Horse Antepost
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01 Jun 10
08:59
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04 Feb 07
.. is the term to be used when referring to a big mouth Ballydoyle horse who isnt what they say he is but would be a lovely type for breeding if he was. As in geese dressed as swans.
From now I propose we refer to any hype horse from Ballydoyle as a 'St Nick' whenever the smell of bullsh1t emanates from a certain stable.
From now I propose we refer to any hype horse from Ballydoyle as a 'St Nick' whenever the smell of bullsh1t emanates from a certain stable.
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Does this include Steinbeck?
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Kirk,I'll second what Tavaris Jackson say's!
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Well he did make his target the Irish 2000 and ran very well, if he doesnt turn up the St James Palace he will be one imo.
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So it is agreed, we look forward to many breeding inspired wafts of bullsh1t from the stable in future ... St Nick's galore.
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You are right Kirk,remember they are business people NOT sportsman,always worth thinking about that when listening to what they say!
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Well blow me, I've been training for the local half marathon all year and sprint finishes the lot beating the locals, low and behold woke up stiff this morning would you believe it after all the amazing homework I've done I am declaring myself out. Would you believe it nobody is going to see how good I have been now.
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Definition: noun;
St Nick A horse who is hyped for breeding purposes to be the next Pegasus based on homework where there is a high probability he is moderate and may not make his definite target once balls on the line time arrives. |
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Kirk,if he is finished and its all over he will only have minimal appeal as a stallion,they would do better to send him to AUS/NZ Montjeu has done well there he would have more appeal to them.
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We also have after-timing which I propose will be known as a 'St Nick splashback'
"Obviously this will preclude him from running in the Investec Derby on Saturday. We always thought St Nicholas Abbey could walk on water and it is very unfortunate for all concerned to have a setback like this so close to the big race." |
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Definition of 'St. Nick'
Champion 2 year old who blows punters away in his final race, hyped all Winter by punters who disappoints on his return(not helped by a crap ride from his jockey) and then injuries himself just days before the Derby meaning he has to pull out. |
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Sorry but we cant allow the definition to include the reason connections (the source of the original bullsh1t) give for him being out.
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Definition: noun;
St Nick A horse who is hyped for breeding purposes to be the next Pegasus based on homework where there is a high probability he is moderate and may not make his definite target once balls on the line time arrives. |
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Definition: noun;
St Nick splashback As in a 'St Nick' but in addition extolling the horses virtues even further for breeding purposes after prior declarations of greatness were not proven, as in 'could walk on water' |
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Injury date - 1st June
Stiffness - evening 31st May punters knowing he'd be out due to prices - evening of 3oth & morning of the 31st So there you have it. We knew due to prices of the injury before they did. Isn't it amazing ? they said it was stiff in the evening, yet we all saw the prices in the morning. Technology these day, i tell ya. |
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Has this ever happened before??
Surely not!! Not every year for the last 50 at least |
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Graeme83 you reminded me-
Definition: Noun; Ballydoyle b**** A punter who believes everything he is told by connections relating to the claimed brilliance of a horse in the stable which has not yet supported such claims on the course, the only place the claims can be proven. |
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Not to sound like a stuck record Kirk but a case in point being STEINBECK.
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Prima Donna - Definitely Steinbeck and definitely St Nicholas Abbey who failed to live up to your expectations.
