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"The trip was also a crucial factor in Rip Van Winkle’s fantastic triumph in the Juddmonte International. It took him a long time to get it together, and he needed all of the one mile, two furlongs and 100 yards to get there, but get there he did.
It was nice to see him back on form. Aidan and the team at Ballydoyle have done a superb job with him this season, and I’d expect him to improve again now.
I was especially pleased to hear that they hadn’t ruled out running Rip in the Irish Champion Stakes at Leopardstown in two weeks. That Group One is also a possible target for Fame And Glory, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t take each other on.
Judging by this week’s win, dropping back to a mile for the QE II doesn’t look an option for Rip, and the Irish Champion is an ideal prep for Fame And Glory’s later engagement in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe in Paris. Obviously one of them would have to get beaten at Leopardstown, but the race carries such prestige that it would be invaluable to either of their pedigrees if one of them were to win it.
With Rip hitting top gear now, Aidan will be anxious to choose the right targets. The Breeders’ Cup Classic has also been mentioned, but that is back at Kentucky this year.
The track at Churchill Downs is a proper dirt track that doesn’t suit well-bred turf horses by sires like Galileo, so Rip may not act on it. I was just beaten in the race there on Giant’s Causeway 10 years ago, but he was bred for it.
When you take all that into account, it would make sense for Rip Van Winkle and Fame And Glory to face off at Leopardstown. Here’s hoping they do."
What do you think of that?
It was nice to see him back on form. Aidan and the team at Ballydoyle have done a superb job with him this season, and I’d expect him to improve again now.
I was especially pleased to hear that they hadn’t ruled out running Rip in the Irish Champion Stakes at Leopardstown in two weeks. That Group One is also a possible target for Fame And Glory, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t take each other on.
Judging by this week’s win, dropping back to a mile for the QE II doesn’t look an option for Rip, and the Irish Champion is an ideal prep for Fame And Glory’s later engagement in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe in Paris. Obviously one of them would have to get beaten at Leopardstown, but the race carries such prestige that it would be invaluable to either of their pedigrees if one of them were to win it.
With Rip hitting top gear now, Aidan will be anxious to choose the right targets. The Breeders’ Cup Classic has also been mentioned, but that is back at Kentucky this year.
The track at Churchill Downs is a proper dirt track that doesn’t suit well-bred turf horses by sires like Galileo, so Rip may not act on it. I was just beaten in the race there on Giant’s Causeway 10 years ago, but he was bred for it.
When you take all that into account, it would make sense for Rip Van Winkle and Fame And Glory to face off at Leopardstown. Here’s hoping they do."
What do you think of that?
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It's not gonna happen. Leave them both in and if the race cuts up let Fame and Glory get a 10f Group 1. If there are Group 1 horses opposing they know Fame won't win so run Rip instead
Would there be any point in not sending him to either the Arc or BCC seeing as they kept him in training. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of breeding value, but would they keep a horse like RVW in training to send him to Newmarket at the end of the season ?
they will send him to the BC, just what race is the only doubt.
Kinane was world class jockey and, surprisingly, he also turns ou to be a top flight racing journo. Spot on about Rip.
I could see Rip running in Newmarket's Champion stakes followed by the Breeders Cup, I think he could win the Arc if given the oppertiunity, They will never let him take on F&G.
You don't know that neill.
Mastercraftsman ran to his merits in the Champion Stakes last year.
Mastercraftsman ran to his merits in the Champion Stakes last year.
Yes but I thought they were just throwing everything they could at you know who, You're right though, I don't know. There is also St Nick to throw into the equation.
Rip left in. He needs to run in this race against Fame and Glory.
Forget Cape Blanco and send him to the Leger. The classic 3yr old middle distances are poor bunch don't waste a A class pedigree boost on a stallion that will struggle
Forget Cape Blanco and send him to the Leger. The classic 3yr old middle distances are poor bunch don't waste a A class pedigree boost on a stallion that will struggle
O'Brien answers questions as if what he is saying is all one great big mystery. It's very obvious to even me that Cape Blanco and F&G will go to this irish race. He will then send F&G to the Arc and RVW to America and 'they fell that (enter ZZzz here'). I'm glad their bubble has been burst this season, and i hope it's the start of a trend. It was also good to see Starspangledbanner getting beat. 
No no no Graeme.
Send Rip to ICS....even money Rip and say 13/8 f+g. Oh what a race that would be.
Come on Mr Magnier for the good of irish Racing pit your 2 best against each other please!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Send Rip to ICS....even money Rip and say 13/8 f+g. Oh what a race that would be.
Come on Mr Magnier for the good of irish Racing pit your 2 best against each other please!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Mick Kinane has been spot on regarding his views the past few weeks.
