Horse Antepost
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St Nic is out
Jan Vermeer, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco will run at Epsom
Murtagh is favouring Blanco based on dante win
Jan Vermeer, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco will run at Epsom
Murtagh is favouring Blanco based on dante win
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I'd be surprised if they made this call so early!
You'll need to back this up marve.
You'll need to back this up marve.
I don't expect St Nic to be in the five days decs today but I'd be shocked if Murtagh doesn't ride Jan Vermeer after all the support!
marve Joined: 30 Oct 07
Replies: 1 31 May 10 12:14
I'm waiting for a more reliable source.
Replies: 1 31 May 10 12:14
I'm waiting for a more reliable source.
Aidan O'Brien is responsible for six of the 15 six-day acceptors for the Investec Derby.
All of his big guns stand their ground namely Jan Vermeer, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco.
At First Sight and Bright Horizon complete the sextet.
As expected Godolphin have supplemented Rewilding for the race - along with Buzzword. Al Zir is their third representative at this stage.
Workforce, Azmeel, Bullet Train, Coordinated Cut and Ted Spread spearhead the home defence along with Michael Jarvis' Hot Prospect.
The horses withdrawn on Monday were Ameer, Averroes, Chabal, Gumnd, Mubtassim and Trovare.
All of his big guns stand their ground namely Jan Vermeer, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco.
At First Sight and Bright Horizon complete the sextet.
As expected Godolphin have supplemented Rewilding for the race - along with Buzzword. Al Zir is their third representative at this stage.
Workforce, Azmeel, Bullet Train, Coordinated Cut and Ted Spread spearhead the home defence along with Michael Jarvis' Hot Prospect.
The horses withdrawn on Monday were Ameer, Averroes, Chabal, Gumnd, Mubtassim and Trovare.
It really irritates me that the Sporting Life don't put a time and date on their news items.
Aidan O'Brien is responsible for six of the 15 six-day acceptors for the Investec Derby.
All of his big guns stand their ground namely Jan Vermeer, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco.
At First Sight and Bright Horizon complete the sextet.
As expected Godolphin have supplemented Rewilding for the race - along with Buzzword. Al Zir is their third representative at this stage.
Workforce, Azmeel, Bullet Train, Coordinated Cut and Ted Spread spearhead the home defence along with Michael Jarvis' Hot Prospect.
The horses withdrawn on Monday were Ameer, Averroes, Chabal, Gumnd, Mubtassim and Trovare.
All of his big guns stand their ground namely Jan Vermeer, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco.
At First Sight and Bright Horizon complete the sextet.
As expected Godolphin have supplemented Rewilding for the race - along with Buzzword. Al Zir is their third representative at this stage.
Workforce, Azmeel, Bullet Train, Coordinated Cut and Ted Spread spearhead the home defence along with Michael Jarvis' Hot Prospect.
The horses withdrawn on Monday were Ameer, Averroes, Chabal, Gumnd, Mubtassim and Trovare.
Cheers stake.
CoM - can always look at the Derby market on oddschecker, pp wh etc have been quick to cut out the nr's.
CoM - can always look at the Derby market on oddschecker, pp wh etc have been quick to cut out the nr's.
Aidan did say, and has been saying, they will decide after the last piece of work!!! Which is either tue or wed morning - think its wed, but someone can hopefully confirm!?
rumour guys, its what i have heard from somebody in and around ballydoyle area, again i can only stress this is a rumour and not definite
Am I alone in finding it depressing that beyond the behemoths that are Coolmore and Godolphin, the more 'traditional' home based stables can only muster 6 entrants for a race of this supposed stature?
to the OP,
On your advice i ve laid SNA for my full bank (which is monumental) at over the odds.
Now what?
I await you guidance.
On your advice i ve laid SNA for my full bank (which is monumental) at over the odds.
Now what?
I await you guidance.
The drift on SNA appears to be continuing. Has been matched for small money at 7/1 now on here. Ladbrokes pushed him out this morning. Presume they will make the decision by Wednesday at the latest. Been more intrigue than usual in this derby market.
lets be honest, i wouldnt surprise me if aiden ran st nic even with a problem, when does he ever pull horses out of races in week running up to them, obviously if johnny rides him then price will still be short, but if he were to desert him, well i honestly cant see it happening, if st nic turns up, murtagh will b onboard
Ladbrokes are very close to Ballydoyle. If you have kept up to date with price changes in last week, they have always been on the money, being 11/4 with Jan Vermeer Wednesday when everyone was 4s, and similarly Saturday when everyone was giving 3/1 for St Nicholas Abbey, Ladbrokes gave 4/1. The word is the horse does not look at his best, and may be carrying a knock, as such is unlikely to run, as a blow up in the Derby will hurt potential stud fees, which is the ultimate goal of Coolmore. As such, it is likely that Cape Blanco, Jan Vermeer and Midas Touch will represent Ballydoyle in the Derby, and St Nicholas Abbey, rested until possibly the King George.
