imperial commander

He'll be ten, he only beat Denman in the Gold Cup who was beaten 3 times this year, so question marks over what he beat. Also he has never beaten Kauto Star when completing. I wouldn;t be fooled by the ratings of those 3 horses, they're all rated too high for me.

I think there'll be a new winner and the beginning of a new generation of Staying Chasers, I think it'll be Joncol myself.

doubt Joncol will ever run at Cheltenham let alone win a gold cup

he won well last year loves the course great trainer and jockey geared up for that race i think he will take the beating again

Came out of his field today and had his shoes put on, will go for a walk on the road tomorrow - looks an absolute picture.

joncol only runs on heavy ground as the owner and trainers are scared that its such a big horse that it'll die if falling on anything but heavy.

Teddy i hope ur availing of those generous prices... TL came back in last week, looks great and raring to go.... [;)]initial signs very good

Swinia  [;)] whats the early target Hennessey? do you own it?

he has a great chance connaz but i wouldnt bet him in any other races before the gold cup he will be trained to the minute and has a favs chance imo last year was no fluke imo.

I agree with CVB, it will take a mighty effort for IC to retain his crown.

On the plus side he adores cheltenham and has not many miles on the clock, i think backing him on the day would be a decent idea.

Not classy enough to win a King George or a big handicap carrying weight but will be aimed purely at the Gold Cup so has a chance to repeat.

Certainly won't be running a Gold Cup winner in a handicap - why would we possibly want to ? !! He remains underated even having won a Gold Cup, and I think we can find some more improvement yet. As ever you need a bit of luck, but he has summered better than ever and looks a picture. The Lay Preacher is not far off the mark, he will be trained for one race - because there is only one Gold Cup. All being well he will take in the Betfair Chase and the King George on route. We learned a lot last season and if we can get him to Cheltenham in the same condition he will take a bit of beating. Will probably be stripped a bit fitter for the King George this year and allowed to stay on the pace which is his preference.We learned a lot about managing his physical issues last year, and applying that going forward will make his program easier to determine.  Have not really discussed it with the other owners yet so the Lexus could be in the frame, but why risk bottomless ground in Ireland and two ferry trips when last years plan didn't work out too badly. can he break the 10-y-o stat, who knows - but he hasn't got many miles on the clock - and he does love Cheltenham.

Bobby your one hell of a lucky guy to be part of such a wonderful horse. Clearly you (nor i) underrate him however at this early stage, which horse do you most fear ?

Shame Mikael D'Haguenet is having a luckless time he is a real superstar in the making but can Mullins get him to a Gold Cup in the future and will he even go there as Ruby will always have a ride for Nicholls in the race. Kauto should be over the hill next year, the extra stamina needed for the Gold Cup has never been ideal for him or the undulating track. IC 11/2 you wouldn't get a sniff of a price like that for Best Mate in his heyday very open race next season could be a handicapper winning it.

Bobby: Many congrat's for ICs great GC victory, but what on earth are you thinking in going back to Kempton on Boxing Day, on a track where he is at best "ill at ease". (right handed & all that)
Surely, Leopardstown at Xmas, will play far more to his strengths.

I'll call your bluffif IC is so underated then why not run him in the old mackeson or massey ferguson, as done by long gone champions, especially as he is so good fresh. (he'd start 5-2 at best, with no shame in defeat.

Saying that, if there is a bonus from one of the exchanges, for the Haydock, Kempton, Cheltenham, I don't blame you for chasing the dollar.

GL

Bobby Dazzler - There hasn't been bottomless ground at leopardstown (christmas meeting) since the listener won in 2006.... also  the track drains very well. He would be far more suited to leopardstown then kempton.
Good luck with your success.

Swania - don't really fear any horse, but that has always been the case. We just focus on getting him there on the day in the best condition we can, and have always believed in him. If we get him there in the same condition as last season he will take some beating, and I will be the first to applaund any horse that does. At the end of the day you need a lot of luck to get there on the day in one piece. For that reason we focus on his preparation rather than anything else. If you put me on the spot I think last seasons novices were a moderate bunch, so the challenge is more likley to come from the seasoned campaigners than a new kid on the block. That is why I have always believed that the ante post markets are rank bad value. If you take the top 6 in all of the ante post markets right now then I will guarantee only 5 or 6 will turn up. Factor that 30-40% risk and where does it leave the price. 