Said SSB would be beat
Said Pathfork would win
Said Harbinger would win King George
This guy is shrewd[;)] Tipping line maybe?
Said SSB would be beat
Said Pathfork would win
Said Harbinger would win King George
This guy is shrewd[;)] Tipping line maybe?
Mick Kinane has been spot on regarding his views the past few weeks.
Said SSB would be beat
Said Pathfork would win
Said Harbinger would win King George
This guy is shrewd Tipping line maybe?
Mick Kinane is also a breeder, bred Derby winner AUTHORISED from memory :)
Said SSB would be beat
Said Pathfork would win
Said Harbinger would win King George
This guy is shrewd Tipping line maybe?
Mick Kinane is also a breeder, bred Derby winner AUTHORISED from memory :)
Who does JM ride is Rip vs Fame?
Gotta be Rip over 10f, i think....? Leave Fame spot on for the Arc.
Gotta be Rip over 10f, i think....? Leave Fame spot on for the Arc.
I would think Rip and Cape Blanco for the ICS - Fame the Prix Foy then Arc.
Whatever happens they will be making sure these two avoid each other. Therefore it's just another over hype Irish race that might not even be worth watching.
same way mastercraftsman and fame and glory avoided each other last year
Yeah the same way they faced STS last year as they had 5 out of the 9 runners because they were so desparate to bring him down...and they still got gubbed [:)]
Whats that got to do with anything. Your point is has nothing to do with the issue that Ballydoyle run their best horses against each other when the race permits. I can't understand what your snipe at the only stable that could muster a suitable challenger. You must have forgot the 4 runner farce at york where Stoute and Cecil refused to run their horses against Sea The Stars.
Simply because they didn't run their horses against each other. They ran them against Sea the Stars. there is a difference.
But Graeme
Arc Dylan Thomas vs Soldier of Fortune
ICS Dylan Thomas vs Duke of Marmalde
St James Palace Duke vs Excellent Art
They are a few that come to mind however i will admit the fact that they were chasing some favorites in these respective races. This race next weekend should have these 2 horses running in it because for the simple fact it will increase their value at stud. Their is no point RVW geting beat in the QU2 and F+G running away with a very poor field in the ICS. I know you don't care for stud value's etc and fair enough many don't but. But this is a exemption to the norm. Because if Rip Van Winkle does not show up then its just the same as the Tatts Gold Cup. A worthless win..nothing more nothing less
Arc Dylan Thomas vs Soldier of Fortune
ICS Dylan Thomas vs Duke of Marmalde
St James Palace Duke vs Excellent Art
They are a few that come to mind however i will admit the fact that they were chasing some favorites in these respective races. This race next weekend should have these 2 horses running in it because for the simple fact it will increase their value at stud. Their is no point RVW geting beat in the QU2 and F+G running away with a very poor field in the ICS. I know you don't care for stud value's etc and fair enough many don't but. But this is a exemption to the norm. Because if Rip Van Winkle does not show up then its just the same as the Tatts Gold Cup. A worthless win..nothing more nothing less
Two Stoute horses were both favs for the KG and they both ran, same as previous year he has the favs. Hannon has run DT against CC this season and Abdullah ran Byword and Twice Over before the Champ Stakes. It would have been good to see RVW take on F&G but as we are well aware it's not going to happen because they don't have anything ahead of the pair of them. I don't even know why i'm ranting on because i won't even be watching the race anyway.
We wait and see Graeme....all will be revealed as they say[;)]
The ICS is one of the top five races on the European Calendar and has been acknowledged as such for 2 decades or so now, miles ahead of the King George at any rate.
AOB has already said he'll definitly run two out of F&G, Rip and Cape Blanco. Running all 3 would be plain stupidity and for all their faults I don't think the Coolmore operation could ever be accused of that.
AOB has already said he'll definitly run two out of F&G, Rip and Cape Blanco. Running all 3 would be plain stupidity and for all their faults I don't think the Coolmore operation could ever be accused of that.
Duke was a different horse when he faced DT to the one he was at 4, They didn't know thay would get him to the level he reached at 4, He had pins in his legs v DT and they might have been padding out the field as I think Finsceal Beo was the only other Gr 1 horse in the field if memory serves me correctly. I don't think they held MC in the same esteem as Rip and F&G, he is rather plain looking and a bit of a mudlark, Ascot win v Delegator aside, I think this will be reflected in the stud fees, MC is around 20k the other two will be more than that.
Mr Mischief Joined: 01 Nov 09
Replies: 33 27 Aug 10 16:00
The ICS is one of the top five races on the European Calendar and has been acknowledged as such for 2 decades or so now, miles ahead of the King George at any rate.