Just been matched at 20 on hear, looks like game over for the knickerless won
If SNA has picked up an injury or once again fails to sparkle in his final piece of work on Tues/Weds, then obviously he's likely to be a non-runner and the rumourmongers, cynics and layers will feel vindicated. But given the regard in which SNA is apparently held at Ballydoyle - he is rated superior to everything else in the yard - and the fact that the Derby has been his long-term target for many months, I'm sure that they won't take the decision to scratch him from the race lightly. I'm not a great fan of the Coolmore operation, but I don't buy into the more cynical comments and conspiracy theories that have been appearing on the various threads on here. Aidan O'Brien seems to have been quite open about the situation and has explained that SNA will have one more piece of work before any decisions are taken. I don't believe that they have already decided not to run him. Some people believe that the whole O'Brien/Coolmore outfit is fundamentally dishonest: it's not an opinion I share.
Thank you for that post jamesp!
A sensible and well written piece as always.
The conspiracy theory mongers are having a field day with this topic, and Weapons Amnesty(ffs!).
A sensible and well written piece as always.
The conspiracy theory mongers are having a field day with this topic, and Weapons Amnesty(ffs!).
I agree with the conspiracy theorists and i am one. Would any of the two above posters(daz&James) like to tell me why they said they were waiting to give him another run on Wednesday before making a decision if he's injured ? and why are looney prices for wins & lays going up a few days before Wednesdays session ?
Ladbrokes are very close to Ballydoyle.
one of the biggest myths in racing.
one of the biggest myths in racing.
There are any number of reasons.
People are panicing, people with large liabilities trying to ensure that they don't lose everything if a report at 12 tomorrow in the Racing Post says he's out.
People (with or without inside information) could be preempting the decision, some of the lads in the yard might think he isn't going to run and are taking that chance.
Sure it all look ominous, but if they say they're going to work him one more time and make the decision from there then what have they got to benefit from lying?
I'm pretty sure it isn't the official Coolmore/Ballydoyle Betfair a/c that is putting up all the lays.
People are panicing, people with large liabilities trying to ensure that they don't lose everything if a report at 12 tomorrow in the Racing Post says he's out.
People (with or without inside information) could be preempting the decision, some of the lads in the yard might think he isn't going to run and are taking that chance.
Sure it all look ominous, but if they say they're going to work him one more time and make the decision from there then what have they got to benefit from lying?
I'm pretty sure it isn't the official Coolmore/Ballydoyle Betfair a/c that is putting up all the lays.
I think they have known all along. Call me a cynic but it kind of coincides with his moderate run in the Guineas.
Were the warning signs there .. ?
Were the warning signs there .. ?
"People are panicing, people with large liabilities trying to ensure that they don't lose everything"
TJ - if the lay price is 6/4 - 5/2 for example, people with liabilities only have to lay at that price or above it. If you have a liability, you don't need to place match at 14/1.
TJ - if the lay price is 6/4 - 5/2 for example, people with liabilities only have to lay at that price or above it. If you have a liability, you don't need to place match at 14/1.
Graeme - Aidan said the other day he worked ok, but not as well as he normally does, not that he was injured.
Not sure which point you are getting held up on yourself?
The horse ran as well as could be expected in the 2000G on pedigree. If I were APOB i'd be thinking to myself, why bother telling the public in future? We gave them fare warning that the horse didn't sparkle that morning, what more do they want?
Tbh, the bit that gets me is that people believe that the multi million pound breeding empire that Coolmore is, are laying their horses to make a few quid!
The other bit that annoys me is that we punters cry for more info from big trainers, we get it, and we don't believe it, or say we could have had it 5 minutes earlier!
If you can't handle the ups and downs of Ante Post betting, don't fkn do it imo.
Not sure which point you are getting held up on yourself?
The horse ran as well as could be expected in the 2000G on pedigree. If I were APOB i'd be thinking to myself, why bother telling the public in future? We gave them fare warning that the horse didn't sparkle that morning, what more do they want?