Saxon Farm - why would we want to run him in a handicap ? Giving lumps of weight away when not fully tuned up is hardly sensible, and the graded prizes are worth more money. Leopardstown is an option, but there is a risk in that the ground can be a killer and he faces a week away from home with two ferry trips in suspect weather. There is only one Gold Cup - that is still the dream - and nothing else comes close, on that basis Kempton Park is the safe and sensible option. It would be remiss of me not to point out that popular belief was that he wouldn't get 3m 2f, I am not so sure he couldn't spring a surprise going RH. He will certainly be ridden positively this year, and probably stripped a bit fitter going into the race.

Cheers Bobby. People on the forum will know my connection with trafford lad and i look at your faith in IC as an inspiration. Like you i believe Traff will have his day in the sun and would love to think he could have it on the big day in Prestbury. In his novice season he had genuine excuses everytime he was beaten (before the Moriarty he had scoped badly all week, and ground too fast in the Powers Gold Cup). On his day eg the Drinmore, he beat grade 1 winners...

Keep the faith and IC and TL will cross swords[:p]

Good luck Swinia, we all need it - is Trafford Lad close to returning to the track, I know he had some heat in a leg before the 2009 Hennessey, is that the problem that has kept him off the track ?

cheers bobby just read your threads and its filled me with even more confidence

Thanks Bobby for being so open about a Gold Cup winner.

ya he had tendon trouble...wasn't too bad and could have made return back end but it was felt best to leave it to this season....everybody delighted with his recovery lets hope he returns 100%. When i think about Venalmar been out for the season and not making a full recovery

He has bulked up alot, his back end in particular and looks amazing...he came back in last week...fingers crossed

Good luck Swinia, slow and sure when it comes to tendons - he is still a young horse so no rush. There is a half brother to Trafford Lad (By Moscow Society) in the Tattersalls August sale which I was interested in.

Hi Bobby,

I have been looking at the Gold cup market and can see this really cutting up. 

1. Stats are against the 1st 3in the market, kauto/denman (both 11) and your horse IC (10).  10 year olds dont win gold cups nowadays, however i think IC is a lay to bet horse as i dont hink it will run well in the king george (sorry just my opinion) and therefore drift in the market.

2. Then there is Somersby, What a Friend, Big Buck, Joncol, Long Run, Punchestown and cooldine.  What a friend will proberly bypass for Aintree, Big buck will stay hurdling and if not his jumping dodgy, joncol will proberly bypass chelt for punchestown, long run and punchestown dont stay in my opinion and cooldine is just not good enought.

therefore at this moment in time i think your horse is a lay yo bet and somersby is solid bet as if you look at his races so far they are similar to best mates races where he has gradually steped up in distance and is a solid jumper and traveller.  to me he could give you most to think about.

be interesting if Hen knight starts him off at exeter in november....

imperial commander worst winner of a gold cup since nortons coin

beat 180+ rated horses without breakign a sweat, crawl back into your hole

Hi Big Bucks, I would forgive Somersby his Aintree run as he was kicked before the start, got loose and generally had a miserable time. The two questions are whether he would get 3m 2f, and whether he will handle the step up in class, nothing he has posted so far would put him into the frame. The problem as a betting proposition for the Gold Cup is that the trainer is unlikely to sanction anymore that three runs before March, with a strong chance that she decides to take in the Ryanair instead of the Gold Cup this year as he will only be 7. The Arkle is interesting as Somersby was close enough at the top of the hill before making a mistake three out. The formbooks view the race as if he was outpaced down the hill and stayed on up the hill strongly, conclusion he is a stayer who needs further. A lot of my betting strategy is based upon jumping technique, as the impact of hitting the fence can have far less impact than the changes to stride pattern caused by the error, (which impact on the horses airflow and breathing). I suspect it is likely that if Somersby had not made the mistake he would have been able to lay up with the pace, and would have won,(i.e he didn't travel down the hill as he struggled to regain his airflow and breathing pattern, once he did then he was able to stay on up the hill). For that reason I still have question marks over whether he will really get the trip.

Cheers for the reply Bobby, good insight regards to the airflow and breathing.  I took my theory on that his races and training seem parallel with that of Best Mates.  Although i did forget 1 thing and that was the ryanair was not about when best mate was making the step up in trip.

Any word on LRM?  what about Oscars ballad and Highland Flash, are they still going to be sent to Elliot as on RP they are still with J Ross and D Wachman.