That's one of the daftest things I've seen on here.
A_T you obviously don't know much about the last 10 winner of ICS
2000 Giant's Causeway
2001 Fantastic Light
2002 Grandera
2003 High Chaparral
2004 Azamour
2005 Oratorio
2006 Dylan Thomas
2007 Dylan Thomas
2008 New Approach
2009 Sea the Stars
No race in Europe has such a record of Top Class Animals not even the Arc. Its The new "Breeders Race" so to speak
2000 Giant's Causeway
2001 Fantastic Light
2002 Grandera
2003 High Chaparral
2004 Azamour
2005 Oratorio
2006 Dylan Thomas
2007 Dylan Thomas
2008 New Approach
2009 Sea the Stars
No race in Europe has such a record of Top Class Animals not even the Arc. Its The new "Breeders Race" so to speak
Its by far the most important race in the Irish Calender. The Irish Derby has turned into a poor race over the past few years. Irish Champion Stakes is the only All Aged Top Class race we got. Only race that excites me in the Irish Flat Calender and that a damning of the way irish flat racing is going
Throwing up a list of winners proves nothing. Who have they beat ?....i'd rather watch the KG any day of the week over any irish race.
Anyone who really thinks the KG is a more serious race than the ICS is clearly daft. Check out the evidence gentlemen, Dylan Thomas only beat Ouija Board, Oratorio only beat Motivator confirming the Eclipse form of that year. The list is endless.
Maybe fans over here prefer British racing and the Irish prefer their races. Anytime i see an irish race i'm left feeling dissapointed and it looks and feels like it's only for irish people, especially O'Brien. To me it doesn't have a sense of occasion. That's me though.
The English have lots of runners this weekend. Be interesting to way up the 2yr old form with Memory.
I think the honeymoon 2yr old period is over for them. Strong Suit and Libranno firmly put in their place the past 2 Group 1's. Will it be 3rd time lucky for Memory?
I think the honeymoon 2yr old period is over for them. Strong Suit and Libranno firmly put in their place the past 2 Group 1's. Will it be 3rd time lucky for Memory?
You come out with some crap Graeme.
Last year Sea the Stars earned £550k in Leopardstown vs an all Irish field.
He earned £340k in York also against an all Irish field.
What f'king difference does it make what country the race is run in if it's a decent field?
Neither time did any of the big (or small) British stables challenge him, had Ballydoyle not done so would he considered the horse he is now?
Last year Sea the Stars earned £550k in Leopardstown vs an all Irish field.
He earned £340k in York also against an all Irish field.
What f'king difference does it make what country the race is run in if it's a decent field?
Neither time did any of the big (or small) British stables challenge him, had Ballydoyle not done so would he considered the horse he is now?
The King George is much more prestigious than the ICS - it's not even close. The Irish race has an impressive list of winners but it's essentially a warm-up for the Arc rather than a target in itself. The top all-age race in Europe is the Arc followed by the King george - after that it's not clear.
Mein Fuhrer(Tavaris Jackson), i veel ask for your seal of approval zee next i contemplate voicing my opinion. I've saw a couple of them before and while last years was good viewing, the year before hand New Approach beat Traffic Guard and Mores Wells, and this year i don't care which of O'briens horses wins as i can't be bothered caring. There is very little build up or sense of occasion for me. Therefore i will pass.
Always been a decent race, remember Dr Devious and St Jovite having a tussle there, here's a old un, i remember Princess Pati well as i saw her win live on Irish Derby Day when El Gran Senor won the Derby there and backed her when she beat Circus Plume
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9EN9f8t9HE&p=9F90B577A76D3B8E&playnext=1&index=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9EN9f8t9HE&p=9F90B577A76D3B8E&playnext=1&index=18
Just pure ballydoyle hatred...no surprise though Travis. It comes through every year when something goes wrong. Their dammed if they do their dammed if they don't in certain quarters.
A_T i would not disagree with your sentiment in fact i completely agree. Arc/King George and the prob the Irish Champion Stakes.
Rip van Winkle no bigger than 5/2 on Betfair....my few quid at 5.00 is lucky good no lads. Forget that Cape Blanco beating these 3yr olds are no good. Anyone hear any news on Workforce from Stoute....must be the New St Nicholas Abbey. Gone AWOL
A_T i would not disagree with your sentiment in fact i completely agree. Arc/King George and the prob the Irish Champion Stakes.
Rip van Winkle no bigger than 5/2 on Betfair....my few quid at 5.00 is lucky good no lads. Forget that Cape Blanco beating these 3yr olds are no good. Anyone hear any news on Workforce from Stoute....must be the New St Nicholas Abbey. Gone AWOL
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