Tbh, the bit that gets me is that people believe that the multi million pound breeding empire that Coolmore is, are laying their horses to make a few quid!
The other bit that annoys me is that we punters cry for more info from big trainers, we get it, and we don't believe it, or say we could have had it 5 minutes earlier!
If you can't handle the ups and downs of Ante Post betting, don't fkn do it imo.
It just seems a bit convenient to me Das.
I dont believe they are laying, that sounds rather juvenile, but I do wonder if they just kept up the hype and bluster until now, through not wanting their dream to die in the wake of Sea The Stars.
I dont believe they are laying, that sounds rather juvenile, but I do wonder if they just kept up the hype and bluster until now, through not wanting their dream to die in the wake of Sea The Stars.
You're talking out of a hole in your ass Das. I have pointed out the lunatic prices being matches against the trainer saying they wouldn't decide until Wednesday. I can't make it any simpler.
Sint - may be so, if he doesn't run you can certainly claim so.
Some people do seem to have short memories, they never show their hand in these races 'til the 48hr decs, even then, the jockey booking can be held back even later.
I think too much is made of silly little issues in racing.
Some people do seem to have short memories, they never show their hand in these races 'til the 48hr decs, even then, the jockey booking can be held back even later.
I think too much is made of silly little issues in racing.
Lemmings Graeme!
Whether he runs or not, they are lemmings!
You think that its just 20-30 ppl in County Tipp laying all those bets all day? Wise up man.
Fwiw i've been opposing this horse all season(Guineas & Derby), but the amount of shyte been spouted on here is a joke!
Whether he runs or not, they are lemmings!
You think that its just 20-30 ppl in County Tipp laying all those bets all day? Wise up man.
Fwiw i've been opposing this horse all season(Guineas & Derby), but the amount of shyte been spouted on here is a joke!
murtagh said before guineas that he hadnt rode sna all summer. so how does he know that the horse is a machine at home. i still cant get over jonny not riding his guineas mount brfore the race. i reckon this horse has had a problem 4 quite a while now
It only takes one person to take all the lays. It's no exactly massive money. Much in the same way as it didn't take many people to take 3 figures sums on Binocular. I don't accuse stables of taking prices, the money is a fart in the ocean to them. I'm simply saying they have told people they will wait and see if he runs when they know he's not going. We will no doubt hear them saying he turned up lame today seeing as the cat is out the bag.
2/1 for a horse which:
a) Hasn't been confirmed for the race yet.
b) Probably hasn't got the best form in the book.
c) May not be ridden by the stable jockey.
Madness...!!!
a) Hasn't been confirmed for the race yet.
b) Probably hasn't got the best form in the book.
c) May not be ridden by the stable jockey.
Madness...!!!
If you dont think it affects the value in antepost books then you arent a player imo... you cant be unless you are extolling it because you are purely a layer.
Nobody seriously thinks the leading lights are laying horses who are out on here but there are plenty think those connected with the stable are. I had quite a few figures laying bets requested way above bookie odds on here for Steinbeck the Guineas before he was declared out and have no doubt the person laying it had inside info on the horse.
It would be better if Mr Logic kept his mouth shut from now on as at least people wouldnt feel misled .. this is not something other trainers should do as generally their horses end up doing what/going for the races they say they are going to with a realistic idea of their ability. It would lead to less gambles for them imo so expect to hear the same sh1t until they go out of business.
downallstar Joined: 08 Apr 06
Replies: 3466 31 May 10 17:09
Graeme - Aidan said the other day he worked ok, but not as well as he normally does, not that he was injured.
Not sure which point you are getting held up on yourself?
The horse ran as well as could be expected in the 2000G on pedigree. If I were APOB i'd be thinking to myself, why bother telling the public in future? We gave them fare warning that the horse didn't sparkle that morning, what more do they want?
Tbh, the bit that gets me is that people believe that the multi million pound breeding empire that Coolmore is, are laying their horses to make a few quid!
The other bit that annoys me is that we punters cry for more info from big trainers, we get it, and we don't believe it, or say we could have had it 5 minutes earlier!
If you can't handle the ups and downs of Ante Post betting, don't fkn do it imo.
Nobody seriously thinks the leading lights are laying horses who are out on here but there are plenty think those connected with the stable are. I had quite a few figures laying bets requested way above bookie odds on here for Steinbeck the Guineas before he was declared out and have no doubt the person laying it had inside info on the horse.
