire had great chances of beating him and you can never write the Rip off.

FWIW it would not surprise me if there is nothing wrong with him.

Wonder if Coolmore will send Hannon any 2 year olds next year?

You may have a point there A_T............I wonder if the bookie will?

masterminded, I don't see how people have the freedom to cast aspersions around about other's professional integrity without expecting a little something back. Anyway this is the last i'll have to say on the matter.

Ah those unlikely bedfellows "horse racing" and "professional integrity"...

It's a pity really as Rip at his best would shake any horse up. What will the ground be like because if it's fast I think Rip could build a nice Rythm from the front and Makfi could end up out of his ground. If it is soft I'll probably back Poets Voice each way as now that he has learned to settle he could really be anything. Interesting that they run him instead of Delegator. Is he rated the better horse by the stable or is just the way their respective programmes worked out?

A_T Joined: 27 Jan 06
Replies: 1046 23 Sep 10 18:47   
The only thing Hannon is guilty of is being controlled like a puppet.

Prima D what do you think about Paco Boy and Dick Turpin? Group 1 milers they've been kept away from the big British races all season so as not to oppose Canford. And now they've missed out on the most prestigious all age mile race and Canford isn't even running! If I owned one of these horses I'd be seething. 

Canford cliffs has faced Dick Turpin on three occasions(once over 7) twice over the mile.

Yea and DT has won twice. Seems this wasn't what was wanted so Canford was put in all the top mile races and DT sent on a wild goose chase to the York International and hasn't been seen since.

but my point was you stated DT had been kept away from CC,anyway dont want to argue over it,just feel people do like a dick francis story (at times on here)

Good luck

Canford would have cruised that ... Well below par Makfi with a bunch finish in front.

The competition of another Sheikh Mo trainer seems to have brought Bin Suroor out of his years of slumber.  No coincidence IMO.

Disappointing result that. RVW went too fast - his guts kept him in it but Poet's Voice stayed on best.

PV improving too imo.