Been keeping an eye on them for a while but only seen HF ran in a PTP.

Good luck with all your horses for the year.

We are going to have a real punt at Perth in September with Frontier Dancer in the Novice Chase, and Frontier Spirit / Le Roi Max in the maiden hurdles or bumper. All are back in training and going well.

Oscars Ballad is proving a latent talent, we struggled to keep the condition on him in full training, having solved that problem he then got a cough ! He is stepping up his work now, and whether he goes in another bumper for Kevin Ross or not will be decided on the early ground. Either way he will be with Gordon this autumn.

Highland Flash is a big horse and still growing, scared himself in his first point to point, (put the wind up JD Moore as well), but handled the soft ground well. Had a swelling on a tendon at the back of his knee after the race so was turned out for the summer - looks great but given his size I might leave him with Kevin and give him some more experience in points or hurdles before he heads to Gordons.

Great to hear all going well. Am sure gordon will place them well.

Le Roi Max looked a good horse from his 1st run seem to be races in him, am sure he learnt alot from that run.  Be good to see HF on the course looks beautifully bred.

All the best for the winter and hope your punt pays off in september to fund the winter months ahead!

Good luck Bobby, will look out for them

its just a pleasure to read threads such as these i love jump racing for that reasun cheers guys

ditto...it was great to watch imperial commander last season,good luck for next season[not incl summer jumping!]

i think weird al will win the gold cup this year. would have won the rsa last year if he wasnt injured. my only slight doubt is that they might go the impearal commander route and go for the ryanair first. thoughts please???

very imformative thread lads, well done

Weird Al will get the trip no problem and handles the track. Form line with Knockara Beau suggests he wouldn't have been far away in the RSA but would have needed to improve again to win it. Those form lines look solid rather than spectacular. He is clearly a horse of some quality but not straightforward, he had to have oxygen after his hurdle win at Warwick and has managed only five starts up to the age of 7. Had problems when with Venetia Williams between winning his point and making his debut in a bumper. Cureent trainer thinks he is the best chaser he has trained. IMHO the step up to championship class revolves around two factors, the ability to jump at speed, and the ability to go the pace and a half quicker that the run in the championship races for a long way. Personally I would have doubts in both areas, his jumping technique is solid rather than spectacular,and whilst it has been an asset in novice company he will have to improve it to compete in championship races - he also tends to hit the odd flat spot which is costly in the top grade, (flat spots are usually caused by the inability of the respiratory system to fuel the requirements of the muscular system). He is a big horse, the oxygen at Warwick and the flat spots in his races would concern me, it may not be symptamatic of wind problem, but he needs to be seen in a race at championship pace before you could be sure he will handle any step up in class. Off 152 he could feasibly go for the Paddy Power or **** and would have to go close to winning to be competitive in the GC. Looks a brave bet ante post even at the current odds.

***** = B O Y L E S P O R T S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Racing needs more owners like Bobby D, owners who take the time to communicate and make punters feel involved. Even if they all started tomorrow though, it would be too late. I've been interested in racing for more than 40 years and have worked in several areas of the industry.  Racing is now so fragmented that it cannot survive in its current structure.

Racecourses seem to have lost faith in the REL/BHA/RCA etc., and have decided to take the short term view of grabbing what they can while they can.  They get £16m in media rights payments but those rights cost bookmakers £32m (balance goes to the broadcasters) plus the Levy and all their other costs.  500 betting shops have closed in the past two years, most of them independents.  Racing's levy payment this year is £76m (it was £118m two years ago).  There is simply not enough money to support 60 racecourses and thousands of fixtures.

Sponsors are steadily dropping out, broadcasters pushing racing further into the backwaters, sports editors cutting its page space, bookmakers no longer promoting it (two of their best known PR men, Hood and Wilkins have effectively been made redundant) racing punters of the old school are dying and the new generation want to bet on football and play slots - they find racing baffling and/or boring.

The festivals will live on for a few years but the other courses will gradually close and be built over.  I never believed I'd see it in my lifetime but am now sadly confident that I will.

Make the best of what remains gentlemen. Those charged with running racing are slowly but surely chiseling RIP into its gravestone.

well thats a grim prognosis!!!

back to the gc.... weird al was a hype horse for me last season.. after sitting down and looking at his form before the rsa i was firmly against him even after a few horses dropped out. Horses like Knockara beua and burton port are solid but will never ever be top classes chasers and barring miracels will not win gc`s. Weird al falls into this area...

ive backed diamond harry because his price is too big but i feel somersby could be the one as he gets older... ic last year was really one of my favorite perfomrances in my short career following racing. Hope to see the gc won so convincingly again and again

Grim but true.