All this just reminds me of Pescatorio - the biggest joke from Ballydoyle in the last 5 years. |
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St Nick:
A horse who displays scintillating performance at the age of two, but who subsequently fails to progress. Yet, to preserve the horse's stud value, the trainer and connections continue to hype the horse at the age of three and beyond. To make the claims credible, however, this often entails feigning injuries of the said horse, thereby ruling him out of classic races; meanwhile, lacklustre performance is often explained away by claiming, for example, that the distance didn't suit. In many cases, the horse is retired early in the second season. |
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Shark12 01 Jun 10 09:54
Prima Donna - Definitely Steinbeck and definitely St Nicholas Abbey who failed to live up to your expectations. Yes your right,he did look good last term,and he has shown a good deal at home I thought he looked moderate in the GNS,and as ben10 said a time ago he may not train on,looks like he was right,BUT I am the first to hold my hands up that I have got him so wrong.Mind you don't alter my view with S'beck. |
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Excellent summary Keynes1. Just a couple of amendments:
"St Nick: A horse who displays a decent performance at the age of two, but who subsequently fails to progress. Yet, to preserve the horse's stud value, the trainer and connections continue to hype the horse at the age of three and beyond. To make the claims credible, however, this often entails feigning injuries of the said horse, thereby ruling him out of classic races; meanwhile, lacklustre performance is often explained away by claiming, for example, that the distance didn't suit or the pace was not fast enough. In many cases, the horse is retired early in the second season just after receiving an entry in the July Cup. |
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'slight setback' and 'stiffness' may be common terms used to indicate the definite target is not now on the agenda
'To make the claims credible, however, this often entails feigning injuries of the said horse, thereby ruling him out of classic races; ' |
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Thanks Shark, good points
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PD fair play to you - unfortunately they cant all be superstars like STS.
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This is hardly ground breaking stuff.
The earliest similar incident I can remember is Lomond suddenly being drafted in to win the 1983 Guineas (was it Danzatore who was fav throughout the winter ? Not sure). It has happened many times before and will happen again, the lack of timely info from Coolmore is regrettable but hardly restricted to them. |
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"is regrettable but hardly restricted to them."
What is disgraceful is that despite the drift on here they did not release a press notice until everyone including the stable cat had managed to lay the sh1t out of him. But I agree it is not just confined to Ballydoyle. Bolger is another who thinks this is best practice. |
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The term 'St Nick' is also likely to enter the English language as relating to 'a fib' as in a devilish word spoken (pertaining to St Nick the devil).
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xmas come early for st nic layers.
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I had a strong conviction all winter that EXACTLY this sort of thing would happen - only before the Guineas, not the Derby. It would have made much more sense then too.
Anyway, what we need is a journalist with balls - preferably one who is close to retirement snyway - to press O'Brien on the incontrovertible fact that the horse was dead on betfair 24 hours before he was declared to have been found stiff. |
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 New bit of rhyming slang. Throwing a st niki= sicki. |
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Sorry St Nicki=sicki
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lol ... like it thegibbons
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Add 'slight muscle injury'
kirk st. moritz Joined: 04 Feb 07 Replies: 645 01 Jun 10 10:00 'slight setback' and 'stiffness' may be common terms used to indicate the definite target is not now on the agenda 'To make the claims credible, however, this often entails feigning injuries of the said horse, thereby ruling him out of classic races; ' |
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What about this though. If you think Ballydoyle would deliberately scratch a horse they knew wasn't going to live up to the hype, why would they have run him in the Guineas? They really must have believed he was going to win, which does suggest he must have been working brilliantly at some point.
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They know nothing then imo ... need to get some consultants in from this forum to tell them Montjeu's dont win over a mile on fast ground against the top milers each year.
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He was I did see him a week or so ago........I hve no idea whats happend.But as some say thats racing,or "its happend before it will happen again we move on[;)]
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Or as some would say ... what did he ever beat that would give him the form to win a Guineas against the top milers or a Derby when he prefers slow ground. The Arc might be an option with him once Jan Vermeer and co are trounced by Bullet Train in the Derby.
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I hereby declare a new term for the forum -A 'St Nick'launch :
kirk st. moritz 01 Jun 10 08:59 .. is the term to be used when referring to a big mouth Ballydoyle horse who isnt what they say he is but would be a lovely type for breeding if he was. As in geese dressed as swans Kirk and ben10, Can we now change that from A'St.Nick' to a 'Steinbeck'?what strikes me as when SNA was beaten at NMKT within nano seconds you Kirk were pointing out how in your opinion you felt justified in being SNA biggest critic,claiming like ben10 to have seen great promise in Steinbeck,well now perhaps both of you will admit to being sucked in on Steinbecks hype,or perhaps you may both maintain the view that he really is a good horse! |
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Yes a "Steinbeck" is fare more appropriate. SNA was champion 2 year old while Steinbeck has done jack on the racecourse.
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