It would be better if Mr Logic kept his mouth shut from now on as at least people wouldnt feel misled .. this is not something other trainers should do as generally their horses end up doing what/going for the races they say they are going to with a realistic idea of their ability. It would lead to less gambles for them imo so expect to hear the same sh1t until they go out of business.
downallstar Joined: 08 Apr 06
Replies: 3466 31 May 10 17:09
Graeme - Aidan said the other day he worked ok, but not as well as he normally does, not that he was injured.
Not sure which point you are getting held up on yourself?
The horse ran as well as could be expected in the 2000G on pedigree. If I were APOB i'd be thinking to myself, why bother telling the public in future? We gave them fare warning that the horse didn't sparkle that morning, what more do they want?
Tbh, the bit that gets me is that people believe that the multi million pound breeding empire that Coolmore is, are laying their horses to make a few quid!
The other bit that annoys me is that we punters cry for more info from big trainers, we get it, and we don't believe it, or say we could have had it 5 minutes earlier!
If you can't handle the ups and downs of Ante Post betting, don't fkn do it imo.
from the price at the moment, looks like its some good info ive been getting doesnt it?
Well thats it Kirk, some ppl want less info(less impact on the market, and their book in turn), some ppl want more info!
Can't have it both ways.
I just feel either way, there is too much shyte talked about it. Nothing wrong with a good debate, but most of it is closer to slander than debate.
Can't have it both ways.
I just feel either way, there is too much shyte talked about it. Nothing wrong with a good debate, but most of it is closer to slander than debate.
St Nic is not injured! He coughed after his last gallop! O'brien should have told the whole truth, and not just part of the truth.
Their press releases lead to gambles on horses who they havent led the public to believe is their definite runner/best chance in the race .. simple as, the announcements only benefit them so they should stfu imo.
Very good point Down - you can't plaese all of the people all of the time!
You're all knocking Graeme, but I couldn't agree more with the bloke.
Done a little bit of research into recent winter book, ante post derby favourites.
EPSOM DERBY
2007- Teofilio - Non runner
2008- New Approach: (declared non runner, removed from ante post lists, only to be re-entered at the 11th hour, and win)
He was replaced as favourite by Twice Over, who was a non runner.
2009- Mastercraftsman : Non runner
KENTUCKY DERBY:
2009: I Want Revenge (scratched morning of race)
2010: Eskendereya (scratched 5 days before race)
I would also like to point out that the ante post favourites for the Auckland Cup(N.Zealand)and Japanese derby were both scratched this year.
It won't be shock of the century if St. Nicholas Abbey is withdrawn.
If you're going to have a bet ante post, be aware that these people are trying to enter your wallet.
Done a little bit of research into recent winter book, ante post derby favourites.
EPSOM DERBY
2007- Teofilio - Non runner
2008- New Approach: (declared non runner, removed from ante post lists, only to be re-entered at the 11th hour, and win)
He was replaced as favourite by Twice Over, who was a non runner.
2009- Mastercraftsman : Non runner
KENTUCKY DERBY:
2009: I Want Revenge (scratched morning of race)
2010: Eskendereya (scratched 5 days before race)
I would also like to point out that the ante post favourites for the Auckland Cup(N.Zealand)and Japanese derby were both scratched this year.
It won't be shock of the century if St. Nicholas Abbey is withdrawn.
If you're going to have a bet ante post, be aware that these people are trying to enter your wallet.
Was Mastercraftsman really favourite for the Derby last Winter?
Oh buy the way, I noticed someone commented on the "myth" that Ladbrokes are close to Ballydoyle.
Just like to point out that J.P Magnier, owner of Coolmore, also owns 3% of ladbrokes, along with... J.P Macmanus!!
Did I hear someone say conflict of interest?
Just like to point out that J.P Magnier, owner of Coolmore, also owns 3% of ladbrokes, along with... J.P Macmanus!!
Did I hear someone say conflict of interest?
Oh by the way, I noticed someone commented on the "myth" that Ladbrokes are close to Ballydoyle.
Just like to point out that J.P Magnier, owner of Coolmore, also owns 3% of ladbrokes, along with... J.P Macmanus!!
Did I hear someone say conflict of interest?
Just like to point out that J.P Magnier, owner of Coolmore, also owns 3% of ladbrokes, along with... J.P Macmanus!!
Did I hear someone say conflict of interest?
M. Tabor has a lot of shares in VC. I would say they have more info on AOB horses.
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