Weird Al is a very good jumper of a fence and already has some very good form to his name with the chance of progression very high. Don't think he's been hyped up at all.

Not sure it is either grim or true, but clearly raises once again some critical issues. Warrants a thread of its own, almost certainly.

I don't think Weird Al has been hyped up (possibly more the opposite relative to Punchestowns and Long Run last season). I felt he was a more obvious stayer than either Punchestowns or Long Run last season. But I think the two points that Bobby made are well worth bearing in mind. First, the possible question mark about the horse's soundness and, second,  the issue of how well Weird Al might adapt to jumping and travelling at championship pace in open company.

Weapon's Amnesty, who clearly has been an underestimated horse for the last two seasons, would have interested me had he stayed fit for this season. Winning twice in novice company at the Festival in itself isn't necessarily an indication that a horse could cope well with championship pace in open company. But it becomes more interesting, I think, when wins at the Festival are set against less impressive performances in more slowly run races at other tracks. Before the RSA last season, plenty of observers were noting that there were many horses in contention who would clear a fence much better than Weapon's Amnesty. But not so many perhaps were factoring in how well the horse might cope with jumping at a slightly faster pace and what effect that might have on how well the horse would travel in the RSA relative to the competition. So often horses that appear to take their fences very well in more slowly run, smaller field races prior to the Cheltenham Festival, flatter to deceive in terms of how well their jumping (and by implication their ability to travel well) holds together when there is a bit more pace on.

Fit and well, I think IC will take a lot of beating in the GC again this season. If I was searching for a longer shot with which to oppose him, I think I would be looking more at those who haven't run over three miles before but might be stepped up now having shown they have the speed to cope well with something approaching championship pace over a shorter distance. Sizing Europe has the size to suggest he might stay well enough over further than two miles, though clearly we would need much more evidence than just that to make him a serious GC contender, even if connections indicated a step up in trip was on the cards for the horse.

Albertas Run, of course, has been tried in good company at three miles. But on the speed angle, there is a horse that coped well enough with the pace of major races over shorter distances last season, with the jumping holding together particularly well in the Ryanair, albeit on the better ground that seems (???) particularly important for the horse. Bit like Khyber Kim, something seemed to come right with/for Albertas Run last season that made his much less creditable form in the period since winning the RSA seem anomalous. The GC might not be the target for the horse, but following IC's step up from Ryanair winner to GC champ, Albertas Run would be a particularly interesting addition to the GC field.

Agree totally Steeplechasing - Racing For Change (or The Jockey Club In False Beards to give them a more accurate title) are a joke. They are the very people who created this mess - and are never going to sort it out. Left to them I am convinced I will be out of ownership in the next 10 years and looking for something else to do in my dotage.

Whilst they bicker around the table, each arguing for their own interests the sport is dying a death of a thousand cuts. The bookmakers rip the levy funding apart, the courses invest less and less of their own money in funding the racing element of the sport and the breeding industry are in a state of self denial.

Not content with spending there time spending fortunes with marketing consultants producing Ben and Brian - and planning a Champions Day at Newmarket which they then discovered they couldn't fund - they introduce scarfs to Cheltenham (strangely not so keen on introducing them to Ascot though).


To top it all they spend a small fortune (£500,000 which racing did't have) on promoting a two horse Gold Cup (I believe the FA are to seize on the idea and start promoting a Man Utd V's Chelsea final after the FA Cup third round draw next season) - which despite its extensive budget reduced the TV audience by £200,000.

A disgrace - nothing will accelerate the decline of racing more than the continuance of Racing For Change.

Imperial Commander for me has to have some toe in the grnd. He ran Kauto close earlier in season when the grnd was bottomless. Then the rain saved him and Denman at the gold cup this yr. Ok, its wasn't soft, but the rain certaintly helped IC and Denman more than Kauto. Kauto is still the best horse i have seen in my lifetime. He could well win again in 2011. I think we have just had a golden generation, the old boys will be tough to peg back despite their age. So, depending on ground i think IC is vulnerble in 2011. Weird Al and Joncol...some of you are dreaming. Punchestowns cant jump, Weapons Amnesty doesnt have the timeform. Am struggling to see the up and coming threats. Possibly Neptune, What a Friend or Long Run(may need another yr)

Interesting post Spankthru.

I take an entirely different view on the Kauto Star, Denman, golden age issue. I agree entirely that Kauto Star is an exceptional animal and the best of his generation. The question is what makes him the best of his generation. The hype and vitriol that exists within racing these days has reached ridiculous proportions - to the end that an army of armchair punters defend the top horses in the way they would defend the honour of their football team. This makes them believe that these horses are untouchable and cannot be beaten, and if they are beaten thre is an automatic assumption that this is down to under performance on their behalf and not the standard achieved by the opposition. On this basis form is ignored, or twisted and emotion takes its place - blinkers are applied and suppostion replaces analysis. They are backed by one Phil Smith who I am sure will be rating horses in the 300s before he snaps his pencil. These deep held beliefs are in my humble opinion deeply misguided, and detrimental to any successful betting strategy.

What makes Kauto absolutely exceptional in my humble opinion is his ability to produce championship standard performances more consistently than any other horse. That does not lead to the assumption now wildly held that those championship performances are of a higher standard that those of past champions - or indeed will be superior to those of future champions. Nor can Phil Smith or any of the wise sages justify that proposition based on the horses he has beaten, or any form line. It is simply a myth.

It is precisely why the two horse Gold Cup last season was a fatal mistake, and Kauto as an odds on favourite created huge betting potential.

Your central argument that the rain saved IC is wrong - I can assure you Nelly is at his happiest on good ground, he will handle soft and heavy, but hates drying sticky ground. All top class horses will handle variants int he ground, indeed I think you will find Kautos record is Good - 3 wins from 7 runs, Good to Soft - 6 wins from 9 runs, Soft - 6 wins 7 runs (higher if you include French form).

I would argue that Imperial Commander didn't need saving at all - the form was in the book from Haydock. In addition to this I had four additional pieces of information which were not totally in the public domain - 1. Much to the trainers annoyance he had only had Imperial Commander for eight weeks before the Haydock run, and he had to spend two of those weeks in quarrantine as he was on the same truck as the 2-y-o who had strangles and shut the Stan Moore yard down for a period. Kauto was also ready to run two weeks earlier in Ireland. Hence the argument about how much Kauto would improve for the run should in fact have been reversed. 2. After the King George the previous year he was struggling with the stable bug and we were running out of time to get him to Cheltenham at all, he even missed a racecourse gallop at Newbury because when we got there the ground was to firm. Despite a lack of prime fitness he was able to win the Ryanair and get the 2m 5f, it was therefore a sound proposition that fully fit he would get the trip. 3. Improvements in his treatment and a great training performance produced him in the form of his life going into the Gold Cup. 4. I knew that even if Kauto reproduced the form of his previous Gold Cup wins he could be beaten and Imperial Commander was one of the two horses that could beat him. (My emotional attachment to IC meant I spent more hours studying this race than any other race in the 35 years I have been following racing).

In the 35 years I have followed the Gold Cup the fences have been made smaller, thinner and moved to make them easier to jump. If you hit one fence 30 years ago it was race over. Fortunes have been spent to improve drainage and the surface has improved dramatically. Yet the times don't get any quicker and the handicapper tells me the horses have improved by 2 stone. I don't use either time or ratings as anything other than guide and accept they are not a hard and fast guide, but given the size of the sample it is unthinkable that the improvement in standard would not be reflected.

Here is an unpopular theory (and I will get some stick for it) we are not in a golden age of jump horses, we are in a golden age of hype and punters have never been so vulnerable to it.

Really interesting post Bobby,There are more horses in training today than at most times in the last 20 years. I've no Data to backthis up but aren't there far more horses in training today than there were 20 years ago, Again, The Gold Cup winner is what every NH breeder aims to produce I've no idea of the figures but wouldn't it be fair to say that the best horse out of say for example 5000 horses in training in 2010 would be better than the best of say 2500 in training in 1990, you shouldn't worry about it anyway he's your horse.

On the issue of Kauto Star and his relative greatness, I think it is his versatility in terms of trip which marks him as a great. If he hadn't fell at the first fence in the champion chase he'd have won that year. That day he beat Voy Por in the Tingle Creek sticks in my mind. The year he won his first GC he was unbeaten over a variety of trips, It showed remarkable constitution and consistency as you pointed out. It was Sea the Stars esque.

remove the again, I hate typing

We are not in a golden age of steeplechasing there has never been one although Arkle is by far the greatest chaser ever. However Kauto Star is a truly great chaser up there with Desert Orchid. With 4 King Georges and 2 Gold Cups plus the ability to win top chases over 2 miles what else could he be? Imperial Commander is a Gold Cup winner in the mould of Mr Mulligan or Master Oats - a stayer who had one good year but unlikely to repeat. IC's rating for that Cold Cup win was far too high - Denman was nowhere near his best form.

Hi neill d - I don't think the number of horses in training explains why this group of supposed equine superstars struggle to demonstrate their prowess against the clock given that the fences are easier and the ground conditions have never been better. Every race is different and going is never an exact science, but over an extended sample there should be a demonstrable difference and there isnt. Remember until 2004 they carried 4lbs more than they do now.

Nor can Phil Smith explain exactly how he gets to the ratings he does.

I agree that verstility and consistency are the hallmarks of Kautos superiority, but that does not point to the fact that his championship performances are superior to champions past, present or future. He may well have won the Champion Chase if he had stood up - but as jumping is the name of the game then there can be no excuses (it was an awful Qm !) - the fact is that the benchmark for winning a Gold Cup is remarkably consistent over the past 25 years, and Kautos two wins are within that sphere, not in the stratosphere.

bobby dazzler you are a legend

I saod after the King George that there had been a overreaction , imho Nacarat was the second best horse in the race and his rider had got the fractions wrong.
He actually reached the last on the far side quicker than he did on rp trophy day and that was on quicker ground than the KG, now that performance led to handicappers getting a bit carried away(none of the next three won again that season)

i would agree with a lot of what Bobby says regarding this matter

Best freds on betfair.

easily, Booby D, i can honestly say you are 1 of the most honest characters i have met in racing.  no bu!!sh1t, keeps general racing public informed (well betfair anyway) and answer any question put to him by any1, whether it be matt chapman or joe bloggs.

BTW Bobby i have been waiting for a gamble on valerius from Gordons stable and see he is in the plate. Be interesting should the monet come.

hi bobby not fishing i was wondering how highly everyone thought of that lovely kyber kim  greatest respects to you mate

Big Bucks - Valerius has a bit in hand but must have good or preferably fast going, otherwise he spits the dummy out literally. Ground currently soft - heavy in places at Galway so it looks a non starter. He is ideally also best over 3m 2f.

Connazz2 - Going into Cheltenham all at Naunton thought Khyber Kim would win, however Binocular looks like he might be here to stay on that performance. The new kid on the block Peddlers Cross is also no slouch - so last year may have been his best shot.

mmmm possibly bobby what a lovely animal she is tho

I think KK just needed the ground to be a bit softer that day.

Bobby, me and my brother sponsored a race at newbury recently for my mothers 60th. I had the great pleasure of meeting NTD and in the end my mother had to present the trophy to the winning connections (NTD), i could not had wished for a better turn out as when we saw the 5 day entries we were already all NTD horse.

Fair point Bobby thet stats don't bear out a golden era in that case, Quantity not always meaning quality and all that. I had just got interested in racing in the mid noughties but at this time horses like Truckers Tavern, Take the Stand and good old Hedgehunter, no disrespect to any of these, were being placed in Gold Cups and when two consistently excellent chasers like Kauto and Denman with a backing cast of the likes of Neptune Collonges, Albertas Run and Exotic Dancer come along just after thibgs ane in hindsight bound to be overrated given the poor overall quality previously. I for one have positively enjoyed this period in Jump racing and will certainly look back on it fondly, golden or not. The best of luck with the new champ anyway.

Thanks to Bobby Dazzler for the inside info because one thing's for certain punters get no help whatsoever from the stable.

jan_vermeer Joined: 23 May 10
Replies: 1036 21 Jul 10 23:25   
imperial commander worst winner of a gold cup since nortons coin 

This is why drugs should never be legal...comments like that!!!

He is a qualty animal with vet few miles on the clock i think we might see him twice before the GC  Aintree being one not sure where else  but will wait till after crimbo,but i bet him this year for a good few £££££'s so owes me nothing.

IC may be 10 in next years GC but he hasnt many miles on the clock. Just 9 completed chase starts to date. Age is only part of the reason the stat exists.

will be hard to beat again i think